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All I wish for is Bosch to slim down their batteries so Bosch-equipped bikes looked as sharp as Avinox bikes, but kept everything else that's already great about the Bosch system. I don't need nor want more power as I already burn through batteries being a heavy rider even when using Eco mode frequently, but e-bikes with huge downtubes just look generationally outdated from a design perspective even if they are just as good if not better than Avinox-equipped bikes from a performance and tech perspective.
I do agree but I also like a removable battery so i can take it on my rack without being way over the weight limit - my insurance wont cover if the bike is overweight an the rack breaks.
Where did Shimano hurt you? Or are you just that much into Avinox?
Afaik you can set up Shimano motors with tools like Stunlocker or Emax without having to visit a dealer. At least that was possible with the e8000 until Shimano introduced some restrictions for unlocking support for higher speeds in the last firmware iterations. But I believe Shimano motors are still not as thouroughly dongled as other motors. Otherwise companies like Emax couldn't operate anymore.
Slim downtube also means that the battery has to be longer which raises the center of gravity which is bad for handling. Yeah, a nice looking bike is cool and all but I'd rather have good handling tbh. If you want big capacity batteries the cells have to go somwhere...
I wish reviewers would take that aspect more into account because with my experiences how an ebike handles has a lot of do how much weight is placed in specific ways. Most reviewers only address a chunky bike with something like 'I didn't feel the weight' or at most 'the bike felt a bit harder to maneuver in twisty corners'.
Since I ride with a small frame bag for a tube and tools in my front triangle and two sizes of batteries I can feel every combination in how the bike handles and big battery plus frame bag is too much in the sense how I can correct the bike when I get off line/off camber and its tipping past the point of no return.
"Also, apparently Bosch is going to match Avinox power levels soon"
Looking forward to hearing what Hans has got to say about that. 🤣
You can downgrade the firmware to use stunlocker , etc pretty easily without the dealer dongle. I had to do it twice, once to correct for mullet wheel size, and again because Shimano sent me an RMA motor with EU firmware. 🤮Otherwise it won't net you much gains. You can cheat the wheelsize for more mph but the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
"No Way!"
That's a great call out, and I 100% agree that handling is much more important than a good looking frame. I should have specified that in my post, but until battery tech becomes more power dense I don't think it'll be possible to meet all of this criteria at the same time, but 🤞
If they manage to further miniaturize motors and make them heat resistant you could design an ascetic bottom bracket area and a light frame with slide out batteries at the bottom of the downtube. That way you could also add different length batteries and storage on top and the rider would have the choice about center of gravity.
Yeah no problem at all. You can buy EP8 replacement motors brand new for $300 on aliexpress.
SHIMANO STEPS EP8 EP801 EP800 Mid-Ship Drive Unit US Class 3 Device Supports CAN ACC Ports E-bike Parts DU-EP801-CRG Cargo Bike - AliExpress 18
Hope that helps
so let's say i have an orbea rise, and my motors dies. i buy this motor. who will set it up with the original rs software?
Any shop that services shimano motors should be able to set it up with standard shimano software. You might need to visit an Orbea dealer if you are set on the RS software as that is orbea specific.
I have the standard shimano EP8 software and found that I am fine with the level of adjustments offered by that app.
One thing people often forget with dual crowns on ebikes is turning radius. Having gone from 56mm offset to 46mm offset on my Boxxer on my park bike (Patrol with dropper for pedaling) the turning radius diff is very noticeable and has pigeon-holed it into a bike that I no longer climb singletrack on. NBD on a park build, but on an ebike where the downtube is now twice as wide and the problem is even worse. Of course none of this matters if you just ride fire roads up, but turning around and riding your ebike back up the gnarly descent you just did is one of the spices that makes the extra weight and complexity of eebs worth it to me.
The lower trail of the 46mm offset crowns is well worth it as I found 56mm really twitchy especially hopping between trail and ebike with 44mm offset. I'll always have a dual crown park bike but the Zebs and 38s are so good for 95% of situations on DH trails on the ebike. It would not be worth it at all to have the twitchy handling of a 56mm offset dual crown to combat the bad turning radius.
An upside down fork could be the best of both worlds to get you closer to that dual crown feel. Watch this space.
Yeah I tried my Boxxer on my Reign E+ and didn’t love it, went back to the 180mm Zeb.
The public has spoken, they prefer skinny downtubes over better handling. Even though many have documented that lowering the weight in this place is very noticeable and in a good way.
My personal opinion is that Bosch should offer a skinny 800 (or more) battery to match what Avinox is doing as an option for the manufacturers. They can still offer the fat 800 if they prefer.
