Dude, collaboration is not unique to engineering. Inter and intra specialty collaboration is surprisingly normal in the world at large, especially when people are working on a common outcome.
I think where you might get that perception is how you tend to be combative with so many people.
Dude, collaboration is not unique to engineering. Inter and intra specialty collaboration is surprisingly normal in the world at large, especially when people are working on...
Dude, collaboration is not unique to engineering. Inter and intra specialty collaboration is surprisingly normal in the world at large, especially when people are working on a common outcome.
I think where you might get that perception is how you tend to be combative with so many people.
I think transition simply believes there is a certain quality in quantity in bike frames. A lot of riders will never notice their slightly misaligned rear end or put the forces on the bike to really cause an issue.
On the other hand they sell a lot of crash replacement frames and honor a lot of warranties. They need to store/ship those extra frames. And a slightly cheaper frame makes that affordable to them and the consumer. I don’t think your average transition rider is looking for the best frame. They are looking to invest in riding culture and to know if they throw their bike off a drop they can get a replacement for a price they can afford. And I imagine if you bust out the calipers and hit up the warranty department they will probably work with ya to make ya happy if you just spent 2.5-3.5k on a bike frame.
I also think many of the brands that do claim to have the best frames and the in house engineers have had plenty of misses they ran with or made compromises based on the desires of marketing and management. Or have had serious design and manufacturing flaws that ended up in hands of consumers and they ultimately disregarded said consumers complaints. Where as transition has been pretty quick to respond to both changing technology (literally kind of led the charge on modern geo in production frames) and customer preferences (nixing head set cable routing on repeater or updating the recent tr11 and releasing bottlerocket to solve issues with the last one).
Ultimately they make customers happy and the profits are largely invested in awesome bike riders and trails. I’m much more interested in paying for that than a bike that performs 10 percent better. But I’d only put my transitions maybe a few percent behind the best of the competition. Funnily enough for the years transition actually was a catalog brand enough people had the same mindset for them to become what they are today.
Also outing a specific person without saying their name is still name dropping. If I say the guy who played iron man used to have a drug problem it doesn’t exactly take a genius to figure out I’m talking about Robert Downie jr.
Can we just cut to the chase and pre-emptively ban Dougal? I thought this place was the last safe haven from his bullshit. The schtick of...
Can we just cut to the chase and pre-emptively ban Dougal? I thought this place was the last safe haven from his bullshit. The schtick of poo-pooing everything on the planet is old as dirt and he ruins every conversation he butts in on.
Doogs, you spend an awful lot of time on forums for someone who claims to be so busy. Go farm downvotes somewhere else.
Are you serious? This is pushing cancel culture to whole new level if so. You may not like him, but unless he is breaking the rules of forum he has every right to post here just like you and me. If he bothers you so much just use the ignore function.
How many composites engineers do you think are there in the whole industry? And how many stress analysists?FWIW, from what I've heard (obviously could be wrong...
How many composites engineers do you think are there in the whole industry? And how many stress analysists?
FWIW, from what I've heard (obviously could be wrong or could be old info) apparently Yeti's process was quite similar. Engineering firm doing the suspension (Switch link was done by Sotto Design Group for example, not sure what the situation is like for Switch Infinity or Sixfinity) and an industrial design firm doing the surface modelling of the frame (the 'looks') and an overseas firm doing molds, carbon layup based on their experience, testing, if it breaks, strengthen the breaking point, once it's good, ship it.
Again, I'm not saying it's what's happening now, but I did hear that was the approach some years ago at least. And based on the size of the companies (isn't Transition like 10 people) I'd bet it's more of the same at most of these small brands.
As you mentioned, this is old information by many years and product cycles. Yeti does all their engineering work in house from kinematic to ID, FEA and carbon layup along with custom suspension tuning. They do partner with a vendor in Asia for production but all the main work is done in Golden.
You can also look at their Linkedin page to see exactly who and how many people are working there to confirm this. The Design and Engineering team is bigger than the Marketing team from what I remember.
I think transition simply believes there is a certain quality in quantity in bike frames. A lot of riders will never notice their slightly misaligned rear...
I think transition simply believes there is a certain quality in quantity in bike frames. A lot of riders will never notice their slightly misaligned rear end or put the forces on the bike to really cause an issue.
On the other hand they sell a lot of crash replacement frames and honor a lot of warranties. They need to store/ship those extra frames. And a slightly cheaper frame makes that affordable to them and the consumer. I don’t think your average transition rider is looking for the best frame. They are looking to invest in riding culture and to know if they throw their bike off a drop they can get a replacement for a price they can afford. And I imagine if you bust out the calipers and hit up the warranty department they will probably work with ya to make ya happy if you just spent 2.5-3.5k on a bike frame.
I also think many of the brands that do claim to have the best frames and the in house engineers have had plenty of misses they ran with or made compromises based on the desires of marketing and management. Or have had serious design and manufacturing flaws that ended up in hands of consumers and they ultimately disregarded said consumers complaints. Where as transition has been pretty quick to respond to both changing technology (literally kind of led the charge on modern geo in production frames) and customer preferences (nixing head set cable routing on repeater or updating the recent tr11 and releasing bottlerocket to solve issues with the last one).
