Richie DQ'd for cutting the course in Inners

dolface
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dolface
Edited Date/Time 10/10/2021 7:16am
It's definitely taped weird (see Matt's post below).

Probably not how Jack wanted to win the overall...

Edit: Lukasik also DQ'd, UCI statement: https://admin.enduroworldseries.com/uploads/documents/races/1633185769…



Matt Studdard has video of of the incident:


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JerseyMojo
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JerseyMojo 10/2/2021 9:26am
10/2/2021 9:26am
I think the fact that the use of gates is apparently covered in the rules, only 2 out of the whole field cut the corner and Matt and others reaction makes it pretty clear it’s not on.
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Pat
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Pat 10/2/2021 10:00am
10/2/2021 10:00am
Before seeing the video, I assumed he probably crashed or made a big mistake to miss a gate and that a DSQ is a bit harsh. But after seeing the video, 100% correct decision. If that’s not cheating, then what is?
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andrew.macnaughton 10/2/2021 10:38am
10/2/2021 10:38am
Feel bad for him, clearly a shitty mistake. No one would try and deliberately cheat right in front of the finish line in sight of the announcer, right? Can't really do much but DSQ or some kind of time penalty regardless of who it is.
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mfoga
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mfoga 10/2/2021 12:12pm
10/2/2021 12:12pm
andrew.macnaughton wrote:
Feel bad for him, clearly a shitty mistake. No one would try and deliberately cheat right in front of the finish line in sight of the...
Feel bad for him, clearly a shitty mistake. No one would try and deliberately cheat right in front of the finish line in sight of the announcer, right? Can't really do much but DSQ or some kind of time penalty regardless of who it is.
I think a time penalty would have much more appropriate.
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dannyboybiker 10/2/2021 12:51pm
10/2/2021 12:51pm
The rule here clearly isn't fit for purpose. Rude and Lukasik have been punished in the same way as if they had cut out a huge switchback by riding through the tape and then through the tape again back onto the track. If the EWS is going to start using slalom gates on the track (which they shouldn't anyway) they should have a slalom like time penalty. Having any rider disqualified from a whole weekend of racing just for missing one gate is a joke.
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noideamtber 10/2/2021 1:08pm
10/2/2021 1:08pm
for the 1 second he gained, take 10 away. easy and doesnt ruin the racing.
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tacklingdummy 10/2/2021 2:15pm
10/2/2021 2:15pm
Obviously a mistake. Both of the riders would not deliberately cheat right before the finish where all the spectators gather. Either just didn't read the rulebook or just wasn't thinking about it. Just give them a time penalty. Disqualification is dumb because it makes the last race not as good especially given how Moir and Rude have been battling for first all season.
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dannyboybiker 10/2/2021 2:27pm
10/2/2021 2:27pm
Seems they could've just given a time penalty but the UCI commissaire chose to disqualify them.
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bulletbass man
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bulletbass man 10/2/2021 7:51pm
10/2/2021 7:51pm
dannyboybiker wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/10/02/11485/s1200_Screenshot_2021_10_02_at_22.18.37.jpg[/img] Seems they could've just given a time penalty but the UCI commissaire chose to disqualify them.
Seems they could've just given a time penalty but the UCI commissaire chose to disqualify them.
What a shame. Ews has been a clusterfuck the past few seasons from a fan perspective. The growing pains are definitely showing. They should really consider taking a step back and just being core as possible. I’ve gone from watching basically all the ews content I could find to basically only watching wyn tv and the occasional recap. I don’t have their numbers but if I had to guess I would say viewership is down when theoretically it should be exploding (out local enduro series free big time with COVID). I know I’m not the only one not digging the format of the past two season. Sure 2020 was a wash but 2021 is purely at the fault of decision making behind the scenes.

There is no doubt the mistake is 100 percent rude’s. But course tape exists and works for a reason. And a time penalty would’ve been way more appropriate.

