As a Michigander I'm both surprised and not surprised at how much the U.P has been mentioned. I'm a lowly troll from the lower peninsula but riding in Marquette I would always meet groups from out west that decided to take their riding trip in the yoop because it's so good.
Another option kinda in the area is Sault Ste Marie Ontario. Take all of this with a grain of salt because I haven't been in many years, but I hear it's getting awesome. The city has a population of 70k but it feels smaller than that and getting around isn't too crazy, because of its size there are decent jobs and industry and if you're real hard up they have a steel mill that always seems to be hiring for some position. The city and area has invested a bunch of money into trails, they built a Greenway so you can ride from town and in the winter I think they groom right from town out to the trails. They seem really invested in building cool stuff and at least one trail company is now located there, they also have a crazy freeride scene that they basically legitimized that takes advantage of some of the most elevation in the midwest. Lake Superior is right there and Lake Superior Provincial Park is up the road and is an absolute gem. There is a ton of potential there and it sounds like they're already getting after it.
How does someone even make this work? Are the doors open to other western countries? I'd assume learning the local language would be a must as...
How does someone even make this work? Are the doors open to other western countries? I'd assume learning the local language would be a must as well. But that area is insanely beautiful!
If you want to come to Italy, you have to know there are parts of it that have now living costs as high as Switzerland. South Tyrol...
If you want to come to Italy, you have to know there are parts of it that have now living costs as high as Switzerland. South Tyrol, my home, is now unaffordable due to the overwhelming tourism. The bloddy dolomites get trampled over and the results are skyrocketing prices. Think of Jackson hole!
But there are plenty of old houses and terrain left behind in other zones. Buying there isn't or shouldn't be a problem. Actually there are zones, where you can buy 1€ houses in Italy as they are confronted with dying towns, especially in the areas where there is no work. In certain areas you will get a contribution from the municipalities if you are willing to establish your residence there!
The problems start after you've bought. Bureaucracy while renovating, missing infrastructure and a very old population especially in remote "bikingfriendly" regions makes it a little hard to get things moving. However, if you buy in a cheap region, the cost of living is also cheap. There are still places where the espresso costs 1€, we here are paying 2€. (In Italy, espresso prices are a totally legitimate benchmark for comparing the cost of living, lol)
But the difficulty will be finding a decent paying job. If you wanna buy in Italy, I reckon you should have some remote job, where you get decently paid. Because the salaries in general are utterly sh!t. Oh, and the taxes are high, everything you earn over 50k will be taxed with 43%!
Obviously you HAVE TO learn italian. I am constantly shocked that even here in South Tyrol, most Italian-speaking Italians (more than half of the people in South Tyrol, including me, speak German btw.) can or will speak only Italian—regardless of whether they are young or old.
Italy is a land of contrasts: A beautiful country that has something to offer for everyone—biking, climbing, skiing, Italian culture, THE FOOD—yet as a place to live, it’s a country that demands a lot from you.
Thanks for elaborating ! Hard to contemplate an international move and uprooting your whole life. But numerous coworkers of mine here in SoCal are from all over the world. Spain, Colombia, France, Switzerland, Canada..... They did it !
In the western US, anyone have insight into Wenatchee WA? Worked with a person from there and said dirt biking is world class. Wondering how the mtb is? Seems like lower cost of living overall…
In the western US, anyone have insight into Wenatchee WA? Worked with a person from there and said dirt biking is world class. Wondering how the...
In the western US, anyone have insight into Wenatchee WA? Worked with a person from there and said dirt biking is world class. Wondering how the mtb is? Seems like lower cost of living overall…
Take this with a grain of salt, I live in Seattle not Wenatchee so I'm sure there's a lot I don't know of, but it doesn't translate 1:1 with the dirt biking there (which I also hear is world class). Leavenworth has a few fun spots, and there's two classics in peshastin, but most of the riding in the surrounding area is "adventure" riding. If that's your style there's tons. Ed Master's Trans Cascadia video is a good representation of the riding in that part of the cascades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCUZTFhDL-c But as far as developed trail systems, especially of the advanced, ride from your house variety it's a bit lacking. Sage hills is right out of town but pretty smooth xc style stuff. And that dirt east of the crest can't be ridden when it rains, and wenatchee is very cold/snowy in the winter.
