The Bikeconomics (Mega)Thread

rugbyred
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126
Joined
4/29/2012
Location
CA
11/22/2025 2:25pm
Regarding 30-60-90 day credit terms on components, the bike brands that we know often don't buy directly from component suppliers, instead the assembly factory purchases parts...

Regarding 30-60-90 day credit terms on components, the bike brands that we know often don't buy directly from component suppliers, instead the assembly factory purchases parts using their creditworthyness with the component manufacturers. An assembly factory may then extend credit to the brand. Less frequently (though not infrequently) bike brands import frames and assemble locally (you mentioned YT did this), this can save them from holding a depreciating inventory of components by acquiring them just in time, and it can allow them to offer multiple build levels or model years based on whatever frames they have available.

There have been a few occasions where assembly factories have bailed out (or bought out?) struggling bike brands to keep the wheels of commerce turning, probably calling it vertical integration. For a time Specialized was about 50% owned by assembly factory Merida; Kenstone who you mentioned in the pod is blood-related to Kenda Tires and owns Haro and Masi (I have no idea how that came about); and IIRC the customer facing brand side of Giant bikes kinda sorta came about as fallout from the collapse of Schwinn. My guess would be that extending credit within co-owned, vertically integrated, organizations could be relatively frictionless.

To be clear, I have no knowledge of YT, or whether anything like that is happening here; I'm just offering that there are many ways this sort of thing has played out in the past.

Side thought: how does YT's scale compare to Felt's of 10 years ago? @jeff.brines and @TEAMROBOT 's ship of Theseus analogy seems almost inadequate there, but I'm happier if some part of any bike company survives than none.

@Digit Bikes great post, really appreciate you sharing this! As to the Felt question, I honestly can't tell you. Robot might have a better feel, but...

@Digit Bikes great post, really appreciate you sharing this! As to the Felt question, I honestly can't tell you. Robot might have a better feel, but outside the Felt acquisition by Pierer Mobility during COVID, I don't have a ton of insight into how big they were. 

@ebikepartyshirt, CAST Touring and SNDR Products (different brands, same company, technically). We're in the process of building a new manufacturing facility here in the Tetons, which has me banging nails (or rather, driving metal screws) a lot of my day until this thing is dried in (see, I do "real work" too sometimes...). If things go well, a very small portion of the "plant" will hopefully also be my office and "podcast studio" (lol) come mid winter! Psyched! Anyway, I only mention it because its really fun to be around a business that is doing everything they can to manufacture as much of their product as possible locally.  

https://casttouring.com/
https://sndrproducts.com/

I’m currently looking at a Cast system for myself and my daughter. Just don’t want to deal with the duties when it crosses the border into Canada! Everything I have heard about them with the Look bindings sounds amazing. 
Good luck with your venture. 
 

2
MJT420
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Lake Ann, MI US
11/22/2025 3:26pm
lloyd506 wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, what is the yt mill? Is it simply a yt storefront assembly point? 
Using mill as a marketing term for a storefront ? 
 

hogfly wrote:
You could go rent/demo bikes for free from the Mills. Then you could order a bike from YT if you decided to buy. They also carried...

You could go rent/demo bikes for free from the Mills. Then you could order a bike from YT if you decided to buy. They also carried all the YT apparel and such for purchase at the store.  They also served as a social hub for parties with a bar, espresso machine, etc…

Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be an outrageous cost, pick a lane buds budget friendly direct to consumer or swanky experience people, they're not the same.

3
metadave
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Fantasy
11/22/2025 5:14pm
lloyd506 wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, what is the yt mill? Is it simply a yt storefront assembly point? 
Using mill as a marketing term for a storefront ? 
 

hogfly wrote:
You could go rent/demo bikes for free from the Mills. Then you could order a bike from YT if you decided to buy. They also carried...

You could go rent/demo bikes for free from the Mills. Then you could order a bike from YT if you decided to buy. They also carried all the YT apparel and such for purchase at the store.  They also served as a social hub for parties with a bar, espresso machine, etc…

MJT420 wrote:
Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be...

Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be an outrageous cost, pick a lane buds budget friendly direct to consumer or swanky experience people, they're not the same.

It doesn't sound incredibly different than the transition outpost, although maybe a bit more Ed Hardy with the tattoo place inside. I'd say a few bike brands have similar spots over all where you can meet up, check out the bikes, and have some beer/coffee/food.