Just disappointing. Hopefully they work out a better format and coverage going forward. I used to enjoy ews coverage as much as not race broadcast dh coverage. Definitely don’t feel that way currently. The dh coverage has only gotten better and better while ews has taken steps back.
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Verbl Kint
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Verbl Kint 10/2/2021 7:52pm
10/2/2021 7:52pm
Does anyone know what Richie's time would have been had he not been DSQ'd?



The UCI goes down hard on course cutting. Time penalties are rarely given, and when these are given, it's usually because the rider crashed and had no way to go back inside the course without taking a short cut through course tape or course markers.

I don't think Rude and Lukasik intentionally wanted to cheat. It's probably a similar case to when MVDP went OTB in the Olympics. The rider gets so focused for the race that communiques or team orders are not given the attention needed.
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FqqTBawL
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FqqTBawL 10/2/2021 8:37pm
10/2/2021 8:37pm
Verbl Kint wrote:
Does anyone know what Richie's time would have been had he not been DSQ'd? The UCI goes down hard on course cutting. Time penalties are rarely...
Does anyone know what Richie's time would have been had he not been DSQ'd?



The UCI goes down hard on course cutting. Time penalties are rarely given, and when these are given, it's usually because the rider crashed and had no way to go back inside the course without taking a short cut through course tape or course markers.

I don't think Rude and Lukasik intentionally wanted to cheat. It's probably a similar case to when MVDP went OTB in the Olympics. The rider gets so focused for the race that communiques or team orders are not given the attention needed.
Rude was 2nd fastest. 2.5sec ish behind jack.
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anotherbikerguy 10/2/2021 8:57pm
10/2/2021 8:57pm
Verbl Kint wrote:
Does anyone know what Richie's time would have been had he not been DSQ'd? The UCI goes down hard on course cutting. Time penalties are rarely...
Does anyone know what Richie's time would have been had he not been DSQ'd?



The UCI goes down hard on course cutting. Time penalties are rarely given, and when these are given, it's usually because the rider crashed and had no way to go back inside the course without taking a short cut through course tape or course markers.

I don't think Rude and Lukasik intentionally wanted to cheat. It's probably a similar case to when MVDP went OTB in the Olympics. The rider gets so focused for the race that communiques or team orders are not given the attention needed.
FqqTBawL wrote:
Rude was 2nd fastest. 2.5sec ish behind jack.
Believe it was a 3:29 (4 seconds back from Jack, 2nd place) from some screenshots of preliminary results.
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grambo
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grambo 10/3/2021 12:55am
10/3/2021 12:55am
Clearly a mistake (not intentional), but also clearly in the rules to DSQ. The problem I have is it's just goofy ass taping. Why not run a strand of tape from the edge of the track to the gate? Have we seen gates used in EWS before? Certainly never in DH (at least modern times/UCI races).
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mfoga
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mfoga 10/3/2021 7:42am
10/3/2021 7:42am
Ot just tape the gates. They are saying the other tape is for fans. Then double tape it like you know DH does and sometimes it's triple taped, fans media and course. What was that few % of plastic tape too much? Also maybe make sure you fix the gates when they get hit. The first one is a flag and depending on the wind more or less visible
tombola33 10/3/2021 8:40am
10/3/2021 8:40am
Check out Matt Studdards insta story. He’s posted an official message from Mr Ball specifically saying do not cut the gates! Someone somewhere needs to have Rudes back when it comes to team briefings. A good manager makes sure that their rider knows EXACTLY what they can and cannot do. Either Rudes arrogance allows him to think he can take a chance and not get caught or someone is letting him down. If I was a team manager I would be briefing my riders regularly so all they need to worry about is riding.
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owl-x
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owl-x 10/6/2021 3:35pm
10/6/2021 3:35pm
tombola33 wrote:
Check out Matt Studdards insta story. He’s posted an official message from Mr Ball specifically saying do not cut the gates! Someone somewhere needs to have...
Check out Matt Studdards insta story. He’s posted an official message from Mr Ball specifically saying do not cut the gates! Someone somewhere needs to have Rudes back when it comes to team briefings. A good manager makes sure that their rider knows EXACTLY what they can and cannot do. Either Rudes arrogance allows him to think he can take a chance and not get caught or someone is letting him down. If I was a team manager I would be briefing my riders regularly so all they need to worry about is riding.
you got that, for the IG-deficient?
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bartt 10/7/2021 1:54am
10/7/2021 1:54am
Despite the Disqualification or time penalty discussion, can someone explain why there is taping AND gates? What's the point for double markups - sorry if this is not the right word, english is not my native tongue-?
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Eoin
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Eoin 10/7/2021 5:07am
10/7/2021 5:07am
bartt wrote:
Despite the Disqualification or time penalty discussion, can someone explain why there is taping AND gates? What's the point for double markups - sorry if this...
Despite the Disqualification or time penalty discussion, can someone explain why there is taping AND gates? What's the point for double markups - sorry if this is not the right word, english is not my native tongue-?
The tape was for the spectators, the gates for the racers. In DH they have 2 sets of tape to create a safe zone, that isn't really realistic for an enduro course. They knew people where likely to crash so used the gate system + tape.

