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Re: Spoomer ca 2017. Anyone gone from 29er back to 27.5?

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8/1/2021 6:19 AM

Since I am considering a new bike(b/c i went too long and slack) I came across a thread here from 2017 where Spoomer but forward this question. Now that 29er have become really good and sort of the norm for enduro and the one-bike kind of setup.

What does this landscape look like today? Anyone going back to smaller bikes? Reach and or wheels?

I am kind of leaning towards a shorter bike with smaller wheels, something like the GG Megatrail or a Starling Swoop.

I live in remote Norway and dont really have any chance of demoing bikes. So input i Vital!

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8/9/2021 1:35 AM

I just went through a load of back to back demo bikes, like 4 in week. I thought they were fun but the 29er felt the safest and by far the quickest.

Caveat - they were all ebikes and my current enduro and hardtail are slack 29. The 27s felt fun, but also less planted.

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8/9/2021 2:54 AM

I was a sort of "anti"-29ers back in the days (way before 2017...). But always loved slack and not-so-long-let's-say-just-at-my-size bikes. So now I'm on a 483mm normalized reach ("normalized reach" being the virtual reach at 600mm of stack, it's a simpler and more effective way to compare bikes), 63,4° headangle... And of course, 29" wheels. With its 78° seatangle and 440mm chainstays it's the better and easier climber I ever had (at more than 17kg).

To answer directly : no, if I'd to buy a new bike the reach would be the same. It'll be maybe a touch slacker. And I'll stick with 29" wheels or maybe mullet (I touch the rear wheel from time to time with my butt. That's annoying.).

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8/9/2021 3:14 AM

Can't give a perfect comparison, but I have a full 29er bike and used to have a full 27.5 ebike. Swapped many things around during various experiments with mullets on most bikes, the single most obvious change for me was going back from a mullet setup to a full 27.5 bike on the ebike, bike felt much more unstable and it was a clear performance hinderer.

So now I mostly ride my mullet ebike, but would go for a full 29er option if stocks and prices were reasonable which they are not. Undeniable that there is extra grip with the 29er wheel, but admitedly harder to find bikes with shortish chainstays to keep the bike fun.

Note that I am a racer, but ride in a very playful manner (constant bunny hops, nose turns, weird lines), never had any issue with 29ers not feeling fun, but I am careful to pick bikes with a geometry that suits me (not gigantic reach, medium chainstays ~440mm).

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8/9/2021 3:23 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/9/2021 3:24 AM

I went from long 29er (500 reach, i'm 180cm) to shorter 29er (470) to mullet and I just built up a v3 5010 as a fun / jump bike.

There was a full on enduro fad within my riding group few years back but now fun is back in fashion


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8/9/2021 3:24 AM

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8/9/2021 8:17 AM

ironically, this email landed from Cotic today - they're no longer producing the 27.5 Rocket
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Today marks the end of Rocket sales. Our original droplink bike, launched with 26" wheels and 150mm travel in 2012 to much acclaim, morphed through four generations to grow 27.5" wheels, pioneer Longshot geometry, and into the current 165mm travel beast.

We know there are lots of you out there who love your 27.5" wheels. We do too, but as with any business sometimes market forces and commercial reality to have to make a decision for you, and that's what has happend here. Whilst we have sold many hundreds of our 29er droplink models in the last two years, since the end of 2018, 27.5" droplink bike sales have been a fraction of this.

Even with the current Gen4 UK made frame, as we still get our rear ends for these frames made in Taiwan, there are certain minimum order quantities we have to meet. Unfortunately it got to the point where we were selling less than a full batch of rear ends per year, so at that point we have to stop.

It's been quite a ride, but realistically you guys have spoken, and you are choosing 29" wheels for your bike much more often than not.
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email continues, but above was the relevant bit for this forum topic

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8/9/2021 8:37 AM

I tried going back to 275 a few times and sold each of those bikes within a few weeks. They hung up way too much in the rocks which I did not enjoy at all. This is probably terrain dependent, but we have a lot of chunder where I ride so I am not really tempted any longer.

