Shimano/TRP Maven - S-tier braking (Shaven/Traven)

Super interested to see how this one pans out. It's going to be pretty hard to deny the rigidity of the Maven caliper with the 4 clamping bolts placed close to the pistons and generally chonk castings. The prototype Saint brakes seem to be using a similar construction philosophy. 

I've had my own wandering bite point and bleeding issues with my Mavens at the end of this season so I think bite point consistency generally comes down to quality of bleed and hose connection points more than anything. 

For what its worth I also had a maddening wandering bite point issue on my mavens; took a really good bleed and its been remedied. Bleed quality is everything.

Wow I've been thinking about trying this but wasn't sure it was possible - thank you for starting this thread! Following because I've been on the fence about replacing my SLXTs with Maven base or bronze but that doesn't feel janky enough.

Curious about the bleed - do you need something special for the Maven caliper? or could my generic bleed kit from amazon take care of it

I built a slx lever with a maven caliper for a client after he broke his lever (we didn't have a replacement on hand). I found that there was less power on tap than a full maven setup. 
With that in mind I'm currently building a Sragura, Maven silver lever with Magura caliper. I think the lever is where the power comes from.

Word on the street is that they still wander.

I'd be more interested in a trp dhr evo lever/maven caliper mashup.

The venn diagram overlap of "has enough money to mess around with expensive parts and has an expensive bike" and "does not own proper hex keys or a bike stand" is maddening.  

I have yet to buy a t handle torx wrench. I also want to kick the dumb ass at SRAM  in the balls that decided to use torx 

Many prior bmx’ers like working on bikes inside down. I have 2 nice stands and hardly use them. 

For the record. My new bike with maven bronze out of the box. I did the piston massage and they felt great. After 1 ride they needed to be pumped before a good bite point was achieved. I did a lever bleed and it fixed 90% of it. Did a full bleed with another piston massage and now they are dead on. 

I am also curious to install a different lever as I prefer to have an "on the fly" contact point adjustment. Shimano levers seem like a good option and hose from the mavens should work just fine. 

brian cahal just dropped a vid on the same topic (on patreon)

They spent all their money on bikes and parts. 

I fought this on 3 sets of Mavens and was driving myself mad. They would be perfect for some random length of time and then go to complete shit. I tried everything everyone recommended and nothing made it better, and things like the bleed cups actually made it worse.

Before giving up, I rewatched the SRAM maven bleed video one last time and decided to follow it exactly. Mainly focusing on not pushing through the caliper, but pushing through the lever and pulling via a vacuum at the lever. It was a revelation. Pulling a strong vacuum from the lever made a night and day difference. After doing that, the bleed has been solid and absolutely no signs of the wandering bite point. Also investing in the glass syringe bleed kit makes a big difference as the seals are more air tight so you can pull a better vacuum. 

I do think the green SRAM mineral oil dissolves air more readily than other oils out there, which makes the lever vacuum paramount. 

Personally I want to know what those 4-Piston Hope mineral oil calipers would be like with several different levers 

100% my experience. 

I also used Magura mineral oil (just what I had). Not sure if that helps, or not. 

But yeah, take your time with the bleed, do it right, I bet it solves the issue. Maven Base is for sure my favorite brake.

SRAM is on the 3rd version of their mineral oil bleed kit. Talked to the SRAM rep and one thing they changed is the syringe diameter to get a better vacuum. If I have the same issue with needing frequent bleeds, I will probably try another fluid. Maybe Shimano's low-viscosity oil.

I've had really good experiences using Redline Like Water in place of mineral oil (in Mavens).  The lower viscosity doesn't hold bubbles as easily, so a standard bottom-up bleed with a cup works really well.  I just built up a new bike moving parts from my old one, which included a new caliper (because I fucked up the old one - unrelated), and first bleed on that dry caliper has been 100% solid.

I have also heard very good things about this, and was going to try it with a friend in his Magura's and my XT's but for some reason Like Water is extremely hard to get in Canada, and we would have had to order in bulk which was too much. 

I do wonder if the new Shimano low visc mineral oil would help in this case in other brakes. I may have to try it in my min oil brakes. 

But also, as mentioned by a few others, Hayes Dominion's fixed every issue I ever had with any other brake without messing around, mismatching brands and parts or spending more money. Hands down the best brake/easiest to deal with I have ever tried for the same money.

Interesting. I was wondering why my hoses looked different than the videos. Connecting the hoses to the syringes was kind of a PITA. 

If I had to choose, it would be the period blood bleed cup all day instead of a syringe, BUT the bleeding edge configuration is VERY nice. 

I've had issues bleeding brakes with calipers that just had thread on syringes. TRP, Hayes, etc. 

Hey all, I've heard from people high up in engineering at Shimano and at SRAM that the seals can fail if you use the wrong mineral oil from a different brand. Basically the message was YOU COULD DIE, DON'T DO THIS.

Do you think that's true, or not? And forgive me if I've already asked this question.

Shimano has been very vague about the compatibility of its new brakes with its old mineral oil (and vice-versa).  I don't understand why.  Either they're compatible or they aren't, and why wouldn't Shimano know?

I have heard claims that mixing Magura and Shimano oil vs. brake (don't remember the direction) made the seals swell up a bit. 

On the other hand, outside a few different rubber compounds I kind of doubt anyone is making a special compound working with a specific oil choice and not working with a competitor oil. At the end of the day a lot of compatibility or resistance is defined by the base material, either oil or seal. On the third hand... As noted, it's Mineral oil. Which says almost nothing about the exact compound of it.

To be honest, the Shimano thing, I wouldn't be surprised if the leakage is connected more to seal shape, sealing lip thickness and preload against the surface, quality of the surface (flatness and smoothness) and general tolerancing of everything ensuring a good seal. So a mechanical leakage as opposed to a chemical compatibility causing a failure of the sealing material. 

But I have no idea what's actually going on, I'm just guessing. 

Are we talking wireless brakes dying or Hayes 9's on the 1st bleed in 15 years dying?

I believe the engineers when they say that mixing mineral oil / DOT fluids/seals is a bad thing, since they're quite different and DOT is so caustic.  Plus DOT being water soluble and mineral oil isn't, it's easy to understand that there's some pretty large chemical differences there which could cause different reactions to the rubber seals.  But I think different mineral-type oils is fine and their language is more about CYI from their lawyers and also them wanting their brakes to have the feel that they designed around.  I'd say the "you could die" bit is just due to it being related to brakes, and brake failures are kinda bad.

I'd be really curious to hear from an engineer why you'd WANT a higher viscosity oil in your brakes, given the associated penalties in getting a good bleed.  I'm guessing once you have a good bleed, it lasts longer between bleeds?  And probably has a harder time getting around seals?

Anyone use TRP evo pro levers with a different Caliper?
Im sick of these E23 calipers leaking but i really like the lever.