For the thread at large, I'd throw out some of the towns surrounding portland, at least if we're considering job opportunities. There are cheaper places for sure, but that part of Oregon has a LOT of excellent riding, and a very strong riding community who puts a ton into the trail systems. It's year round, several big systems to the west of portland, as well as lots of proper riding along hwy 26 (where Bode Burke grew up). Hood river too.
The riding in the area used by Trans Cascadia is very good, but as stated more adventure riding. I’m not sure how daily access would be. I did trans cascadia in 2019, around Gifford Pinchot and st Helen’s. Beautiful spot, would be more a destination for a trip, than living in that area. I’m don’t recall having much around there.
I am glad this thing thread is still going and surprised its made it to page 4. Bulgaria and Romania would be fun to visit. I was expecting Spain and Portugal to be on here. Anyone visit or live in these places and can comment?
Anywhere in central Appalachia in America is very very, very inexpensive. You can buy whole streets full of houses in towns in Eastern Ky just by calling the mayor and giving him a few grand in back taxes on the properties that have been adandoned since mountain top removal coal mining eliminated the majority of jobs 25 years ago.
Most of the underground mines are now flooded with millions of gallons of fresh water, so maybe take up spelunking too!? Wildcat coal mining is also a popular pastime among some locals, so if you have strong diesel mechanic skills you can always sell black market metabolic coal off some dead coal baron’s lease that you extracted yourself with surplus mining equipment that literally lines the highways in some areas.
From EKY to the WV panhandle, all the way to the Ohio line, there’s a giant glut of abandoned mining towns, kinda like Colorado in the 1960’s and 70’s!
You will be hours away from civilization, but Durango is already pretty darn isolated. Sure, you won’t have anyone to ride with, and for the most part you will have to build your own trails but you’ll be 3 hours from Asheville or Knoxville and 6 hours from Rays instead of 5 hours from Santa Fe.
Anywhere in central Appalachia in America is very very, very inexpensive. You can buy whole streets full of houses in towns in Eastern Ky just by...
Anywhere in central Appalachia in America is very very, very inexpensive. You can buy whole streets full of houses in towns in Eastern Ky just by calling the mayor and giving him a few grand in back taxes on the properties that have been adandoned since mountain top removal coal mining eliminated the majority of jobs 25 years ago.
Most of the underground mines are now flooded with millions of gallons of fresh water, so maybe take up spelunking too!? Wildcat coal mining is also a popular pastime among some locals, so if you have strong diesel mechanic skills you can always sell black market metabolic coal off some dead coal baron’s lease that you extracted yourself with surplus mining equipment that literally lines the highways in some areas.
From EKY to the WV panhandle, all the way to the Ohio line, there’s a giant glut of abandoned mining towns, kinda like Colorado in the 1960’s and 70’s!
You will be hours away from civilization, but Durango is already pretty darn isolated. Sure, you won’t have anyone to ride with, and for the most part you will have to build your own trails but you’ll be 3 hours from Asheville or Knoxville and 6 hours from Rays instead of 5 hours from Santa Fe.
Anywhere in central Appalachia in America is very very, very inexpensive. You can buy whole streets full of houses in towns in Eastern Ky just by...
Anywhere in central Appalachia in America is very very, very inexpensive. You can buy whole streets full of houses in towns in Eastern Ky just by calling the mayor and giving him a few grand in back taxes on the properties that have been adandoned since mountain top removal coal mining eliminated the majority of jobs 25 years ago.
Most of the underground mines are now flooded with millions of gallons of fresh water, so maybe take up spelunking too!? Wildcat coal mining is also a popular pastime among some locals, so if you have strong diesel mechanic skills you can always sell black market metabolic coal off some dead coal baron’s lease that you extracted yourself with surplus mining equipment that literally lines the highways in some areas.