Ultimately they make customers happy and the profits are largely invested in awesome bike riders and trails. I’m much more interested in paying for that than a bike that performs 10 percent better. But I’d only put my transitions maybe a few percent behind the best of the competition. Funnily enough for the years transition actually was a catalog brand enough people had the same mindset for them to become what they are today.
Also outing a specific person without saying their name is still name dropping. If I say the guy who played iron man used to have a drug problem it doesn’t exactly take a genius to figure out I’m talking about Robert Downie jr.
Quick example and I appreciate everybody’s insight on this as well, but my friend bought a used Norco optic frame a few years ago and somebody had the audacity to red Loctite one of the frame bolts when I did his bearings and I was still able to get it out without breaking the hardware versus I bought a spire frame and when I needed to do the bearings on it I rounded out or broke multiple hardware. Same thing with the Santa Cruz I’ve never broken any hardware taking off anything on a Santa Cruz but I’ve broken a bunch on multiple transitions that I’ve owned. I’m wondering, does it really cost that much more money to put slightly nicer hardware in your Bike?
also I’m pretty sure that the warranty from your bike manufacturer is actually warranty through the carpet manufacturer like VIP composites or whoever makes your frames again I could be totally wrong about this, but I remember hearing that from a few guys. The bike manufacturers just paying for some warehouse space
Why are we comparing Yeti ($5,000 frame) and Transition ($3,500 frame)? I originally compared Transition to Santa Cruz since their prices are closer, their customers overlap a bit, and warranty support are similarly good.
Why are we comparing Yeti ($5,000 frame) and Transition ($3,500 frame)? I originally compared Transition to Santa Cruz since their prices are closer, their customers overlap...
Why are we comparing Yeti ($5,000 frame) and Transition ($3,500 frame)? I originally compared Transition to Santa Cruz since their prices are closer, their customers overlap a bit, and warranty support are similarly good.
The yeti one is definitely overpriced, they haven’t yet figured out how to guide the internal routing all the way like most brands instead of forcing people to stick their hands inside the frames to guide to light 😓
Plenty of experience and expertise. I deal with this stuff and the resulting problems daily. Because I'm in it deeper I find problems that most people...
Plenty of experience and expertise. I deal with this stuff and the resulting problems daily. Because I'm in it deeper I find problems that most people never know exist. But that's okay.
Kasper Woolley is running a non standard Suntour Voro Coil on his zerode. Noticed while scrolling through my photos from the open this weekend. Lots of fast people running the Suntour stuff.
I've got a real rumor, Kasper Woolley is running a non standard Suntour Voro Coil on his zerode. Noticed while scrolling through my photos from the open...
I've got a real rumor,
Kasper Woolley is running a non standard Suntour Voro Coil on his zerode. Noticed while scrolling through my photos from the open this weekend. Lots of fast people running the Suntour stuff.
Looks like he is using DVO Jade parts on the Suntour shock
If you're doing the sharpie thing to use a shock that isn't your sponsors, why would you choose that one?
You can drop a Jade DH compression assembly straight in to a Voro so 99% of the shock is still Voro. Even the BV piston is the same, the main thing is a different low speed adjuster design and adding a High Speed adjuster to the shim stack
I've got a real rumor, Kasper Woolley is running a non standard Suntour Voro Coil on his zerode. Noticed while scrolling through my photos from the open...
I've got a real rumor,
Kasper Woolley is running a non standard Suntour Voro Coil on his zerode. Noticed while scrolling through my photos from the open this weekend. Lots of fast people running the Suntour stuff.
If you're doing the sharpie thing to use a shock that isn't your sponsors, why would you choose that one?
Maybe because the Jade is made at the SunTour factory, as the rest of the DVO products? I bought a SunTour TriAir a few years ago, and when I disassembled it to service it, the main piston wasn't anodized in SR Blue, but in DVO's signature green.
Dude, collaboration is not unique to engineering. Inter and intra specialty collaboration is surprisingly normal in the world at large, especially when people are working on a common outcome.
I think where you might get that perception is how you tend to be combative with so many people.
Lol. I didn't say it was unique to Engineering.
“The whole engineering world is more collaborative than most outside it would ever know.”
Yes that's what I wrote. It does not say what you thought it said.
I now see what people were warning against in regards to @Dougal - SC...
I think transition simply believes there is a certain quality in quantity in bike frames. A lot of riders will never notice their slightly misaligned rear end or put the forces on the bike to really cause an issue.
On the other hand they sell a lot of crash replacement frames and honor a lot of warranties. They need to store/ship those extra frames. And a slightly cheaper frame makes that affordable to them and the consumer. I don’t think your average transition rider is looking for the best frame. They are looking to invest in riding culture and to know if they throw their bike off a drop they can get a replacement for a price they can afford. And I imagine if you bust out the calipers and hit up the warranty department they will probably work with ya to make ya happy if you just spent 2.5-3.5k on a bike frame.