5
owl-x
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Location
Shell Beach, CA US
11/22/2025 5:26pm
MJT420 wrote:
Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be...

Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be an outrageous cost, pick a lane buds budget friendly direct to consumer or swanky experience people, they're not the same.

hey I’m vehemently anti-YT right now but you can’t tell anybody not to serve beer what kind of monster are you?

2
11/22/2025 5:29pm
metadave wrote:
It doesn't sound incredibly different than the transition outpost, although maybe a bit more Ed Hardy with the tattoo place inside. I'd say a few bike...

It doesn't sound incredibly different than the transition outpost, although maybe a bit more Ed Hardy with the tattoo place inside. I'd say a few bike brands have similar spots over all where you can meet up, check out the bikes, and have some beer/coffee/food.

But usually other brands only have those kind of front-facing demo center at their HQ/main warehouse like Transition,Santa Cruz & Evil.

2
TEAMROBOT
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11/22/2025 6:24pm
1llumA wrote:

But usually other brands only have those kind of front-facing demo center at their HQ/main warehouse like Transition,Santa Cruz & Evil.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure you need a liquor license to give beer away at private events. I think you only need a liquor licence to sell alcohol.

I haven't been to the new Transition or Evil showrooms, and it's been a minute since I've been to the SCB showroom, but I didn't remember SCB having a bar that sold drinks at all times, I thought it was just a stocked fridge that they dipped into when they wanted to greet, treat, or wow someone. Not sure what the YT Mills had, but based on what else I've seen, I imagine the answer to that question is "everything possible."

1
11/22/2025 6:34pm
1llumA wrote:

But usually other brands only have those kind of front-facing demo center at their HQ/main warehouse like Transition,Santa Cruz & Evil.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure you need a liquor license to give beer away at private events. I think you only need...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure you need a liquor license to give beer away at private events. I think you only need a liquor licence to sell alcohol.

I haven't been to the new Transition or Evil showrooms, and it's been a minute since I've been to the SCB showroom, but I didn't remember SCB having a bar that sold drinks at all times, I thought it was just a stocked fridge that they dipped into when they wanted to greet, treat, or wow someone. Not sure what the YT Mills had, but based on what else I've seen, I imagine the answer to that question is "everything possible."

Free beer

2
Digit Bikes
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Irvine, CA US
11/22/2025 6:44pm Edited Date/Time 11/22/2025 11:11pm
Regarding 30-60-90 day credit terms on components, the bike brands that we know often don't buy directly from component suppliers, instead the assembly factory purchases parts...

Regarding 30-60-90 day credit terms on components, the bike brands that we know often don't buy directly from component suppliers, instead the assembly factory purchases parts using their creditworthyness with the component manufacturers. An assembly factory may then extend credit to the brand. Less frequently (though not infrequently) bike brands import frames and assemble locally (you mentioned YT did this), this can save them from holding a depreciating inventory of components by acquiring them just in time, and it can allow them to offer multiple build levels or model years based on whatever frames they have available.

There have been a few occasions where assembly factories have bailed out (or bought out?) struggling bike brands to keep the wheels of commerce turning, probably calling it vertical integration. For a time Specialized was about 50% owned by assembly factory Merida; Kenstone who you mentioned in the pod is blood-related to Kenda Tires and owns Haro and Masi (I have no idea how that came about); and IIRC the customer facing brand side of Giant bikes kinda sorta came about as fallout from the collapse of Schwinn. My guess would be that extending credit within co-owned, vertically integrated, organizations could be relatively frictionless.

To be clear, I have no knowledge of YT, or whether anything like that is happening here; I'm just offering that there are many ways this sort of thing has played out in the past.

Side thought: how does YT's scale compare to Felt's of 10 years ago? @jeff.brines and @TEAMROBOT 's ship of Theseus analogy seems almost inadequate there, but I'm happier if some part of any bike company survives than none.

@Digit Bikes great post, really appreciate you sharing this! As to the Felt question, I honestly can't tell you. Robot might have a better feel, but...

@Digit Bikes great post, really appreciate you sharing this! As to the Felt question, I honestly can't tell you. Robot might have a better feel, but outside the Felt acquisition by Pierer Mobility during COVID, I don't have a ton of insight into how big they were. 

