Evan's Op-ed corner: UCI WB poles, DSQs, and justice for Lachie

This has been bugging me. I think he at least should have suspected that he was on the wrong side of the pole. 

I know it gets into a grey area, but intent has got to play into it. Like in baseball, a check swing is basically up to the umpires discretion, leaving the course I believer could be governed the same way.  I think everyone that watches can tell that lachie's wasn't intentional. It would help with crashes that go out of the course as well.  It introduces judgement calls, but that has gotta be better than just a blanket DSQ.  Plus it would give me something to be mad at when I can disagree with the UCI ump.  

I guess you could say that the current rule is simple (easy to implement), and consistent. However, I agree it can be overly punitive in many situations. I'm sure it would take some debate and trial/error to devise a better rule, but I think it's worth trying. Some kind of scaleable time penalty. Perhaps with the consideration of whether a time advantage was gained. 

This I like ^^ well said 

Penalty should be more than 10 seconds imo.

1 minute (in dh) is enough you will lose any possible competitive advantage.

However lachie would have left finals with points.  Which I think is fair given what happened.

Only dq if intent to cheat is determined.  Which of course should be appealable.

a longer time period for enduro.  But I also think Richie got overly penalized for an honest mistake.  

dsq is a particularly harsh penalty based on the fact it’s also missed.  Amaury in qualis being a perfect example.  And enduro being particularly egregious if people don’t self report.

Course tape would also go a long way.  Both in taking away any need for video detective work and making it very easy for Marshalls/officials to not miss one as well.  Poles are great in certain sections but I think course tape has proven to solve some issues the poles cause.  Hard to believe someone doesn’t make compostable/recyclable race tape or that sponsors wouldn’t be willing to pay for it.

lol intent??? We’re asking for WBD and volunteer judges and weirdo commisaires (I don’t even know what that is!) to get more involved now? Are you insane? What if a cool guy didn’t intend to crash—does he get a little time shaved off? 

lots of emotional decision making here. 

And all this for racing the clock only. You guys are a mess!

“kant weight wrote:

I think 10 seconds per pole would be fine, but I’d still be fine with just assigning 30th place to anyone that misses a pole. With what these riders go through to qualify now days, getting 0 points at the end of the weekend is nuts. Especially with how few factory spots there are now days and how much a riders overall standings could play into a contract. If you drop in and make it to the finish line you should get 30 points or whatever. 

Also think the hiking back up thing is just dumb and dangerous. What happens when someone crashes. Goes way outside of the course, has to hike back up cause they want their 30 points and then ends up impeding on the next rider dropping. It’s happened before with crashed riders. Just makes everyone look bad. 

What if you go outside a pole in qualies? 

I think it was Carlson tipping the comissaires ; ), but in any case what is evident is that Lachie was going Mach 1000 on that section before the it gets steep again and he held to his bike parying when he got deflected to his right and even closed his eyes holding on for dear life but he managed to bring back the back more or less to a line down that section and did not notice he rode to the right of that pole.. he pushed too hard on that part and it did not pay off.. going to the limit. hats off

I don’t think we would be talking about this if his run wasn’t broadcast, initially accepted as legitimate, and then DSQ’d from the hot seat live. How many DSQs have happened to other well liked riders in non-broadcast portions of the race weekend (Q1/Q2) or were otherwise anonymous runs (Dak DQ’d from worlds) that have just gone largely uncontested? I think people only care because of how visible this was, and how obviously heart breaking this was for Lachie, but reinvent the wheel on course limits? I don’t think that’s a measured reaction at all.

I can’t think of another TIME TRIAL sport where leaving the course doesn’t result in a DQ, or is otherwise so detrimental to performance that it doesn’t need to be penalized. For everyone bringing up F1, what happens when a driver goes beyond track limits in qualifying? Their time is deleted. Elbow to elbow/ wheel to wheel racing penalty structures are not in any way applicable to World Cup DH, not to mention the fact that the F1 world is constantly tearing itself apart over the subjectivity of penalties. Everyone has spent the past three years insisting that the UCI is the most poorly run organization on the planet, and now because of a live broadcast DQ people are entertaining the thought of this organization handing down subjective penalties? Do you really want to open the door to appeal processes in WC DH so the UCI ends up rescinding podiums, wins, and points weeks after a race has finished? That is what happens in sports like F1 where volunteer officials are asked to make subjective rulings (see 2026 Monaco GP, 2023 Saudi Arabia GP, whatever GP that was where Vettel moved the first and second place signs around in Parc Ferme).

The course is marked the same for everyone. If there is a bullshit pole, there is a bullshit pole for everyone. If you aren’t willing to navigate said bullshit pole in a way where you stay on the track, then the win will go to someone who is, it’s that simple. Everyone knows the consequences for going outside of the course before they race, it’s not like Lachie was gob-smacked that such a rule exists. He was upset, and understandably so, but that doesn’t mean changes need to be made to the rules. Keep this shit simple. The devil that we know is a much better alternative to the Pandora’s box that is being offered as an alternative. 

Put some F tape back !!

The current DQ rule makes sense. It's similar to alpine ski racing: if you miss a gate, then you are either DQed or you hike up to get around it. It's straightforward with no gray area. Comparisons to longer forms of racing (MX, Formula 1, etc) don't make sense.

Maybe the pole where Lachie went around was in a weird spot or something... so that could be a legitimate argument.

It's not about carbon footprint, its about litter in the forest. I'm sure WC level races do better, but I've never once seen a local race promoter remove all their tape. Not once. 

I could see some tape in key sections, but keep poles wherever possible. Just take all that shit down when done. Please!