From EKY to the WV panhandle, all the way to the Ohio line, there’s a giant glut of abandoned mining towns, kinda like Colorado in the 1960’s and 70’s!
You will be hours away from civilization, but Durango is already pretty darn isolated. Sure, you won’t have anyone to ride with, and for the most part you will have to build your own trails but you’ll be 3 hours from Asheville or Knoxville and 6 hours from Rays instead of 5 hours from Santa Fe.
I had to goggle what wildcat coal mining is. Interestingly enough there was a coal mine near Durango in wildcat canyon.
Anywhere in central Appalachia in America is very very, very inexpensive. You can buy whole streets full of houses in towns in Eastern Ky just by...
Anywhere in central Appalachia in America is very very, very inexpensive. You can buy whole streets full of houses in towns in Eastern Ky just by calling the mayor and giving him a few grand in back taxes on the properties that have been adandoned since mountain top removal coal mining eliminated the majority of jobs 25 years ago.
Most of the underground mines are now flooded with millions of gallons of fresh water, so maybe take up spelunking too!? Wildcat coal mining is also a popular pastime among some locals, so if you have strong diesel mechanic skills you can always sell black market metabolic coal off some dead coal baron’s lease that you extracted yourself with surplus mining equipment that literally lines the highways in some areas.
From EKY to the WV panhandle, all the way to the Ohio line, there’s a giant glut of abandoned mining towns, kinda like Colorado in the 1960’s and 70’s!
You will be hours away from civilization, but Durango is already pretty darn isolated. Sure, you won’t have anyone to ride with, and for the most part you will have to build your own trails but you’ll be 3 hours from Asheville or Knoxville and 6 hours from Rays instead of 5 hours from Santa Fe.
I had thought for years that regulation killed coal mining, but it turns out it was a massive ramp up in natgas.
I was going to say, I went to the 2021 Snowshoe world cup, and I loved it. You can buy a condo at the resort for a reasonable price that's ski in/ski out. No trail building required. Only thing is, as you said, the nearest Walmart is 45 min away.
Is there still a riding scene in Slaytfork? In the mid 90's we'd road trip down from Toronto area to ride. This was before we switched to going to Pisgah.
Anywhere in central Appalachia in America is very very, very inexpensive. You can buy whole streets full of houses in towns in Eastern Ky just by...
Anywhere in central Appalachia in America is very very, very inexpensive. You can buy whole streets full of houses in towns in Eastern Ky just by calling the mayor and giving him a few grand in back taxes on the properties that have been adandoned since mountain top removal coal mining eliminated the majority of jobs 25 years ago.
Most of the underground mines are now flooded with millions of gallons of fresh water, so maybe take up spelunking too!? Wildcat coal mining is also a popular pastime among some locals, so if you have strong diesel mechanic skills you can always sell black market metabolic coal off some dead coal baron’s lease that you extracted yourself with surplus mining equipment that literally lines the highways in some areas.
From EKY to the WV panhandle, all the way to the Ohio line, there’s a giant glut of abandoned mining towns, kinda like Colorado in the 1960’s and 70’s!
You will be hours away from civilization, but Durango is already pretty darn isolated. Sure, you won’t have anyone to ride with, and for the most part you will have to build your own trails but you’ll be 3 hours from Asheville or Knoxville and 6 hours from Rays instead of 5 hours from Santa Fe.
The old mines sound like a pretty wild scene! What's "metabolic coal"? Google didn't seem to have any idea.
Is there still a riding scene in Slaytfork? In the mid 90's we'd road trip down from Toronto area to ride. This was before we switched...
Is there still a riding scene in Slaytfork? In the mid 90's we'd road trip down from Toronto area to ride. This was before we switched to going to Pisgah.
yeah-there's actually been a lot of trailbuilding/effort in that region recently. but still pretty isolated/not much infrastructure. I guess you could live in elkins...but still not much else nearby until you get to Lewisburg or over to Staunton or Harrisburg.