@ebikepartyshirt, CAST Touring and SNDR Products (different brands, same company, technically). We're in the process of building a new manufacturing facility here in the Tetons, which has me banging nails (or rather, driving metal screws) a lot of my day until this thing is dried in (see, I do "real work" too sometimes...). If things go well, a very small portion of the "plant" will hopefully also be my office and "podcast studio" (lol) come mid winter! Psyched! Anyway, I only mention it because its really fun to be around a business that is doing everything they can to manufacture as much of their product as possible locally.  

https://casttouring.com/
https://sndrproducts.com/

My question was mostly rhetorical. I remember we spoke about Felt when Pierer started to look wobbly so I thought you'd like the thought exercise.

I'll bet Felt had 5x more SKU's, but I wouldn't know how to compare other aspects, they were in different segments and had different business models. I think I worked at Felt much longer than Charlie was sponsored.

2
hogfly
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Fayetteville, AR US
11/22/2025 9:07pm
lloyd506 wrote:

Maybe a dumb question, what is the yt mill? Is it simply a yt storefront assembly point? 
Using mill as a marketing term for a storefront ? 
 

hogfly wrote:
You could go rent/demo bikes for free from the Mills. Then you could order a bike from YT if you decided to buy. They also carried...

You could go rent/demo bikes for free from the Mills. Then you could order a bike from YT if you decided to buy. They also carried all the YT apparel and such for purchase at the store.  They also served as a social hub for parties with a bar, espresso machine, etc…

MJT420 wrote:
Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be...

Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be an outrageous cost, pick a lane buds budget friendly direct to consumer or swanky experience people, they're not the same.

Sorry. No spirits. Just beer/wine. And it was free. So licensing issues were probably minimal. Want to guess the wine? Decoy (which while not crazy expensive also isn’t crazy cheap). 

2
metadave
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Revelstoke, BC CA
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11/23/2025 9:38am
hogfly wrote:
You could go rent/demo bikes for free from the Mills. Then you could order a bike from YT if you decided to buy. They also carried...

You could go rent/demo bikes for free from the Mills. Then you could order a bike from YT if you decided to buy. They also carried all the YT apparel and such for purchase at the store.  They also served as a social hub for parties with a bar, espresso machine, etc…

MJT420 wrote:
Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be...

Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be an outrageous cost, pick a lane buds budget friendly direct to consumer or swanky experience people, they're not the same.

hogfly wrote:
Sorry. No spirits. Just beer/wine. And it was free. So licensing issues were probably minimal. Want to guess the wine? Decoy (which while not crazy expensive...

Sorry. No spirits. Just beer/wine. And it was free. So licensing issues were probably minimal. Want to guess the wine? Decoy (which while not crazy expensive also isn’t crazy cheap). 

If it wasn't Copper Moon served at room temp from a box, it's not even worth mentioning.

3
dolface
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CA US
11/23/2025 2:17pm
sspomer wrote:
The podcast with Jeff and Sponsel can be listened to below (or on any of your fave podcast channels...will hit homepage shortly, too)Topics Discussed0:00...

The podcast with Jeff and Sponsel can be listened to below (or on any of your fave podcast channels...will hit homepage shortly, too)

Topics Discussed

0:00 - Intro

1:22 - History of YT (note: Bentonville Mill was opened in 2024, not 2019)

16:38 - Disclaimers

19:27 - Restructuring/Bankruptcy Timeline

26:55 - Markus Flossmann’s Instagram Q&A Replies

30:44 - Is Markus a Sole Proprietor Now?

32:46 - Difference Between Debt and Equity

38:16 - YT’s Interesting Debt

41:48 - Did Big Spending Catch Up with YT?

47:09 - What About YT USA?

53:39 - Did the Change to In-House Bike Assembly Crush YT?

1:00:27 - How Will YT Have to Operate Now?

1:06:11 - YT and Marketing - Turning Negative into Positive?

1:09:39 - Will Markus Make Everyone Owed Money Whole?

1:13:25 - Markus Flossmann and His Public Persona

1:23:11 - Will Future Customers Actually Care About Any of This?

1:25:42 - YT Future Hurdles

1:33:07 - The Christopher Walken Jeffsy Video

1:41:27 - Bike Culture vs. Tech Bro Culture

Finally found time to listen to this and it was great! Thank you for taking the time to research and record it, I know it's a lot of work!