Maybe it's lack of imagination (I'm not a racer), but I'm not sure I totally understand the tape vs. poles argument. I can remember plenty of races with riders breaking tape, getting tangled up in it, all to ultimately face the same penalty as skipping a pole. Sure, it makes it easier to know where you went off track, but you then still have to re-enter the track in that spot and in most cases, your run is f*cked.

These riders know where the poles are. I mean hell, most top riders claim to be able to mentally visualize AN ENTIRE RUN in full detail, with line choice. That's bonkers to me, but also clearly requires having a clear mental picture of where course boundaries begin and end.

I don't think its absurd to expect riders to stay within poles and penalize them strongly if they don't. I do however think its harsh to fully disqualify a rider for skipping a pole, and I like the 5-10 second fixed time penalty per pole skipped. Imagine Lachie was in Jordan's position in the overall — a single missed pole resulting in a DSQ could have derailed an entire season's worth of effort, despite an incredible riding performance. A 10 second penalty is a pretty harsh slap on the wrist in terms of where it likely puts someone given how tight times are these days, but it at least allows him to stay in the running. 

The thing you have to keep in mind with changing the rules to be a time penalty per pole missed is that affects how they place the poles. They can increase/decrease the spacing of poles to make course cutting a more/less consequential penalty. So when you say 5 seconds or 10 seconds, it doesn't really matter: the course designer can make the penalty for cutting a section whatever he wants by just changing the number of poles.  So you can end up with some discretion/subjectivity/whatever regardless. 

We shouldn't be looking for ways to still give some participation trophies to riders who disobey the rules and go off course. We should be looking to punish them just enough that they're going to make a huge effort to stay on course. Is that an immediate disqualification with zero points? I don't think so. I'd like to reward qualifying for the finals. That's 30th place points.

At the end of the day, a person who goes VERY slow in a section in an effort to stay on course - even going so far as to come to a stop - shouldn't be given fewer points than a person who breaks one of the fundamental rules of the sport but was going faster.

Would this discussion even be happening if the rider was Thibaut Deprela (who - for the record - I really dislike for a number of reasons but course-cutting is not listed among them) or Stephano Interozzi or Austin Dooley? Would this discussion be happening if it was Maylei Leaneagh or Megan Bedard or Sacha Mills? I think the "Lachie is a really decent guy we want to see him do well" factor is super high with this particular case. 

Riders and spectators have been asking for more safety and more line choice on courses, right? Tape is dangerous and makes the racing worse. 

With poles, we only care about the lowest part of the wheel. If the lowest part of the wheel is inside the course then the rider is on course. A rider can be leaned over and just have their wheels inside the course and be considered "in." If a rider hits the pole, it flops over and stands up or flops over and stays near its original position.

With tape, the handlebars become the limiting factor and the course becomes narrower because the rider can no longer lean over the pole. Handlebars getting caught in tape is a safety problem, too. Bars into tape, tape dragging behind bike wraps onto cassette...and then what? 

Additionally, if using tape you'll need extra course judges in every section to make sure the tape gets retaped if it gets pulled down. Poles can be stood back up and dropped into place in a few seconds. Tape requires securing around a structure that may or may not still be standing, running it along the length, and securing it to a different structure. In a steep section, that might take a few minutes for an official to scurry up the hill and do it. What happens if the next rider comes down before the tape is reattached?

Poles are better. 30th place points are better.

Reading all of this and thinking about how qualifying has changed for the race and for teams in the World Cup series in general, I think some change is warranted. 

- 10 second penalty for missing one pole is reasonable but I think you need automatic last place finish if you miss more than one pole (30th place). Otherwise the French lines are coming back which we don’t need  

- DSQ is too harsh in the final after battling through Q1 and potentially Q2. There needs to be points  

- I think there needs to be more points for making the final. The Q1 and Q2  process is cut throat but I think it works. That said, someone like Loris, who seemingly always makes the show, should be rewarded. It’s damn impressive. 

-With the team points mattering a lot, Riders who make the finals should be scoring more points and shouldn’t lose them for a crash in finals where they miss a pole. 

This. 

It's going to be very hard to win over anyone by giving an arbitrary second penalty (while I think Evan's point of 10 seconds is valid). This just takes me back to Poland last year when AP got DSQed. Both situations could have be completely avoided with better markings.

Finn weighs on WynTv. DQ and no course tape 

AP wasn’t dq’d in Poland because he did nothing wrong 

Looks like it was reported but Trek missed the deadline to call it. I missed spoke. Just shows that the course should be taped better there would be no issues.  This does look outside the tape to me. 

I walked that section a few times it was pretty clear that was the B line around the jump.

44 of the 45 people who made finals in whistler made it round the correct side of that pole in finals, this wasn’t a pole positioning or course tape issue. If you moved that pole 5ft to the riders right you can guarantee the one above it will be getting kicked every lap, 

Time penalty could apply to race runs but what about qualis? Let's say Les Gets this year, a 10-seconds penalty would have seen Vali still qualifying in Q1. Would you say it would have been fair to the rider getting bumped out of the top 10, who rode within the track boundaries? 

Surely the time penalty is the time it takes to go back and re-enter the track where you left it? If you don't want to do that, it's a choice to get disqualified.

The existing rule is harsh but fair and leaves no wiggle room for creative interpretations. 

Its harsh if you dont know you've done it. 

Because there's no way to go back up once you've finished and the officials tell you what you did.

If you know what you did, you are right, going back around is an effective time penalty. 

In sailing, if you think you have broken a rule, you punish yourself by doing a 360 degree turn.