I'm susceptible as well to the fashion statement. I wanted a 600w battery and I didn't want my bike to look pregnant and obviously be an e-bike. If the LTe had a narrow frame designed for a skinny battery, even if it came with an 800 and I could have installed a 600 and had a nice-looking bike. I would have bought it. As it was, I ordered a Wild and the fact that the downtube was designed around the 600w powertube was a factor. Also, the skinny downtubes are in fact lighter just in frame material.
I think that Transition, Santa Cruz & others that have <50# Bosch e-bikes, if a customer could drop an 800w right into that same frame, they'd sell a lot more of those bikes. Complaints about being limited to 600w is a common topic.
Also, more power dense batteries will be released. Would be nice to be able to retrofit a denser battery pack in to the narrow 600w powertube space
Probably would make sense to have larger batteries on larger size bikes. The riders are usually larger and stronger after all.
Lastly, Avinox has bots spamming e-bike reviews and most of the reviews by influencers are being pre-reviewed by Avinox before being published in exchange for access to product, which is how many make their living and grow their channel. It's a conflict of interest. Alex the Bike Tester gets all of these posts praising the Avinox motors in his comments and they will get more thumbs ups, than the videos have views in the beginning. These posts get shifted up due to the likes so then it seems like that's the consensus. The Chinese play dirty. If you dig into real user experiences, they are not nearly as glowing.
This is why I intentionally choose Bosch.
I agree with all of this, and the current situation just has me sitting on the fence waiting for Bosch to respond, rather than jumping on an Avinox that may or may not prove to be riskier from a service perspective depending on how long term warranty and parts availability plays out.
The Chinese play dirty? Have we not come to the point where we realize all money guys play dirty? It’s called “being good at business,” unfortunately. I know we were taught differently but dude. Singling out The Chinese is bonkers!
Ten years ago I was asked, in writing, to go on Amazon to pump up positive reviews when I was at the bike company. I couldn’t believe it but nobody around really thought it was anything untoward. Luckily my slimeball director was also a total coward so I was allowed to just laugh at the sales group who’d brought it up.
also: everyone knows we are on e-bikes. It’s okay hahahahah
Stunlocker or Emax. Emax is more expensive but they have a very good support. The Orbea rs is just a throttled ep8/801 via software. The hardware is identical. And I think with the Emax software you can put it in either mode.
I mean before Avinox we had Bosch fan boys but that was more of a german thing and way smaller in scale . Since avinox came up you will have basically Spammers that spam some unrelated avinox shit under every article that isn't even related.
It's also telling that the rattle got lied about by most reviewers/influencers. They said the motor is totally silent. But that was also the case with bosch when the Cx4 came out.
I think that certain groups really understand the power of propaganda and utilize it more effectively. It's been an important tool to attack the West, politically and financially, for about a decade now.
It's quite sad that so many, a majority maybe, fall for it.
Both sides of any conflict use propaganda, It's proven as a useful tool and it's always been the case (at least since the start of The Great War).
Speaking of propagana (and tools)...😂
Russia engages in hybrid warfare against the west since at least two decades. And its very effective (energy, culture war, NATO). China isn't so much about culture war stuff but more about classic economical espionage and protectionist economy politics. Its more subtle than russia but very effective, especially in developing countries and in the terms of trade routes.
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink
"I have to admit, I'm always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up," the CIA agent says.
"Thank you," the KGB says. "We do our best but truly, it's nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them."
The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. "Thank you friend, but you must be confused... There's no propaganda in America."
Anyway. Does anyone have a list of what Avinox powered bikes are rumored to be unveiled in the coming months?
When I was at school (admittedly we're talking over 40 years ago) we were taught about the Crusades. The way it was taught was very much pro Crusaders, we were the knights in shining armour going over there to teach the heathens a lesson (is it just me or does that have a ring of familiarity to it?). Anyone who can be bothered to look into it will tell you that very much wasn't the case. Muslims,Christians and Jews lived in relative harmony in Jerusalem, while the Crusaders sacked Christian citadels who didn't support them and there is even documented evidence of cannibalism perpetrated by the Crusaders. None of that ever showed up in any school books I was ever shown.
That's pro Christian propaganda that continued for around 900 years. I'd like to think that things have changed by now, but I wouldn't be too surprised if they haven't.
Sorry for the derail, it's over from my end.
Another new Crestline, 50x. Frame only and complete.
https://crestlinebikes.com/shop/rs-181-2-team-edition-complete/
way to go, he explicitly asked not to share this in social media...
Crestline seems to want to become the Berghain of the mtb world...
They're posted on the internet to buy, for anyone, nothing really secretive about that.
I don't know whether to be alarmed or relieved that bikes are so homogenized that even aventon can release one.
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