1
jeff.brines
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Grand Junction, CO US
11/23/2025 2:56pm Edited Date/Time 11/23/2025 2:56pm

I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present. 

unnamed %284%29

 

7
12
11/23/2025 3:18pm
I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present.   

I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present. 

unnamed %284%29

 

AI needs to learn to count. Where is phase 3?

23
11/23/2025 3:46pm
I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present.   

I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present. 

unnamed %284%29

 

lloyd506 wrote:

AI needs to learn to count. Where is phase 3?

It used the South Park underwear gnomes episode as inspiration..

12
metadave
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11/23/2025 4:47pm
I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present.   

I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present. 

unnamed %284%29

 

lloyd506 wrote:

AI needs to learn to count. Where is phase 3?

It used the South Park underwear gnomes episode as inspiration..

Yes, according to the Gnomes I believe that was supposed to be the profit phase, which was skipped in this situation.

11
11/23/2025 5:21pm
metadave wrote:

Yes, according to the Gnomes I believe that was supposed to be the profit phase, which was skipped in this situation.

Step 1: collect underwear 

Step 3: profit

6
LePigPen
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11/23/2025 6:26pm

This really begs the question. Did Markus ultimately buy all leftover auctions or bid up the stuff he wanted in that whole EU auction thingy? 

1
jeff.brines
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Grand Junction, CO US
11/23/2025 6:38pm
I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present.   

I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present. 

unnamed %284%29

 

lloyd506 wrote:

AI needs to learn to count. Where is phase 3?

Whoops! First time playing with the new Google image model. I tweaked the output after generating the first variant and accidentally introduced that bug (missing phase 3). FWIW, I spot-checked a few numbers and it’s accurate. You all might not be as impressed as I am, but being able to visualize data this quickly and correctly is a huge unlock for anyone working with otherwise eye glazingly boring financial data. 

7
ballz
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11/23/2025 6:46pm
metadave wrote:

Yes, according to the Gnomes I believe that was supposed to be the profit phase, which was skipped in this situation.

Step 1: collect underwear 

Step 3: profit

I love a good tautology.

2
metadave
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11/23/2025 6:58pm
metadave wrote:

Yes, according to the Gnomes I believe that was supposed to be the profit phase, which was skipped in this situation.

Step 1: collect underwear 

Step 3: profit

ballz wrote:

I love a good tautology.

Thank you for the new word

1
boozed
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AU
11/23/2025 9:19pm
I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present.   

I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present. 

unnamed %284%29

 

lloyd506 wrote:

AI needs to learn to count. Where is phase 3?

Whoops! First time playing with the new Google image model. I tweaked the output after generating the first variant and accidentally introduced that bug (missing phase...

Whoops! First time playing with the new Google image model. I tweaked the output after generating the first variant and accidentally introduced that bug (missing phase 3). FWIW, I spot-checked a few numbers and it’s accurate. You all might not be as impressed as I am, but being able to visualize data this quickly and correctly is a huge unlock for anyone working with otherwise eye glazingly boring financial data. 

The problem I have with this is – and this is a very niche and personal problem – ...meme stock apes fascinate (and amuse) me, so I spend an inordinate time reading about their nonsense, and they also now use LLMs to make flowcharts and infographics to "explain" their financial conspiracy theory fever dreams.  And unfortunately, because the typeface and art styles are identical, that's all I could think of, despite the fact you're very obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum to a meme stock ape!

It's impressive how quickly it's become good at rendering text.  Now they need to make it not burn an entire tree every time you ask it something...

sethimus
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CH
11/23/2025 10:27pm
boozed wrote:
The problem I have with this is – and this is a very niche and personal problem – ...meme stock apes fascinate (and amuse) me, so...

The problem I have with this is – and this is a very niche and personal problem – ...meme stock apes fascinate (and amuse) me, so I spend an inordinate time reading about their nonsense, and they also now use LLMs to make flowcharts and infographics to "explain" their financial conspiracy theory fever dreams.  And unfortunately, because the typeface and art styles are identical, that's all I could think of, despite the fact you're very obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum to a meme stock ape!

