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I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are for US bike park prices. How much would you feel comfortable paying for a day pass (10-5) at a shuttle-serviced park in the US? Let's say its 800 ft of elevation loss, 10 trails, and the quality is up there with Coast Gravity, plus solid DH bike oriented tracks similar to what you'd find...
This forum thread has 17 replies.

Snfoilhat Liked a reply to forum topic I don't like the direction of modern trail building

11/18/2020 1:59pm
Business Plan: So with this loan we will totally acquire some sick steeps and an old jeep road, and we will cut in like totally natural gnarly trails -- just man and bike my dudes! All my buds will get to ride for free, of course. And we gotta keep it on the low -- don't want a bunch of people blowing up the spot. Monthly cash flow? Return on investment? Uhhhhh Grant Proposal: Hey major bike company, hey county recreation office, our proposal is to grow cycling -- by growing the size of the monster step-down in the woods...
This forum topic has 59 replies.

Losifer Liked a reply to forum topic I don't like the direction of modern trail building

11/17/2020 11:50am
@TEAMROBOT- you bring up some “flow” trails that have great reputations. We have Steve Wentz, who built Silky Johnson, here building a trail for us. Just because a trail is machine built and filled with features does not make for a boring trail. Just like your example of rebuilding Derailed, paying attention to how the terrain is used is of utmost importance.
This forum topic has 59 replies.

bulletbass man Liked a reply to forum topic I don't like the direction of modern trail building

11/17/2020 11:48am
I went and made the climbs extremely hard to get to the best one of our local rogue trails. The whole thing was meant to mimic what I missed out in Oregon. I did volounteer work with groups in Oregon, but I really got into rogue building now because it was clear that was the only way I could ride trails like my favorite stuff out there. But backcountry esque switchbacks tend to keep that trail to very low use which is perfect. Trailbuilding is as rewarding as riding for me. Whether it be maintenance or bringing a slice of...
This forum topic has 59 replies.

Salespunk Liked a reply to forum topic I don't like the direction of modern trail building

11/17/2020 11:48am
Although I empathize with your sentiment and count myself lucky to have access to miles and miles of raw backcountry trails with amazing descents, let me provide a little perspective. Come on down to San Diego. SDMBA just got banned from working on some popular trails. They were doing unsanctioned were removing obstacles, aka rocks, so they could post on IG to ask for donations. Let me repeat, their work has been so poor that they were asked by the land management organization to stop doing work without supervision. None of the SDMBA executives ride, their "trail builder" doesn't ride...
This forum topic has 59 replies.

TEAMROBOT Liked a reply to forum topic I don't like the direction of modern trail building

11/17/2020 11:45am
I'd like to take an unpopular position for a moment to defend flow trails. Flow trails aren't inherently bad. In fact, I can think of a few flow trails I've ridden that are phenomenal. Whoops in Bend, Crank it Up in Whistler, and Silky Johnson at Sol Vista/Granby are all machine-built flow trails with no mandatory jumps, and all three of those trails can entertain an absolute beginner or a WC downhill pro. Seasoned pros have come to Whoops and broken wheels or ripped tires off. Flow trails don't have to suck. I think what we're really complaining about here...
This forum topic has 59 replies.

brash Liked a reply to forum topic I don't like the direction of modern trail building

11/16/2020 3:01pm
But in all seriousness, this does hit a chord. The local sanctioned/legal trails have been dumbed down for the masses. A collective of us moved to another hill and built trails that scare the shit out of anyone who comes for a ride.
This forum topic has 59 replies.

Karabuka Liked a reply to forum topic I don't like the direction of modern trail building

11/16/2020 1:38pm
A week ago we set out to build whole new trail in one day, 500m(1500ft) vertical using few existing paths in the begining and in the end, but completely new in between. It doesnt have a single berm or any significant jump and the only digging was few bike lengths of rocky offcamber, rest was just removing small trees and bushes, cuting the grass and removing the lose rocks... Next morning one of the biggest local advocate of smoothen everything (ofc rides ebike) went to check it out and his comment was "some digging required to make this trail rideable!"...
This forum topic has 59 replies.

yeshir Liked a reply to forum topic I don't like the direction of modern trail building

