Any tips for getting these mavens running right, I’ve worked with many awkward brakes over the last 30 years but these ones are definatley the winner for the most awkward. Came stock on a new build Stumpjumper 15 (I would never buy them as I knew they’d be trouble) I have watched every video on the web and bled them all different ways but can’t seem to get them to stop pumping out, first lever pull is fine but they just pump out further and further with quicker repeated pulls. I know it’s air in the system just can’t imagine how. I’d started with a new sram bleed kit which when pulling a vacuum pulled in air all over the place, even the plunger seal was pulling massive amounts of air in. Bought a bleed kit of epic bleed solutions for half the price and it’s been much better but still not getting ride of that pump out feeling. Any tips would be really appreciated
Have you tried following the bleed manual on the SRAM site which can be found here?
Using a standard SRAM bleed kit and the recommended Maxima Mineral oil, it worked great for me on a set of Maven Silvers.
Done all those things but as yet to no avail, it’s minus 6C here at the minute but I guess I have another night in the workshop bleeding these things through again 😂
Have you checked the torque on the compression nut at the master cylinder. It not torqued adequately then it will allow air into the system.
I haven't owned Mavens, only worked on them on other peoples bikes. After reading some other Maven threads, I think one issue is the Maxima fluid tends to absorb a lot more air than other mineral oils. Using the degassing step that was common in SRAM's DOT fluid instructions may help get air out of the fluid before adding it to the system.
You may also try leaving a bleed funnel (or just a hose with some fluid in it) on the lever with some fluid and strap the lever blade down to the bar to pressurize the system. Leave it pressurized for a long time (up to a couple hours) and then pump the lever. I have found it works well with road Shimano systems where there is air trapped in hard to reach places in the lever.
Let us know if you find any other resources that help you figure it out. I'm always on the lookout for new bleed techniques.
In addition to the suggestion of rechecking fittings/connections. One trick that worked for me was to squeeze the lever to the bar and use a toe strap or something similar to hold it there overnight…The next morning I redid the lever bleed (removed the pads and installed the block but left the bleeding edge syringe out) and was able to evacuate more air. I was surprised how much I removed after thinking I’d gotten all the air out through the bleed process. Good luck!
That method really helps Shimano brakes But they eventually go funny.
I've never bled brakes more than a set/s of shimano's.
TRP is always the Caliper unbalancing or leaking.
Im yet to have an issue with Mavens thankfully.
You need the nice bleed kit with the glass syringes and make sure those plunger seals are in great shape, if not then you're screwed. Having used both the shitty plastic ones and the nice glass syringes in the pro bleed kit it makes a huge difference in the degassing step. The plastic syringes just don't hold the vacuum you need to degass the maxima mineral oil they use.
Do NOT push fluid up through the caliper to the lever, as there's usually a bubble that gets formed when you put on the bleeding edge connector. As it says in the sram brake bleed video and in their manual, you push fluid down through the lever and pull it back up via the vacuum you generate at the lever. This is the key, and while it doesn't sound like much, this "only pushing/pulling from the lever" changed got rid of ALL my maven problems across 3 sets of brakes. Also do the piston massage with the syringe attached, pushing fluid and pulling a vacuum throughout the process.
Having done all that I have been amazed with the length I can get out of a maven bleed. Usually a couple sets of pads.
Edit: I also have tried the pinner machine cups and the Shimano overnight bleed cup trick and I can say that its been a sure fire way for me to make the mavens feel like crap and pull to bar randomly. Your milage may vary but it just does not work in my experience.
Agreed with all this plus tapping or vibrating the brake hoses to break up the bubbles into smaller bubbles and get them moving up and out.
I don't know if this is related but Loris Vergier mentioned in WynTV at the Poland WC that the team were struggling with brake issues in the cold weather. The team also used Mavens. My guess is that the seal materials available for mineral oil are more influenced by temperature than those for DOT fluid.
Tips to get the levers to feel really tight is after completing your normal bleed, leave the syringe on the caliper in place. With everything closed up at the master cylinder, open the port on the caliper and push about 2 to 3 cc's of fluid into the system and close the port. Have a rag handy when disconnecting the syringe as a bit of fluid squirts out.