It's impressive how quickly it's become good at rendering text.  Now they need to make it not burn an entire tree every time you ask it something...

it burns a tree every time you just look at something 

10
11/23/2025 11:21pm Edited Date/Time 11/23/2025 11:23pm
boozed wrote:
The problem I have with this is – and this is a very niche and personal problem – ...meme stock apes fascinate (and amuse) me, so...

The problem I have with this is – and this is a very niche and personal problem – ...meme stock apes fascinate (and amuse) me, so I spend an inordinate time reading about their nonsense, and they also now use LLMs to make flowcharts and infographics to "explain" their financial conspiracy theory fever dreams.  And unfortunately, because the typeface and art styles are identical, that's all I could think of, despite the fact you're very obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum to a meme stock ape!

It's impressive how quickly it's become good at rendering text.  Now they need to make it not burn an entire tree every time you ask it something...

sethimus wrote:

it burns a tree every time you just look at something 

He's Australian, trees burning is "just another day" normality for Aussie's.

3
veefour
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Cinderford GB
11/24/2025 1:15am
I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present.   

I felt this was worth posting here. Yes, AI made it and yes its pretty spot on. It was built primarily off all financials from 2016-present. 

unnamed %284%29

 

lloyd506 wrote:

AI needs to learn to count. Where is phase 3?

It used the South Park underwear gnomes episode as inspiration..

Personally I'm just disappointed there wasn't a phase 6-7.

5
sethimus
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CH
11/24/2025 3:45am
Dave Waugh wrote:

He's Australian, trees burning is "just another day" normality for Aussie's.

i was talking about google gemini

3
jeff.brines
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Grand Junction, CO US
11/24/2025 5:58am
lloyd506 wrote:

AI needs to learn to count. Where is phase 3?

Whoops! First time playing with the new Google image model. I tweaked the output after generating the first variant and accidentally introduced that bug (missing phase...

Whoops! First time playing with the new Google image model. I tweaked the output after generating the first variant and accidentally introduced that bug (missing phase 3). FWIW, I spot-checked a few numbers and it’s accurate. You all might not be as impressed as I am, but being able to visualize data this quickly and correctly is a huge unlock for anyone working with otherwise eye glazingly boring financial data. 

boozed wrote:
The problem I have with this is – and this is a very niche and personal problem – ...meme stock apes fascinate (and amuse) me, so...

The problem I have with this is – and this is a very niche and personal problem – ...meme stock apes fascinate (and amuse) me, so I spend an inordinate time reading about their nonsense, and they also now use LLMs to make flowcharts and infographics to "explain" their financial conspiracy theory fever dreams.  And unfortunately, because the typeface and art styles are identical, that's all I could think of, despite the fact you're very obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum to a meme stock ape!

It's impressive how quickly it's become good at rendering text.  Now they need to make it not burn an entire tree every time you ask it something...

You bring up a good point. One of my favorite business writers, Paul Kedrosky, recently wrote about this. His argument is that society has always rewarded variance in performance.. In a way we are trained to "spot" these Asa Vermette style outliers. But in many domains, LLMs are muting that variance by pulling the average up and compressing the distribution, making real outliers harder to spot. He expects that trend to continue.

https://paulkedrosky.com/llms-shifting-baselines-and-400-hitters/ - if anyone wants the full piece ask - he's a buddy and I'm sure wouldn't mind me sharing. 

1
krabo83
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AT
11/24/2025 7:23am Edited Date/Time 11/24/2025 7:24am

is their next insolvency pending… 🤣

IMG 3789.jpeg?VersionId=V
9
11/24/2025 7:32am
Regarding 30-60-90 day credit terms on components, the bike brands that we know often don't buy directly from component suppliers, instead the assembly factory purchases parts...

Regarding 30-60-90 day credit terms on components, the bike brands that we know often don't buy directly from component suppliers, instead the assembly factory purchases parts using their creditworthyness with the component manufacturers. An assembly factory may then extend credit to the brand. Less frequently (though not infrequently) bike brands import frames and assemble locally (you mentioned YT did this), this can save them from holding a depreciating inventory of components by acquiring them just in time, and it can allow them to offer multiple build levels or model years based on whatever frames they have available.

There have been a few occasions where assembly factories have bailed out (or bought out?) struggling bike brands to keep the wheels of commerce turning, probably calling it vertical integration. For a time Specialized was about 50% owned by assembly factory Merida; Kenstone who you mentioned in the pod is blood-related to Kenda Tires and owns Haro and Masi (I have no idea how that came about); and IIRC the customer facing brand side of Giant bikes kinda sorta came about as fallout from the collapse of Schwinn. My guess would be that extending credit within co-owned, vertically integrated, organizations could be relatively frictionless.

