Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
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Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
When I've requested that information from another DW bike brand, I was told that their contract with Weagle forbid them from sharing the information publicly.
Lmao. Dave’s greatest talent is probably those contracts
S - 7.79lb / M - 7.87lb / L - 8.04lb / X - 8.18lb. That is with SuperDeluxe shock, headset cups, and all frame hardware. Worth noting that weight will vary from one frame to the next, although these are actual weights that were just taken in the warehouse.
Thanks! Love to hear you've owned a few of our rides - hope they've been good to you.
New Insurgent - couldn't say. We all take a blood oath to secrecy the day we sign on. Punishable by death (just kidding). We're always working on some exciting stuff, but what & when - only time will tell.
Colors - we like to mix it up so you can always expect something fresh. Black will of course always be somewhere in the lineup.
Calling - man, that bike kicked ass. Despite amassing somewhat of a cult following, the sales numbers just didn't justify an update. Perhaps someday, I suppose.
I suppose that's all up to interpretation & reviews, like judged sports, are inherently subjective. We've spent quite a bit of time ride-testing this thing and I can confidently tell you it is our most stable bike yet - while somehow maintaining the playful character you know in Evil. I suppose a coil shock would buy you just a wee bit of sensitivity, although modern air shocks have gotten so good it's hard to knock em. Suspension choice is always somewhat of a pick your poison, user preference kind of conversation.
Large frameset is 8.04lbs with Superdeluxe, headset cups, and frame hardware. There will of course be some variance from one carbon frame to the next, although that is a real measurement.
S - 7.79lb / M - 7.87lb / L - 8.04lb / X - 8.18lb. That is with SuperDeluxe shock, headset cups, and all frame hardware. Worth noting that weight will vary from one frame to the next, although these are actual weights that were just taken in the warehouse.
When will Dak first be shown riding the new Undead?
If anyone wants to invest a few hundred grand with no guaranteed return, anything is possible.
As a tall rider that answer sucks.
Make the insurgent dual crown compatible
. Great bike, can’t wait to see your next release. Maybe a DJI SL ebike…
Forgive me I don’t know a lot, and am not sure how to phrase this great but from my understanding wouldn’t longer and slacker be more stable? Unless I’ve got my numbers mixed up flipping through pages the wreckoning and insurgent both are longer and slacker? Or did the kinematics change to make the offering v4 more capable then them? I also recognize I might be comparing apples to oranges too
Bike looks good... However, calling the in frame storage the lunchbox has got to be one of the least Evil sounding name possible...
Copy and paste from the other thread:
The New offering looks pretty dialed, and I did say in a previous post that I would probably get one if they went back to Boost. The increase in travel, both front and rear, isn’t a huge selling point for me. My local trails are fairly mellow and my daily driver for the last couple seasons has been a 150/135 mullet trail bike. Just small enough to enjoy my local trails and just big enough to handle rougher trails when I travel to real mountains.
So that got me thinking about the new offering run as a mullet with a 150mm fork, run in the high setting. Is there anyway to figure out what that would put the BB at?
Will you consider a trade-in program for folks with nice 157 wheels? lol
Seriously, bike looks good. My only question is if and when you'll have some available to demo in Bellingham or elsewhere?
Great looking bike.
Very short chainstays equating to a 1.9 f/r ratio in size large. That's moving in the opposite direction to where most bikes are headed lately. Medium looks good at 1.83 f/r though. The large and XL are going to be relegated to "arizona" bikes, where corners are slow, and the steps are large. Short chainstays are good there.
Hopefully the updated insurgent/wreckoning have a better balance in the larger sizes.
I like to live in a world where “short stay guy” can have his jibby bike and “long stay guy” can find another brand that makes super stable bikes that work for him (me) and “doing pretty well in this economy guy” can have both, but none of them get to have the same brand. Or colors.
Personally I like this “slappy bike” and hope to be “doing ok in this economy” guy , as I ride different stuff on different bikes - but they all have 450+ stays. For now …..
Also: I echo the bring back revolt//undead voices . That bike was so damned good at feeling stable AND jibby based on how you were standing on the pedals and shifting your weight
I woulda called it the Crypt Keeper.
Plenty of folks out there running the Insurgent with a dual crown, actually! Works perfectly well. If running a dual crown fork, 180-190mm travel is best w/ 29" front wheel. 190-200 is best w/ 27.5" front wheel.
DJI SL ebike - maybe someday.
Agreed - we whiteboarded a bunch of ideas for this one. Everything we came up with was either too corny, already used by another bike brand, or fell outside respectable social norms. Thus, we went with the simple answer.