I also think many of the brands that do claim to have the best frames and the in house engineers have had plenty of misses they ran with or made compromises based on the desires of marketing and management. Or have had serious design and manufacturing flaws that ended up in hands of consumers and they ultimately disregarded said consumers complaints. Where as transition has been pretty quick to respond to both changing technology (literally kind of led the charge on modern geo in production frames) and customer preferences (nixing head set cable routing on repeater or updating the recent tr11 and releasing bottlerocket to solve issues with the last one).
Ultimately they make customers happy and the profits are largely invested in awesome bike riders and trails. I’m much more interested in paying for that than a bike that performs 10 percent better. But I’d only put my transitions maybe a few percent behind the best of the competition. Funnily enough for the years transition actually was a catalog brand enough people had the same mindset for them to become what they are today.
Also outing a specific person without saying their name is still name dropping. If I say the guy who played iron man used to have a drug problem it doesn’t exactly take a genius to figure out I’m talking about Robert Downie jr.
Very few engineers use the products they actually design and/or manufacture. Guess I’m supposed to throw a F1 reference in there?
Are you serious? This is pushing cancel culture to whole new level if so. You may not like him, but unless he is breaking the rules of forum he has every right to post here just like you and me. If he bothers you so much just use the ignore function.
As you mentioned, this is old information by many years and product cycles. Yeti does all their engineering work in house from kinematic to ID, FEA and carbon layup along with custom suspension tuning. They do partner with a vendor in Asia for production but all the main work is done in Golden.
You can hear a lot of what goes on direct from the main man there in this interview You Think You Understand MTB Suspension? Think Again | Yeti Cycles, Peter 'Stretch' Zawistowski
You can also look at their Linkedin page to see exactly who and how many people are working there to confirm this. The Design and Engineering team is bigger than the Marketing team from what I remember.
Quick example and I appreciate everybody’s insight on this as well, but my friend bought a used Norco optic frame a few years ago and somebody had the audacity to red Loctite one of the frame bolts when I did his bearings and I was still able to get it out without breaking the hardware versus I bought a spire frame and when I needed to do the bearings on it I rounded out or broke multiple hardware. Same thing with the Santa Cruz I’ve never broken any hardware taking off anything on a Santa Cruz but I’ve broken a bunch on multiple transitions that I’ve owned. I’m wondering, does it really cost that much more money to put slightly nicer hardware in your Bike?
also I’m pretty sure that the warranty from your bike manufacturer is actually warranty through the carpet manufacturer like VIP composites or whoever makes your frames again I could be totally wrong about this, but I remember hearing that from a few guys. The bike manufacturers just paying for some warehouse space
Why are we comparing Yeti ($5,000 frame) and Transition ($3,500 frame)? I originally compared Transition to Santa Cruz since their prices are closer, their customers overlap a bit, and warranty support are similarly good.
Carbon design and warranty issues and Bickering About it. Now back to Tech Rumors!
Hey man, you are derailing the fuck out of this thread. This thread is for "tech rumors and innovation".
If you want to have pointless pedantic arguments with people, make your own thread for that.
The yeti one is definitely overpriced, they haven’t yet figured out how to guide the internal routing all the way like most brands instead of forcing people to stick their hands inside the frames to guide to light 😓
There are like 3 completely idiotic conversations happening at once here.
I’m assuming the three downvotes mean “this thread was never good” lol
I miss gearbox talk now.
But Pirelli releasing 3 new tires very soon with some interesting names. Curious if they have jumped onto the radial train
Scorpion Blacksting
Scorpion Emperor
Scorpion Red Claw
Was this the example?
Not that I care, but pretty sure Toyota's are partly designed in the US
I've got a real rumor,
Kasper Woolley is running a non standard Suntour Voro Coil on his zerode. Noticed while scrolling through my photos from the open this weekend. Lots of fast people running the Suntour stuff.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DdRn56HCRmw/?stkn=bHh1cmVxaWx4em9s
Something new from Magura in a couple of days
to everyone bummed on the discussions and derailment, there is that novel idea of starting unique threads for unique topics.
Looks like he is using DVO Jade parts on the Suntour shock
You're right, upon further review looks like it's just a jade with suntour stickers. Looks to be almost the exact same shock.
If you're doing the sharpie thing to use a shock that isn't your sponsors, why would you choose that one?
I would bet my whole fleet of bikes on it still being plastic bullshit that will break when a pixie farts 2 miles away.
I think the only person more stubborn than the twinloc guy at Scott is the "maguras must be plastic bullshit" guy.
You can drop a Jade DH compression assembly straight in to a Voro so 99% of the shock is still Voro. Even the BV piston is the same, the main thing is a different low speed adjuster design and adding a High Speed adjuster to the shim stack
Stanchion color is different. I like it
Maybe because the Jade is made at the SunTour factory, as the rest of the DVO products? I bought a SunTour TriAir a few years ago, and when I disassembled it to service it, the main piston wasn't anodized in SR Blue, but in DVO's signature green.
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