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8/9/2021 10:01 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/9/2021 10:12 AM

vweb wrote:

I was a sort of "anti"-29ers back in the days (way before 2017...). But always loved slack and ...more

Nice to see my Normalized Reach dimension popping up in the wild! A suggestion, though: 600 mm is a very low stack. The stack you choose matters (a little), so it's best to choose one roughly in the middle of the bikes you're comparing.

The other change in geometry metrics I'm pushing within the industry is dynamic geometry. It's too complicated to publish in a simple geometry chart, but expect to see more discussion of it in the next few years. For consumers, an ideal tool will be for manufacturers to have a "slope slider" tool on a geometry chart that allows users to choose the slope of the terrain and generate a chart for the time-averaged geometry at that inclination.

EDIT: I should expand on my point: Since bikes with smaller wheels often have a little more travel, they suffer from slightly more change in dynamic geometry. It's not huge, but if we can feel a few percent difference in wheel size, we can also feel a half-degree more steepening and slackening of the angles due to differences in chassis pitch from the difference in travel. That's not a direct result from differences in wheel size, but it's a common result of how the bikes are designed (ex. equivalent models with 27.5" wheels and 29" wheels may have 170 mm and 160 mm of travel, respectively).

Anyway, back to the wheel size debate ...

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8/9/2021 10:55 AM

Kind of. I went from 29 to 27.5x2.8.

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8/9/2021 11:23 AM

I'm 183 cm tall and I went from a size L 2017 Trek Remedy (27.5", reach 463) to a XL Orbea Occam (29", 500 reach) as I wanted more room in the cockpit and got caught up in the long bikes-fad. Crashed badly first few rides as I kept washing the front end before I got into the adjusted body position that was required and had to be conscious of it on pretty much all rides.
Had the Orbea for a year but sold it this year and recently replaced with a 2021 SC Hightower V2 (29", 473 reach) that feels so much better. It just corners amazingly compared to the barge feeling of the Orbea, and that's a bike that's praised for it's cornering ability so I blame the size. It did feel awesome in high speed open stuff, but I rarely get to ride that sort of terrain in the south of Sweden..

I also have a 2020 Scott Gambler with wagon wheels. I did try a few dh runs with a mullet setup on that bike, but really didn't like it in techy DH at least. I didn't change anything but the wheel size though, could possibly have been better with changing the flip chip for corrected geo, but the smaller wheel felt like it kicked me around a lot more and had a lot less traction. I have a set of 27.5 DT EX511 rims I've been meaning to build up as a spare wheelset for the Gambler for park laps and jump lines, but after riding the 29er in jump trails I'm not sure it's necessary as I can whip the wagon wheels good enough..

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8/9/2021 11:45 AM

I have had a 29er since 2017. Evil The Following, then the Wreckoning, then an Ibis ripmo AF. Now my trail bike is a Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg. My local trails are extremely flat and rocky and not perfectly suited to the GG. However, if you like cornering the 275 just feels infinitely better and easier to corner. The Ripmo AF is an amazing bike and feels great for most things. But I just cannot deny the cornering of a 275. I even went so far as to get a 26 Kona supreme and the cornering is even better! So in a way, I did go back for my usual rides and daily driver.

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8/9/2021 12:13 PM

I dropped back down to 27.5 after being on a 29 (SB5.5) for 3 years. The primary reason was to maximize the fun factor during every ride. I’m 59, so outright speed isn’t as important to me any more.

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8/9/2021 12:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/9/2021 12:21 PM

derelict wrote:

Kind of. I went from 29 to 27.5x2.8.

What are your thoughts on wider tires vs. larger diameter? Any thoughts on how you might like wider tires and larger diameter? Maybe some mix-and-match of these options for the front vs. the rear?

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8/9/2021 12:23 PM

I would say much of that question depends on where you ride. If you have long, fast sections with good site lines then the 29er will probably be more rewarding, as you can really capitalize on maintaining speed. But in more varied terrain with constant changes in speed and direction, I still think the 27.5 is easier to ride fast, because it requires less effort to scrub/generate speed and direction changes are more immediate.

