Dual crown forks in enduro soon?

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8/24/2018 10:25 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/24/2018 10:26 AM

Just a thought for the masses. With the direction of enduro racing, and the lack of barspins/x-ups among most of the trail crowd, is it reasonable to think we will see some dual crown forks aimed at trail use?

As a bigger guy, I can absolutely feel a large difference in flex when comparing a single crown to a dual crown fork. I also feel bike weight is something we've sort of figured out. My race bike is somewhere between 31-33 pounds. An extra pound for a dual crown fork wouldn't matter one way or another, especially if performance is better.

The other really big advantage I see to this is one could much more easily play with offset. Swapping crowns is a lot easier than swapping uppers. Plus you could give the rider the ability to play with head angle (via where the fork sits in the crown)

And yeah, I know, Specialized did this way back when and it failed miserably.

Thoughts?

Will we see dual crown forks aimed at enduro?

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8/24/2018 11:21 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/24/2018 11:26 AM

there was this (always wanted a judy XLC).


and sort of this but not really...


seriously though, could prob see it happening but aren't some the switchbacks in france too tight? lack of barspins on EWS is a shame too.

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8/24/2018 11:50 AM

I think a lot of turns are too tight and pedalling uphill with a dual crown sucks (knees hit the upper crown).


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8/24/2018 12:40 PM

I don't see this happening for real anytime soon, but some are already doing it:



Only upside I see for a double crown is to always have your stem perfectly aligned with the wheel

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8/24/2018 12:58 PM

Was actually thinking about it last week. When you see the lack of rigidity a simple crown fork faces and the pace pro guys are going at (and even regular guys as there is now more people only owning a enduro bike and riding it on parks and dh tracks) it would make great sense of having a double crown fork on enduro bikes.
Just grab the front wheel between your legs and press at the extremity of your handlebar. The flex is mad on a simple crown fork.

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8/24/2018 1:22 PM

That flex might not be the worst thing... Save some fatigue and vibration.

Remember the first gen Fox 40's? They were too stiff. Fox made the second gen ones flexier on purpose.

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8/24/2018 2:04 PM

The new Capra is dual-crown approved (only the carbon version). YT made the top tube/headtube area to the same spec as the Tues, to be able to handle stanchion impacts on the frame. Bryan Regnier runs his that way at the moment it seems:

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8/24/2018 3:17 PM

The Enduro use to have a dual crown fork

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8/24/2018 4:25 PM

Yes but back then people didn't really embrace that choice. Will they now?

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8/24/2018 5:12 PM

mfoga wrote:

The Enduro use to have a dual crown fork

from jeff's post above - "And yeah, I know, Specialized did this way back when and it failed miserably."

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8/24/2018 6:10 PM

bikeman64 wrote:

Was actually thinking about it last week. When you see the lack of rigidity a simple crown fork faces and the pace pro guys are going at (and even regular guys as there is now more people only owning a enduro bike and riding it on parks and dh tracks) it would make great sense of having a double crown fork on enduro bikes.
Just grab the front wheel between your legs and press at the extremity of your handlebar. The flex is mad on a simple crown fork.

The thing is by doing this you really don't "measure" fork flex. Your looking a the resulting flex of:

-the bar itself
-bar/stem interface
-stem torsional rigidity
-stem/pivot/headset interface
-frame/headset interface
-fork itself
-fork/hub interface (plus bearing play inside the hub)
-wheel rigidity

Now some of those are obviously preposterous ( I mean who is really going to feel a stem flexing ) but some are very real. Look for example at Intend stiffmaster headset, according to some pink media review, it plays a big role on this flex...

So my point is I don't think most people need a double crown fork, you can first work on different axis to reduce flex. And as it was said before, a little flex is a good thing to maintain grip and limit fatigue.

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8/24/2018 6:20 PM

Back before Enduro. when I just called it riding trails, my trail riding bikes always had a chain guide and a triple crown fork. Even back when they were a 48 tooth MRP and a DHO. Did my longest ride ever on that one, a Heckler. It was the Turkey Burn, A group ride put on by the Warrior Society. 68 miles up and down Saddleback Mountain twice. I think all those trails just burned.

Or I'd just go out and ride trails on my Super 8. Just stand up to climb.

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8/24/2018 6:22 PM

Hey Push. You guys should just kill it and make the perfect double triple enduro fork. Just sayin'.

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8/24/2018 8:34 PM

bikeman64 wrote:

Was actually thinking about it last week. When you see the lack of rigidity a simple crown fork faces and the pace pro guys are going at (and even regular guys as there is now more people only owning a enduro bike and riding it on parks and dh tracks) it would make great sense of having a double crown fork on enduro bikes.
Just grab the front wheel between your legs and press at the extremity of your handlebar. The flex is mad on a simple crown fork.

Rems wrote:

The thing is by doing this you really don't "measure" fork flex. Your looking a the resulting flex of:

-the bar itself
-bar/stem interface
-stem torsional rigidity
-stem/pivot/headset interface
-frame/headset interface
-fork itself
-fork/hub interface (plus bearing play inside the hub)
-wheel rigidity

Now some of those are obviously preposterous ( I mean who is really going to feel a stem flexing ) but some are very real. Look for example at Intend stiffmaster headset, according to some pink media review, it plays a big role on this flex...