All good & we're happy to help as best we can. Poppy, playful, stable, and confident are all subjective in their own right. Agility & stability are somewhat at odds with one another - bit of a tradeoff, you might say. With this bike, we've tried to strike what we feel is the "perfect balance", or somewhere in the middle. Compared to it's predecessor, the Offering has gotten longer, with a slacker HA and longer CS. Thus, leaning more towards stability. We didn't go crazy with these numbers, because we wanted to carefully preserve the agile character Evil is known for. It's a nuanced subject & every bike is going to be a bit different than the next. We like to think there is no such thing as the "perfect" bike - there is only such thing as the perfect bike for you, which could very well be any. Hope this provides some reasonable insight.
I think in the past we had short travel and long travel versions of bikes (i.e. LTs, evos, lunch rides) and now it's moving into long chainstay vs short chainstay bikes. Distinct handling characteristics that riders are choosing a side and sticking to it.
Funny you mention arizona - arguably the most arizona bike of all has a 1.88 to 1.92 f/r ratio depending on setup (size large, redacted bike name). Needless to say, I think the Evil bike looks good and I think it would be a lot of fun to ride.
Evil,
Thanks for taking questions and to Vital MTB for this forum! I have questions/ comments on three different aspects of the decision to follow the mainstream to 148x12. I will note that Trek released the 148x12 hub standard in 2015. Ten years later- Trek has released no testing data either in house or 3rd party. Trek told the industry that 148x12 is the hub standard now and nobody asked any follow up questions, we all just went along with it.
STRENGTH
157x12 wheels are 20% stronger than 148x12 for two primary reasons: 1. wider spoke bracing angle 2. more balanced DS vs. NDS spoke tension. Was wheel strength considered by Evil when making the decision to spec a 20% weaker wheel?
Spoke tension difference between drive side DS and non drive side NDS:
142x12: 40%
148x12: 37%
150x12 (157DH): 22%
157x12 (SB variant): 30%
(lower tension % difference is better) source link
Strength calculations: https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/27962336/
CHAINLINE
Lal Katana and the WAO Arrival both run the stronger 157x12 hub using a 52mm chainline. While Shimano and Sram officially list "superboost" as 56 and 56.5mm (respectively), in practice, this is not a requirement.
In other words, "new generation drivetrain designs are based off the 55mm chain line" I agree with this statement. However, this does not necessitate 148x12 hub spacing. WAO was bold enough to optimize their chainline without regard for "what everyone else was doing."
COMPATIBILITY:
This is the real elephant in the room, in my opinion. Banshee solved this problem long ago by allowing riders to swap modular dropouts and allow riders to choose between 142 or 148. Banshee Modular Dropout link Future Enduro, trail and e-Bikes from ANY manufacture could (Should in my opinion) be designed with modular dropouts to allow riders to customize:
1. hub standard (148 or 157)
2. chainstay length (Crestline allows riders 6 chainstay length options with one frame!)
3. 27.5 or 29 (a flip chip could accomplish this as well)
Thanks again!
"or fell outside respectable social norms..."
Would love to see that whiteboard.
Hey Matt - thanks for the kind words! Glad you're interested in the new Offering.
I don't have these numbers in front of me. It's going to take some math, which can be calculated using our existing geometry sheets and a bit of trig. I'm happy to dive further into this if you would like - send us an email at info@evil-bikes.com
Thanks,
I happen to ride an XL. We thoroughly acknowledge the logic behind size specific chainstays, although we are a business, and like any, we need to make cost/benefit decisions. For a bike to "feel" exactly the same throughout an entire size range, every dimension needs to be scaled accordingly. That includes it's components - most notably, wheel size (axle height). We hear the argument for size specific chainstays, although from business & physics perspectives, it is a much more complicated subject than most care to acknowledge. At the end of the day, this bike in an XL kicks ass. Come give one a try.
Classified information 😂
Haha - unfortunately no, although we hear where you're coming from. We're sorry we rubber-banded on hub spacing. We still believe in the benefits of Superboost, although the market has spoken and Boost is the clear victor (raises white flag in surrender)
Demos - any day now! Shoot us an email and I'll put you in touch with Joe who manages the demo fleet. info@evil-bikes.com
Thanks for the kind words!
Insurgent/Wreckoning - perhaps. I think it's important to acknowledge here that every bike, and every brand are going to have their own unique DNA or ride feel. Just the same as every rider has a different style, rides different terrain, or prefers a different personality out of their bike. This is a huge component of what makes mountain biking fun to so many. Adhering to any strict rule book of geometry would inevitably end up with every bike feeling and looking like a mid-90's champagne Honda Accord. Nothing wrong with the Accord, but it's bland and lacks any distinct personality. No two things are the same & that's what makes each great.
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