I'm currently on a Banshee Spitfire v3 27.5 and its an absolute riot in the PNW. I have a 30mm rim with 2.5 WT DHF Grip EXO up front, 25mm rim with 2.4 non-WT Hi Roller 2 Terra EXO in back, 150 Pike Ult with 37mm offset and a 50mm stem. I'm a smig over 6 ft and on a large (470mm reach). I can and have ridden longer, but I struggled to weight the front wheel in anything but fast straight lines. Bike is in the low geo position (65 HA, 437mm CS). It has near infinite front end grip, but I can comfortably flick the rear into a bit of oversteer when I ask for it. It feels so connected and intuitive to ride. But its not going to be the safe, stable feel that a lot of riders seem to want these days. It will move around, but when you understand that, you can actually use it to get through tight corners faster. I like a lively, playful bike (different than poppy mind you) that makes me feel like I'm the rider not a passenger. So far its been a great fit. Its still fun on smoother/easier trails but has impressive depth of grip and control when I push it into 'big bike' terrain. Its also been great to ride alloy again: feels very forgiving, I don't care as much about scratching it, and if it ever cracks I can recycle it.

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8/9/2021 1:14 PM

derelict wrote:

Kind of. I went from 29 to 27.5x2.8.

R-M-R wrote:

What are your thoughts on wider tires vs. larger diameter? Any thoughts on how you might like wider tires and larger diameter? ...more

It all depends upon how you ride. In my area, the Mid Atlantic (Va, Md, WV), we dont really have burmed out smooth pedaling single track or hardpack. 29 was nice. It did what I needed. The 27.5 smashes over rocks, roots, and more importantly, pushes and floats through mud. I simply do not get bogged down. Once moving, I do not notice any real speed difference. I find it easier to boost over things than with 29" tires and I also notice a much smoother ride over rough terrain. The extra cushion from the tire itself is key there.

Downsides is that when compared with the 29, it requires a little more effort to get rolling as there is more rolling resistance there and if you lean hard into a corner with lower pressures, you can get a little squidgy from sidewall flex but I have learned to deal with that by approaching the corner a little differently. The only other downside is tire options. In my size, there arent too many. The ones that are available are quite good so it is not THAT much of a downside.

The bike is a 2018 Devinci Marshall carbon.

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8/9/2021 1:55 PM

I was on the 29er trail bike idea with the first Tallboy but also ran an angle set to make it a lil more aggressive. Went through a few more 29ers( stumpjumper evo, spider 29) but my HT was always a 29er. Then went to 27.5 with a trance and reign. Now back on 29er and don’t see that every changing.

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8/9/2021 2:04 PM

derelict wrote:

Kind of. I went from 29 to 27.5x2.8.

R-M-R wrote:

What are your thoughts on wider tires vs. larger diameter? Any thoughts on how you might like wider tires and larger diameter? ...more

derelict wrote:

It all depends upon how you ride. In my area, the Mid Atlantic (Va, Md, WV), we dont really have burmed out smooth pedaling ...more

Thanks for the feedback. I've been testing 29" × 2.5" - 2.85" (actual casing widths, not the often "optimistic" nominal widths). Similar results with the larger casings being very beneficial in rough and/or loose conditions, and mildly detrimental on hardpack. Minor modifications to the casing and the aspect ratio could retain the benefits and reduce the detriments.

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8/9/2021 2:50 PM

Ride2day wrote:

I dropped back down to 27.5 after being on a 29 (SB5.5) for 3 years. The primary reason was to maximize the fun factor during ...more

Same here. I've got a full 29" Demo DH bike for racing. But I ride a 27.5" for trails. I don't look at my Strava times any more. I just try to use every single inch of trail on trail rides...whether it's a little root or rock to pop off of or weaving and cutting a straight section of trail to do cutties. 29" trail bike might clock a faster Strava, but it bores me to death to just have a shorter ride.

On the DH bike, that 29" rear wheel eats my ass up when I try to tweak around and have fun.

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Trouble Maker. Here to spit truth in the form of sarcasm.

8/9/2021 3:44 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/9/2021 3:44 PM

I've never been a 275 guy, although I had a Giant Glory for a season and that was fun. A buddy of mine recently went from Smuggler (29) to Patrol (275) to an Offering (29) and swears he'll never go back to 275. Another buddy did the opposite, Process (275) > Enduro (29) > Megatrail (275) and swears he'll never go back to 29.
Both riders rip their respective size bike.