I agree it is not a great setup from the organisers, and they could have been more flexible on the punishement. But definitely not a 10s or even 30s penalty, doing that could send the message that cutting the course in the more remote areas might be worthwhile due to the low risk + low penalty. Give a proper 2 or 5 minute penalty: the rider gets to ride, can see where they would have ended up, but doesn't score any meaningful points towards the overall.
bike_futurist 10/7/2021 6:03am
10/7/2021 6:03am
richie's a bit dubitable character so giving him a slightly harsher penalty resonates with my ethics
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JerseyMojo
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JerseyMojo 10/7/2021 6:12am
10/7/2021 6:12am
I thought I heard somewhere that DQ was the only penalty for course cutting in the rules?
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dolface 10/7/2021 6:38am
10/7/2021 6:38am
JerseyMojo wrote:
I thought I heard somewhere that DQ was the only penalty for course cutting in the rules?
See dannyboybiker's post above
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jonkranked 10/7/2021 6:57am
10/7/2021 6:57am
Eoin wrote:
The tape was for the spectators, the gates for the racers. In DH they have 2 sets of tape to create a safe zone, that isn't...
The tape was for the spectators, the gates for the racers. In DH they have 2 sets of tape to create a safe zone, that isn't really realistic for an enduro course. They knew people where likely to crash so used the gate system + tape.

I agree it is not a great setup from the organisers, and they could have been more flexible on the punishement. But definitely not a 10s or even 30s penalty, doing that could send the message that cutting the course in the more remote areas might be worthwhile due to the low risk + low penalty. Give a proper 2 or 5 minute penalty: the rider gets to ride, can see where they would have ended up, but doesn't score any meaningful points towards the overall.
yea, the taping setup wasn't the best. they did have a line of taping running to the initial gates, but not subsequent gates. could have been more consistent.

if the intention was truly to cheat, that was the dumbest possible spot to have done it. as far as a penalty, short of the full dsq per the rulebook, i think taking the slowest finishers time and adding something like 30s or 60s to it would have been a reasonable alternative.
owl-x
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owl-x 10/7/2021 8:21am
10/7/2021 8:21am
Why leave room between the inside tape and the inside gate, if the intent was to keep spectators safe? The only crash would be a slippery low-side to the outside.

That the had tape to the first pair of these internal gates is all I need to see. That they came back the next day (as has been reported) and fixed it shows that they agree something was ambiguous. RR has an argument, even if he’s decided it’s not worth it. UCI sucks, this much is clear.
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jonkranked 10/7/2021 8:42am
10/7/2021 8:42am
owl-x wrote:
Why leave room between the inside tape and the inside gate, if the intent was to keep spectators safe? The only crash would be a slippery...
Why leave room between the inside tape and the inside gate, if the intent was to keep spectators safe? The only crash would be a slippery low-side to the outside.