To be clear, I have no knowledge of YT, or whether anything like that is happening here; I'm just offering that there are many ways this sort of thing has played out in the past.

Side thought: how does YT's scale compare to Felt's of 10 years ago? @jeff.brines and @TEAMROBOT 's ship of Theseus analogy seems almost inadequate there, but I'm happier if some part of any bike company survives than none.

@Digit Bikes great post, really appreciate you sharing this! As to the Felt question, I honestly can't tell you. Robot might have a better feel, but...

@Digit Bikes great post, really appreciate you sharing this! As to the Felt question, I honestly can't tell you. Robot might have a better feel, but outside the Felt acquisition by Pierer Mobility during COVID, I don't have a ton of insight into how big they were. 

@ebikepartyshirt, CAST Touring and SNDR Products (different brands, same company, technically). We're in the process of building a new manufacturing facility here in the Tetons, which has me banging nails (or rather, driving metal screws) a lot of my day until this thing is dried in (see, I do "real work" too sometimes...). If things go well, a very small portion of the "plant" will hopefully also be my office and "podcast studio" (lol) come mid winter! Psyched! Anyway, I only mention it because its really fun to be around a business that is doing everything they can to manufacture as much of their product as possible locally.  

https://casttouring.com/
https://sndrproducts.com/

awesome! I've got a set of OG Cast on my rock pow skis, they're bomber!

1
mfoga
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Moreno Valley, CA US
Fantasy
11/24/2025 8:31am
hogfly wrote:
You could go rent/demo bikes for free from the Mills. Then you could order a bike from YT if you decided to buy. They also carried...

You could go rent/demo bikes for free from the Mills. Then you could order a bike from YT if you decided to buy. They also carried all the YT apparel and such for purchase at the store.  They also served as a social hub for parties with a bar, espresso machine, etc…

MJT420 wrote:
Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be...

Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be an outrageous cost, pick a lane buds budget friendly direct to consumer or swanky experience people, they're not the same.

hogfly wrote:
Sorry. No spirits. Just beer/wine. And it was free. So licensing issues were probably minimal. Want to guess the wine? Decoy (which while not crazy expensive...

Sorry. No spirits. Just beer/wine. And it was free. So licensing issues were probably minimal. Want to guess the wine? Decoy (which while not crazy expensive also isn’t crazy cheap). 

Probably just pay a outside bartending company that would serve at events that way handle having a license to serve not the location where its being served. 

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11/24/2025 9:39am Edited Date/Time 11/24/2025 10:30am
MJT420 wrote:
Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be...

Not trying to derail too much but did the YT mills have bars that served alcohol? Liquor licenses are stupid expensive, seems like that would be an outrageous cost, pick a lane buds budget friendly direct to consumer or swanky experience people, they're not the same.

hogfly wrote:
Sorry. No spirits. Just beer/wine. And it was free. So licensing issues were probably minimal. Want to guess the wine? Decoy (which while not crazy expensive...

Sorry. No spirits. Just beer/wine. And it was free. So licensing issues were probably minimal. Want to guess the wine? Decoy (which while not crazy expensive also isn’t crazy cheap). 

mfoga wrote:
Probably just pay a outside bartending company that would serve at events that way handle having a license to serve not the location where its being...

Probably just pay a outside bartending company that would serve at events that way handle having a license to serve not the location where its being served. 

1. This guy is probably right

2. This varies too much jurisdiction to jurisdiction for us to really comment on here unless someone's familiar with the alcohol regulatory scheme of Arkansas and wants to chime in

3. most (all?) jurisdictions do one-off limited licenses for events (notably though, some jurisdictions require money to change hands for their one-off events. No free beer at all! Although to get around this, YT would hire a catering company,  pay the catering company for the drinks, and then give them out). A full license is most likely not required.

On another note, I'm interested to see what happens with this FELT thing. Kinda a dead brand on the MTB side for a while.

I bet Jensen regrets buying those YT bikes now. What a ballache for a company that from what I can tell really tries to offer good support and customer interaction. I can't imagine they got enough for it to be worth it. 

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