This is an approved method that I know of, but it's a trick that a lot of mechanics use to dial in there racers lever feel.
Yes - Sram Maven's are really, really, really finicky to get operating perfectly. To an infuriating degree.
They are reasonable to get feeling "OK", but "OK" doesn't cut it for me (although I think it does for most folks). My Saints are infinitely easier, and when the lever does start to fluctuate a bit, a 60s lever bleed and freethrow screw twist gets them feeling 100% again.
what? - pretty simple really, bleed, massage aggressively, check bleed, draw a little vacuum on caliper... Repressure system and let balance, close up, done.
When aligning pads/rotor, Pull aggressively to get the distance... every couple of rides pull the levers hard make sure pistons are advancing.
I've seen a few guys who drag their brakes with little pressure have issues and a simple Hard few pulls on the levers make them feel fine again.... doesnt it actually say this in the Manual?
If you follow this... no issues and simple stuff.
Finally cracked them. They are perfect now. Bled the lever first with the caliper still connected to syringe, closed it up, took the caliper off and held it so the bleed port was upright and vacuum bled it with the syringe and hose sitting straight up, I think most of my problems stemmed from the bleed kit being rubbish, I’ve bled loads of brands over the last couple of decades and could always get them good but the sram bleed kit i had seemed to pull in a tonne of air, so much so that you ended up pushing some back in, the cheap bleed kit I bought was much better as long as you kept pressure on the bleeding edge fitting.
When squeezing the lever to the bar - how hard are you pulling? I'd heard before that pulling too hard can burst the master cylinder seal? Not convinced but interested to hear thoughts..
I'm guessing the tip about not pushing up through the caliper also applies to other systems bled with 2 syringes?
Not sure what the issue with pushing up through the caliper is, I've had no problems doing that, even running a vacuum-free bleed with a Pinner bleed cup. For me the issue with the caliper syringe comes when you try to pull a hard vacuum - it easily overwhelms the tiny Bleeding Edge o-ring and sucks air in, which then dissolves in the heavy oil. Likewise, pulling too hard on the MC syringe with the heavy stock Maxima mineral oil can pull air in from that same Bleeding Edge o-ring seal. I feel like the #1 issue with bleeding using the stock oil comes from pulling too hard of a vacuum, overwhelming seals, sucking more air in, which then gets easily dissolved into the high viscosity oil. It's possible to get good bleeds using the stock syringes and oil if you do very gentle vacuums like the SRAM instructions say, but you've got to be very patient and do many, many exchanges. Or do away with the Maxima oil and use a low viscosity oil and a bleed cup and get perfect bleeds in 2-3 passes of fluid.
I would say just enough pressure for pad contact, not a death grip. I’ve only used this after exhausting all other methods, I have had great success performing the ol piston massage. I’ve also heard that hanging the bike front wheel up is another method but I’ve not tried that one myself
Ive also got a set on a new bike that have been a nightmare and Ive not yet been able to figure it out. They start out working well but after the first notable descent, the contact point slowly starts migrating to the bar.
Already done 2 rounds of full bleeds and "piston massaging" and still have the same issue. Ive got extensive experiece with lots of different brake systems including full MC/Caliper rebuilds and yet these things are stumping me. There's certainly no air in the system or MC res as the symptom would indicate. Rear brake is working like a champ but this front one has me stumped.
not a thing on the Intends, you ARE supposed to do that on them, 1-2 cycles and they are as advertised. Everything mentioned in this thread is not an issue with them. You get what you pay for…
Common issues I've seen.
Brake fluid old and dirty. Keep it clean, change it at the first sign of color change. Just like in your suspension, the condition of the fluid in the brake systems is critical to the performance of the system.
Wrong pad choice and rotor size selection. Your brakes have a heat range that they work best in. This takes experimenting, with all brakes to find the best performance.
Pistons out of alignment. There is always a slight pressure difference between the outboard and inboard side of the caliper. Dirty pistons also contribute to this.