So my point is I don't think most people need a double crown fork, you can first work on different axis to reduce flex. And as it was said before, a little flex is a good thing to maintain grip and limit fatigue.

You are probably right, but I do feel that all of that is highly dependent of the fact of having or not a dual crown fork.
On heavy and rough braking zones, I'm not a big fan of the flex I can feel with my single crown fork. That's an example of where I'd like to have more rigidity.

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8/24/2018 11:13 PM

Dave_Camp wrote:

I think a lot of turns are too tight and pedalling uphill with a dual crown sucks (knees hit the upper crown).


Tight turns can be overcome at speed with a little sliding. At low speed nose manualing or pivoting can overcome that. So no reason why a you can't use a dual crown. Also if you are hitting the upper crown with your knees then your bike is way too short!

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8/24/2018 11:20 PM

I recently switched my 160mm Yari Fast Shox 622mm wheeled fork for a Dorado and am really happy. The fork flexes less under braking, is way more sensitive to small bumps and I can plow into anything without worrying. Oh and personally I think it makes the bike look better too. Totally worth the added 1kg!

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8/25/2018 5:02 AM

Big Bird wrote:

Hey Push. You guys should just kill it and make the perfect double triple enduro fork. Just sayin'.

MRP is already offering a dual crown aimed for this..lighter than full DH.

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8/25/2018 12:05 PM

Yeah, I remember. But Push could kill it.

If I could afford to build a bike right now, it would be an XL Alloy Nomad in that new Juliana Purple with a Boxxer with Lyric guts.

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8/25/2018 2:32 PM

Dave_Camp wrote:

I think a lot of turns are too tight and pedalling uphill with a dual crown sucks (knees hit the upper crown).


are the climbs or transfer stages really steep enough to put you in 'out of the saddle and hitting my knees on the upper crown' territory?

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8/27/2018 11:20 AM

As always, thanks to everyone for making my "work-day" better...

Few thoughts...

First, I do agree with Rems and DCamp in that there are a lot of variables involve in "front end flex". I do not want the crazy stiffest thing going. In fact, I currently run a 31.8 bar (that flexes a fair amount) and am not the guy to look for the stiffest wheel out there.

That said, the thing I can feel a lot of as a bigger guy is the wheel folding under my bike (or vibrating back and forth through some terrain). This isn't the "good" kind of flex. This makes it harder to control the bike as well as a less than inspired feeling.

I can't help but think if I was wrong, we'd see a lot more single crowns on the DH circuit, but we really don't, and those that do it (Sam) are incredibly talented/not the biggest dudes out there.

As far as hitting your knees on the crown, I really think in this era of long reach bikes it wouldn't be that big of an issue. Plus, I'm really talking about this as a specific enduro thing, not really a trail bike thing. (turns out enduro and trial are not the same thing...)

Anyway, I'm probably dreaming. Or maybe not...and I'll figure out a way to lower a Boxxer and put it on my next bike

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8/27/2018 12:59 PM

36 Twin Crown:

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8/27/2018 1:03 PM

holy shit. I feel like I just had a crystal ball... this is exactly what I was thinking.

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8/27/2018 2:31 PM

For the bike park enduro riders sure. But definitely not worth it for ews guys or enduros on flatter and more pedaly trail systems.

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8/27/2018 2:34 PM

bulletbass man wrote:

For the bike park enduro riders sure. But definitely not worth it for ews guys or enduros on flatter and more pedaly trail systems.

EWS guys are racing stuff that is arguably more challenging than some of the UCI WC stuff...

Now as far as the North America Broduros, I agree. Its overkill. Though even a lot of them are adding legit stuff to their races...

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8/27/2018 2:36 PM

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MRP - Brand Manager
Pivot Cycles - Team Rider

8/27/2018 2:40 PM

Rems wrote:

I don't see this happening for real anytime soon, but some are already doing it:



Only upside I see for a double crown is to always have your stem perfectly aligned with the wheel

The perfectly aligned stem is a big deal to cockeyed mechanics like me.

But there is also the space efficiency of the design - being able to pack more travel into the same axle-to-crown length. And the ability to adjust head angle easily.

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MRP - Brand Manager
Pivot Cycles - Team Rider

8/28/2018 4:31 AM

At 160lbs in ride mode I don't really have issues with feeling modern enduro forks like the Lyrik and 36 tucking under me. However, I am very excited to try the Bartlett on our 170mm Dune hopefully sometime in the near future.

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8/28/2018 5:56 AM

mfoga wrote:

The Enduro use to have a dual crown fork

sspomer wrote:

from jeff's post above - "And yeah, I know, Specialized did this way back when and it failed miserably."

also because specialized designed the fork basically. the fork sucked, not the idea.

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8/28/2018 6:14 AM

mojorisin fox 36 dual crown upgrade?

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9/4/2018 1:10 AM

I wonder if any EWS pros have tested lowered dual crown forks before? You gotta think times at Whistler would be a bit faster with the added stiffness. Imagine Ride Don't Slide etc... And they are fit enough to pedal an extra 1lbs up the liason.

Honestly I think aesthetics is part of it. Dual crown looks awesome on a DH bike but kinda weird now-a-days to be pedaling around... compared to older days of freeride anyway.

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