In the western US, anyone have insight into Wenatchee WA? Worked with a person from there and said dirt biking is world class. Wondering how the...
In the western US, anyone have insight into Wenatchee WA? Worked with a person from there and said dirt biking is world class. Wondering how the mtb is? Seems like lower cost of living overall…
Take this with a grain of salt, I live in Seattle not Wenatchee so I'm sure there's a lot I don't know of, but it doesn't...
Take this with a grain of salt, I live in Seattle not Wenatchee so I'm sure there's a lot I don't know of, but it doesn't translate 1:1 with the dirt biking there (which I also hear is world class). Leavenworth has a few fun spots, and there's two classics in peshastin, but most of the riding in the surrounding area is "adventure" riding. If that's your style there's tons. Ed Master's Trans Cascadia video is a good representation of the riding in that part of the cascades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCUZTFhDL-c But as far as developed trail systems, especially of the advanced, ride from your house variety it's a bit lacking. Sage hills is right out of town but pretty smooth xc style stuff. And that dirt east of the crest can't be ridden when it rains, and wenatchee is very cold/snowy in the winter.
For the thread at large, I'd throw out some of the towns surrounding portland, at least if we're considering job opportunities. There are cheaper places for sure, but that part of Oregon has a LOT of excellent riding, and a very strong riding community who puts a ton into the trail systems. It's year round, several big systems to the west of portland, as well as lots of proper riding along hwy 26 (where Bode Burke grew up). Hood river too.
I live about 20 miles "up valley" in Leavenworth. Lots of great, aggressive, pirate trails in the Upper Valley. "Winch and plummet" style stuff. Not a ton of "legal" trails on the map, so it doesn't look impressive when perusing trailforks. The bike park at Steven's is about 40 mins away and is making some improvements. Snoqualmie is bad ass for the occasional trip and is only about 90 mins away.
The riding in Wenatchee trends towards XC-style riding. There is more rolling terrain and feels a bit more like the high desert. It is smoother, not as steep, you could slay with a 130mm trail bike.
I don't ride moto but there are hundreds of miles of moto trails.
The elephant in the room is that its very hard to find a good job. Produce and hydropower are the big industries. Plenty of medical jobs too.
It's a secret!
Jk it's the Wasatch Front, where 85% of people in Utah live
As a Michigander I'm both surprised and not surprised at how much the U.P has been mentioned. I'm a lowly troll from the lower peninsula but riding in Marquette I would always meet groups from out west that decided to take their riding trip in the yoop because it's so good.
Another option kinda in the area is Sault Ste Marie Ontario. Take all of this with a grain of salt because I haven't been in many years, but I hear it's getting awesome. The city has a population of 70k but it feels smaller than that and getting around isn't too crazy, because of its size there are decent jobs and industry and if you're real hard up they have a steel mill that always seems to be hiring for some position. The city and area has invested a bunch of money into trails, they built a Greenway so you can ride from town and in the winter I think they groom right from town out to the trails. They seem really invested in building cool stuff and at least one trail company is now located there, they also have a crazy freeride scene that they basically legitimized that takes advantage of some of the most elevation in the midwest. Lake Superior is right there and Lake Superior Provincial Park is up the road and is an absolute gem. There is a ton of potential there and it sounds like they're already getting after it.
what do you guys consider “living?”
being able to live car free
Thanks for elaborating ! Hard to contemplate an international move and uprooting your whole life. But numerous coworkers of mine here in SoCal are from all over the world. Spain, Colombia, France, Switzerland, Canada..... They did it !
Have you been in Italy your whole life?
In the western US, anyone have insight into Wenatchee WA? Worked with a person from there and said dirt biking is world class. Wondering how the mtb is? Seems like lower cost of living overall…
A new AMG G-Wagon every year. It's that just the norm?