11/16/2020 11:23am
I've been following Vital MTB (best media source in the game!) religiously since before it was Vital MTB back when I was 11 years old and this thread is the one that has prompted me to make an official account login so I can comment. I couldn't agree more with StudBeefpile - the wide, bermy flow trails that are popping up all over the US absolutely suck. There is a complete disconnect between the natural terrain and geography that once defined and dictated the course of trails. You could pick up many of these new age flow trails and place...
This forum topic has 59 replies.
Land managers are very, very scared of letting experienced trail builders do their own thing versus following the ol IMBA model. This isn't going away, and its good everyone is bringing this up. Negativity isn't always great, but managers and builders need to be reminded that switchbacks are shitty trail designs, berms need to be steep and push you all...

rludes025 Liked a reply to forum topic I don't like the direction of modern trail building

11/16/2020 10:35am
The best trails have always been the unsanctioned and illegal ones... no different now.
This forum topic has 59 replies.

boaz Liked a comment about Feature Eddie Masters Thinks the UCI Is Suffocating Downhill Racing

10/26/2020 2:50pm
Unfortunately this is dead on
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bman33 Liked a comment about Feature Eddie Masters Thinks the UCI Is Suffocating Downhill Racing

10/26/2020 2:43pm
While I agree with your sentiments on UCI giving close to zero f*cks about DH, it can be argued that without Redbull, UCI could very well reduce DH even further or remove it from overall broadcasts. With all it's faults, Redbull has done a lot for our sport many other potential sponsors and even UCI have dismissed.
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TEAMROBOT Liked a comment about Feature Eddie Masters Thinks the UCI Is Suffocating Downhill Racing

10/26/2020 2:42pm
It's crazy out here. Keith Darner said "I'll never host another DH race again" because costs are so high to run a race and racer turnout is so low. Driving across the country multiple times one year to earn the right to enter a WC race the next year is stupid.
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TEAMROBOT Liked a comment about Feature Eddie Masters Thinks the UCI Is Suffocating Downhill Racing

10/26/2020 2:42pm
Great article, Eddie. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this all been done on purpose with the express intent of killing privateer racing? For their broadcast Red Bull wants recognizable names (top athletes only), lots of jumps and high speed for video (machine-built trails as opposed to technical, roots, etc), and close race times (smooth and fast instead of slow and tech). A few years ago, a top WC athlete and RB rider told me that RB was considering going to top-40 only with no qualifier so that the WC circuit was like a closed-off reality TV show for...
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thingswelike Liked a comment about Feature Eddie Masters Thinks the UCI Is Suffocating Downhill Racing

10/26/2020 2:41pm
Ha - Eddie said he was available to write articles while in self-isolation - He wasn't joking!
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jackhill Added a comment about feature Eddie Masters Thinks the UCI Is Suffocating Downhill Racing

10/26/2020 2:40pm
I don't know how things work with sanctioning bodies, but my guess is the only reason UCI doesn't do this is they want money. Which makes sense in the short term. But we don't want this to be a short term thing. We want to foster elite racers who pursue dh, not switch to another sport or leave with a bad taste in their mouth. I've never had a real shot at world cups, but I remember as a junior who was babysitting, mowing lawns, and packing boxes under the table to get even a few hours from home for...
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sspomer Liked a comment about Feature Eddie Masters Thinks the UCI Is Suffocating Downhill Racing

10/26/2020 2:29pm
long gone are the days of riders finding random loophole races in georgia to get world cup points (i think alex morgan (BCD) figured this out in 1998 or 1999, so he and some others like hart, chase, ebbett and/or porter could snag WC points at a random race). wonder what it takes to have a domestic race that has points anymore? (EDIT: just saw adam digby's post. thanks adam! informative!)
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jackhill Added a comment about feature Eddie Masters Thinks the UCI Is Suffocating Downhill Racing

10/26/2020 11:43am
Can't speak for other countries, but if you're a US rider you pretty much need to be rich to get into World Cups. DH isn't a cheap sport, but traveling the country for 5 races that get you UCI points (and not even that many) is crazy. Expecting people to max out credit cards and make objectively horrible financial decisions just to have a shot at participating is sad, and fundamentally bad for our sport. The UCI needs to start giving points for respected regional races like NW cups. They need to just accept these races will be run different...
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NoahColorado Liked a reply to forum topic Are Global DH Bikes Sales Falling?

10/20/2020 1:46pm
Yes, the numbers discussed are close. It's a difficult segment sales-wise. I have to imagine the number of top-end DH bikes going out the door at full margin is miniscule. But, I also think the market for $3-4k DH bikes will grow in coming years as bike park riding continues to expand and consumers seem to be moving towards mid-travel bikes for their daily-drivers. Yes, enduro race bikes are getting really good at DH, but often at the expense of general usability.
This forum topic has 105 replies.