That the had tape to the first pair of these internal gates is all I need to see. That they came back the next day (as has been reported) and fixed it shows that they agree something was ambiguous. RR has an argument, even if he’s decided it’s not worth it. UCI sucks, this much is clear.
wait they fixed it the next day? this is the first i've heard of that, what exactly did the fix consist of?
owl-x
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owl-x 10/7/2021 9:22am
10/7/2021 9:22am
owl-x wrote:
Why leave room between the inside tape and the inside gate, if the intent was to keep spectators safe? The only crash would be a slippery...
Why leave room between the inside tape and the inside gate, if the intent was to keep spectators safe? The only crash would be a slippery low-side to the outside.

That the had tape to the first pair of these internal gates is all I need to see. That they came back the next day (as has been reported) and fixed it shows that they agree something was ambiguous. RR has an argument, even if he’s decided it’s not worth it. UCI sucks, this much is clear.
jonkranked wrote:
wait they fixed it the next day? this is the first i've heard of that, what exactly did the fix consist of?
yeah i've read (somewhere in this madness) that the spaces between the gates were taped the next day...which would absolutely be absolute bull absolute shit, if you're gonna DQ riders claiming they're in violation and then change whatever...

to me, that there was tape across the first pair of gates and then not on the next (3?) shows there's something different about those gates.

But who knows, maybe after taping an entire course, you just get tired and go home instead of putting in 21 more feet to plug these holes LOL
Batts
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Batts 10/7/2021 10:48am
10/7/2021 10:48am
I just watched Bernard Kerr's finals day and there was definitely tape put from the flags to the side on the corner where Richie cut.
- only 2 riders did this out of all the Pro Men and Women. So I guess you could say that it was obvious not to go outside the flags.
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jonkranked
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jonkranked 10/7/2021 11:23am
10/7/2021 11:23am
Batts wrote:
I just watched Bernard Kerr's finals day and there was definitely tape put from the flags to the side on the corner where Richie cut. -...
I just watched Bernard Kerr's finals day and there was definitely tape put from the flags to the side on the corner where Richie cut.
- only 2 riders did this out of all the Pro Men and Women. So I guess you could say that it was obvious not to go outside the flags.
if it was obvious, then why did they feel the need to fix it for the second day?
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owl-x
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owl-x 10/7/2021 3:53pm
10/7/2021 3:53pm
I want an interview with the person who’s okay with both the DQ’s and the tape update.
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Randomscruff 10/7/2021 8:05pm
10/7/2021 8:05pm
dannyboybiker wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/10/02/11485/s1200_Screenshot_2021_10_02_at_22.18.37.jpg[/img] Seems they could've just given a time penalty but the UCI commissaire chose to disqualify them.
Seems they could've just given a time penalty but the UCI commissaire chose to disqualify them.
bulletbass man wrote:
What a shame. Ews has been a clusterfuck the past few seasons from a fan perspective. The growing pains are definitely showing. They should really consider...
What a shame. Ews has been a clusterfuck the past few seasons from a fan perspective. The growing pains are definitely showing. They should really consider taking a step back and just being core as possible. I’ve gone from watching basically all the ews content I could find to basically only watching wyn tv and the occasional recap. I don’t have their numbers but if I had to guess I would say viewership is down when theoretically it should be exploding (out local enduro series free big time with COVID). I know I’m not the only one not digging the format of the past two season. Sure 2020 was a wash but 2021 is purely at the fault of decision making behind the scenes.

There is no doubt the mistake is 100 percent rude’s. But course tape exists and works for a reason. And a time penalty would’ve been way more appropriate.

Just disappointing. Hopefully they work out a better format and coverage going forward. I used to enjoy ews coverage as much as not race broadcast dh coverage. Definitely don’t feel that way currently. The dh coverage has only gotten better and better while ews has taken steps back.
Perhaps they could engage the Fest Series guys on how to be more core. I'm with you on the viewing habits. Used to devour any EWS content I could watch and now I'm pretty much just watching WynTV. The live DH coverage, with Cathro, Elliott and Trace adding extra PB or RB content, eats EWS for breakfast.
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