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8/9/2021 11:48 PM

26 to 29 to 27x5 to 29+ to 29. A couple of weeks ago, tried my 27 DH bike that I hadn't been on in a couple of years, and while smooth as buttah over the braking bumps and fast in the corners, felt sketchy AF at speed and in the air. Sold the 27 DH today in favour of the 29 trail bike. 29 #Enduro is up next.

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Hung over, off the back.

8/10/2021 1:40 AM

I don't know if I'd be able to tell the difference in a properly controlled test. I do have a frame that's designed for both sizes so maybe one day when I've run out of things to spend money on, I'll buy a wheelset just to test the theory. Or "borrow" one from a friend with a 27.5"...

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8/10/2021 2:19 AM

I tried most of the options for wheel sizes etc before settling on my current bike. I ended up sticking with 27.5.
What I took away from it was, yes the 29 definitely felt a lot more controlled, planted and stable especially at speed, it also felt a bit more consistent, there was absolutely no denying it.
That said, I'm pretty short, suffered a bit too much ass buzzing for my liking and I felt I lost too much nimbleness, playfulness and "feel", and when it comes down to it I'm just out there for a bit of fun and I whilst technically the 29 is probably "better", I think this time round the balance for me was more towards the fun side.
If I was racing then I would likely have made a very different decision.

I feel the jump from 26 to 27.5 was bigger for me than that of 27.5 to 29. I've yet to commit fully to a 29" setup, but it is only a matter of time I guess. I'm comfortable with my choice of 27.5 for this bike though. I will revisit the same question in a couple of years time.

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8/10/2021 2:33 AM

I went from 29" back to 26"!! Then to 27" but only cos no 26" bikes..... My perfect trail and/or DH bike would be 27/26" mini mullet

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Callous Hands an Bloody Shins since 1979

8/10/2021 2:51 AM

I made the switch back to 650B recently and I regretted doing it. I went from a carbon Transition sentinel V1 to a Commencal clash. I thought the bigger travel would compensate for the lack of a bigger wheel but the first thing I noticed was the lack of grip in the turns and faster stuff compared to the 29er set up. Grip to me is a big part of confidence and loosing that confidence on rough sections and faster stuff made it clear to me that I made a mistake. I sold the clash after a few months and got onto the mullet train and I must say that I like it better than both the full 650B and the 29er model too! I'm about 6ft tall and 180 lbs for reference.

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8/10/2021 2:52 AM

SB14 wrote:

Since I am considering a new bike(b/c i went too long and slack) I came across a thread here from 2017 where Spoomer but ...more

i ride on 26" bike

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8/10/2021 2:54 AM

sspomer wrote:

ironically, this email landed from Cotic today - they're no longer producing the 27.5 Rocket
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Today marks the end ...more

I still have fun on my 26"

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8/10/2021 2:57 AM

pinkrobe wrote:

26 to 29 to 27x5 to 29+ to 29. A couple of weeks ago, tried my 27 DH bike that I hadn't been on in a couple of years, and ...more

I remained at my faithful 26, when before there were only them all these stories did not exist, for me the new wheel sizes are just a question of marketing, I tried the new wheels they do not give me any emotion

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8/10/2021 2:58 AM

Jonzilla wrote:

I went from 29" back to 26"!! Then to 27" but only cos no 26" bikes..... My perfect trail and/or DH bike would be 27/26" mini ...more

26/24 is more better

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8/10/2021 3:41 AM

R-M-R wrote:

What are your thoughts on wider tires vs. larger diameter? Any thoughts on how you might like wider tires and larger diameter? ...more

derelict wrote:

It all depends upon how you ride. In my area, the Mid Atlantic (Va, Md, WV), we dont really have burmed out smooth pedaling ...more

R-M-R wrote:

Thanks for the feedback. I've been testing 29" 2.5" - 2.85" (actual casing widths, not the often "optimistic" nominal ...more

what sort of riding do you have in mind with 29 x 2,8"?

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