Take this with a grain of salt, I live in Seattle not Wenatchee so I'm sure there's a lot I don't know of, but it doesn't translate 1:1 with the dirt biking there (which I also hear is world class). Leavenworth has a few fun spots, and there's two classics in peshastin, but most of the riding in the surrounding area is "adventure" riding. If that's your style there's tons. Ed Master's Trans Cascadia video is a good representation of the riding in that part of the cascades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCUZTFhDL-c
But as far as developed trail systems, especially of the advanced, ride from your house variety it's a bit lacking. Sage hills is right out of town but pretty smooth xc style stuff. And that dirt east of the crest can't be ridden when it rains, and wenatchee is very cold/snowy in the winter.
For the thread at large, I'd throw out some of the towns surrounding portland, at least if we're considering job opportunities. There are cheaper places for sure, but that part of Oregon has a LOT of excellent riding, and a very strong riding community who puts a ton into the trail systems. It's year round, several big systems to the west of portland, as well as lots of proper riding along hwy 26 (where Bode Burke grew up). Hood river too.
Somebody must have downvoted you for giving up the secret. Wasn't me!
The riding in the area used by Trans Cascadia is very good, but as stated more adventure riding. I’m not sure how daily access would be. I did trans cascadia in 2019, around Gifford Pinchot and st Helen’s. Beautiful spot, would be more a destination for a trip, than living in that area. I’m don’t recall having much around there.
I am glad this thing thread is still going and surprised its made it to page 4. Bulgaria and Romania would be fun to visit. I was expecting Spain and Portugal to be on here. Anyone visit or live in these places and can comment?
Anywhere in central Appalachia in America is very very, very inexpensive. You can buy whole streets full of houses in towns in Eastern Ky just by calling the mayor and giving him a few grand in back taxes on the properties that have been adandoned since mountain top removal coal mining eliminated the majority of jobs 25 years ago.
Most of the underground mines are now flooded with millions of gallons of fresh water, so maybe take up spelunking too!? Wildcat coal mining is also a popular pastime among some locals, so if you have strong diesel mechanic skills you can always sell black market metabolic coal off some dead coal baron’s lease that you extracted yourself with surplus mining equipment that literally lines the highways in some areas.
From EKY to the WV panhandle, all the way to the Ohio line, there’s a giant glut of abandoned mining towns, kinda like Colorado in the 1960’s and 70’s!
You will be hours away from civilization, but Durango is already pretty darn isolated. Sure, you won’t have anyone to ride with, and for the most part you will have to build your own trails but you’ll be 3 hours from Asheville or Knoxville and 6 hours from Rays instead of 5 hours from Santa Fe.
Build your own trails?
Huh,
I had to goggle what wildcat coal mining is. Interestingly enough there was a coal mine near Durango in wildcat canyon.
I had thought for years that regulation killed coal mining, but it turns out it was a massive ramp up in natgas.
I was going to say, I went to the 2021 Snowshoe world cup, and I loved it. You can buy a condo at the resort for a reasonable price that's ski in/ski out. No trail building required. Only thing is, as you said, the nearest Walmart is 45 min away.
...
Is there still a riding scene in Slaytfork? In the mid 90's we'd road trip down from Toronto area to ride. This was before we switched to going to Pisgah.
The old mines sound like a pretty wild scene! What's "metabolic coal"? Google didn't seem to have any idea.
yeah-there's actually been a lot of trailbuilding/effort in that region recently. but still pretty isolated/not much infrastructure. I guess you could live in elkins...but still not much else nearby until you get to Lewisburg or over to Staunton or Harrisburg.
I live about 20 miles "up valley" in Leavenworth. Lots of great, aggressive, pirate trails in the Upper Valley. "Winch and plummet" style stuff. Not a ton of "legal" trails on the map, so it doesn't look impressive when perusing trailforks. The bike park at Steven's is about 40 mins away and is making some improvements. Snoqualmie is bad ass for the occasional trip and is only about 90 mins away.
The riding in Wenatchee trends towards XC-style riding. There is more rolling terrain and feels a bit more like the high desert. It is smoother, not as steep, you could slay with a 130mm trail bike.
I don't ride moto but there are hundreds of miles of moto trails.
The elephant in the room is that its very hard to find a good job. Produce and hydropower are the big industries. Plenty of medical jobs too.
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