Worn brake hoses. Either in that they have been bent excessively in a crash or are just old. This tends to be one of the biggest culprits that I see with mystery brake fade. And there doesn't even have to be a sign of a exterior leak. A lot of fluid can disappear into the space between the inner and outer liner before you see the leak. Big time issue with internally routed brake hoses since they can be more difficult to change so a lot of times they don't get changed. And hoses are definitely a wear item.
Sometimes a bad brake slips through. Definitely have seen that, but with all makes and models.
I must be an outsider since i just did exact follow the sram bleeding video and had nothing but great brakes with my mavens. Its so good that i now have a hard time when i ride my other bike with dominions, wich also is absolutly a flawless brake.
Dude look at that video! That is objectively a fucking annoying bleed process. Huge PITA. I nearly died when bro said "I've done this up to twenty times" when referring to the back-and-forth"
And don't even get me going on how easily the fluid aerates or the massive mess after it splooges out when disconnecting on the pressurized system
??? - again what? I've never done it 20 times, maybe 6. im at like 8 months with several pad swaps, no bleeds no wandering point, no leaks etc
what mess? i only ever had a tiny bit come out when i disconnect the lever syringe.
Have 1 set of ultimate's and 2 sets of bases, Zero issues, installed, bled, massaged, essentially burped the caliper, closed up and not touched them since.
Hey, look - if Your struggling to do this simple process, maybe just go back to the easy shimano and just deal with less power.
It's a time consuming, messy, inconsistent bleed process, with infuriating self-aerating fluid.
I'm not some hamfisted ogre as you seem to be insinuating and have been bleeding many different brakes to over the decades. Lots of people aren't as particular as I am when it comes to lever feel... Dare I suggest that perhaps your bleeds wouldn't quite live up to my expectations?
I understand that folks are really keen to swing from sram's testicles, but despite your loud gutteral vocalizations, it's hardly unfair to categorize these brakes as being "really really annoying to work on" relative to others on the market.
Yes the power is great, but I can't wait to switch back to Shimano once the new Saints are released.
EDIT: F%$k it, ignorance is bliss right.
"I understand that folks are really keen to swing from sram's testicles, but despite your loud gutteral vocalizations, it's hardly unfair to categorize these brakes as being "really really annoying to work on" relative to others on the market."
Ahh I see pinkbike commenters have found Vital. Well we had a good run didn't we?
As far as my experience, I'll happily take Maven's slightly more involved bleed process I need to do once in a while than Shimano's constant cravings for lever bleeds or the abject hell that is dealing with Maguras. But to each their own. I'll take the ease/reduced mess of bleeding edge and syringes that screw in over bleed cups any day of the week.
And just a personal side note, can we really try to not demonize or insult people for having opinions?
There is someone in Germany getting custom bleed fittings fabricated. They replace the bleeding edge fitting during bleed for a truly air-tight seal to get a good vacuum bleed, and then bleeding edge is reinstalled at the end.
I have his fitting for the DOT bleeding edge calipers, not sure if he is fabricating ones to fit the new size bleeding edge mineral oil port.
He also made a Shimano version to replace the bleed nipple on the calipers for a better seal.
Link?
Spoke with the person developing the bleed fittings. He doesn't deal with the Mavens where he is, so hasn't been able to measure the bleed fittings. The assumption is that all models of Mavens and Motive brakes that use the bleeding edge fitting are using the same bleed port thread pitch, diameter, and head angle. But this should be verified.
If anyone wants to remove the bleed port screw completely and measure the thread pitch and diameter and take a good photo of the whole screw it would help verify cross compatibility between Maven and Motive calipers.
The bleeding edge is definitely the weak point, I know sram don’t want you to pull a vacuum on the calliper but it really is a good way to get these brakes bled or at least it was the only way I could get the brakes to work for me. The problem I had is with the calliper still mounted on the bike while trying to pull a vacuum with the syringe upright the bleeding edge sucks in air, likely because the bend on the hose was causing the fitting to be pulled to one side slightly. The solution was take the calliper off after closing the lever up, hold it in my hand so the syringe and hose where completely upright and pull a light vacuum while pushing down on the syringe wings to keep pressure on the fitting. This got me the solid bleed I was after.
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