Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
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Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
Even though I'm team E now (and still ride my others some, esp DH bike) and having gone to 3 / 4 (alternating) workouts per week, I can def tell you that you don't have to rely on your bike to "still get a workout"... you can just workout. I'm also not waxxed at the end of rides or even close, an am doing workouts the AM... and I wasn't even following any of the Zone based stuff at all (though now I'll think of that).
Getting into 50's now means having to weight train to maintain strength & bone density so to "have to" work out on the bike? I could but with the weekly workout routine, there's no need to when I can just have more fun, go farther, get in way more runs, and actually enjoy the deep DH bike like sensation and weight of the E vs. my regular bikes... and still going up notably in strength.
I'm on my 36th year riding now - I've done my time in every imaginable avenue from bikes to races to nutrition, marathons, etc - but I'm only my 2nd year of really (really) working out hard weekly now. That massively increased strength makes biking more fun now, less of the chore, far less of a "have to" for leg day, and way more fun - easily - losing strength over it is a choice, not a given
lol. Can you point me in the direction of the science in this thread?
I'm not knocking what works for other people. If you are enjoying what you're doing, cool.
The initial premise of this thread felt like another justification post for owning an ebike (others have pointed it out as well, so its not just me). It just feels weird when I hear people going on and on about the virtues of ebikes - you don't have to justify your choice, just ride!
Are you training (focused training time not just ride time) 8-11 hrs per week (5-6 sessions) with specific goals? If yes then do an 80/20 plan of polarization with that 80% being Z2 and the 20% being a combo of threshold and high intensity.
Due to the total volume of training the body can't recover from higher amounts of high intensity, so it's Z2 working at a level that has adaptations but doesn't prevent recovery from those very key high intensity sessions. These athletes will also shift that 80/20 (70/30 or 60/40) to lower Z2 and more focused intensity in season to peak for specific events.
Are you an average Joe/Jane that gets 3 days a week to sorta train? You have much greater recovery time and would be well served with just a single longer distance steady state Z3 ride a week, one threshold ride, and one high intensity interval workout. Without the high intensity work you won't maintain the snap, the sprint, the power.
Heard - and word. I am the king of going off w/ explanations when its not necessary but... it kinda is given the level of shit talking from some people (and again, I was filled to the brim w/ ebike hate until 2023). But there's not really much discussion usually, just volleys and I was prob volleying so yeah, whatever. I have a massive list of why E's have been the shit (not to mention having entirely changed my work, which is forestry / wildlife and the time I've saved using an E... or trail maintenance) but anyway - yeah. Done. Yr right. Go ride...
https://youtu.be/VD94rOJMwiM?si=6RiS2FRKjRXKrFs8
That was my pseudo-scientific effort into the subject... I'll summarise it for those who don't want to click... It's basically me mouth breathing for 5 minutes, trying to see if I could use an eeb for training zone blocks.
Tldr: you can and it's surprisingly easy. But ... Since making that video, I tried quite a few times off camera and ultimately gave up on it.
So a little context, I don't have time to ride AND train separately. I quite like my rides to be taxing even if they don't confirm to a plan or training block based workout...
To achieve that on an E-bike my rides actually became the opposite of enjoyable, to keep hr at anything above z2 requires riding at a high intensity with a focussed mindset (that's easy to achieve whilst being filmed or under test conditions) and it just sucked the fun out of riding, and that's like the exact opposite of an e-bikes primary function.
Whereas a normal bike ride with friends (or if you want a challenge on a normal bike whilst friends are on e-bikes) ticks all the boxes, of which the most important one is remaining fun.
Don't get me wrong I'm not hating on e-bikes. Big days, loads of climbing and descents and therefore become a better rider? Do it... Making recovery rides a blast? Yes... Or just simply doing it for fun and taking the effort out of your normal ride? 100%
But any sort of intensity? It's the wrong tool. Use a normal bike, it's way more fun and rewarding.
...for me at least. Different strokes for different folks and all that
Dorks!
😂 I think that would be a fitting response to all posts (including yours) on all threads on this and any other mountain biking forum.
"A "dork" is a person perceived as socially awkward, unfashionable, or overly enthusiastic about niche interests"
I, for one, am happy to own that label...
😡
So much comedy here. I got rid on my analog enduro and only ride my DH bike or my transition relay. I can’t really imagine the relay is “better” for fitness, but it’s sure made me faster. I do way more riding these days, I love my E bike more than my girlfriend. All those extra laps do pay off in DH speed and general skills down rowdy stuff.
Full dork mode
My bad - I missed this. Yes - its the part (aka - the entire article) where there's an intro, methodology, results and discussion. Also includes graphs and some self-checks. Did you ever actually study science because you you're sounding like the kid in overalls with his hands in his pockets at the Slayer show.
IE - look up dude
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
username checks out
Alot of feelings in this thread. Was a good post and there were a few good counter points. Nothing else of value is likely to be added- would recommend locking.
Gotcha - as a science editor for 25 years now - I appreciate your enlightening news, and while I don't know you - I'l easily agree you likely suffer from the D-Kruger effect. Thanks for sharing more with us about you...
I get that everyone has their own internet persona, some stronger than others. I like to pretend that I’m a pro mountain biker from time to time on the internet. I didn’t realize so many like to cosplay as scientists. Thanks for enlightening me
Yr welcome Mr Kreuger! Funny that Freddy would mention cosplay (sick burn too) but hey - it is Halloween. I also fully understand your need to project onto others, its a common issue
My experience -
- I'm 49 and have been mountain biking for 28 years
- I ride for fun, mental health and fitness. Descent/gravity oriented
- I'm typically injured from mountain biking 3+ months a year
- Pre e-bike I was riding ~3 days a week, taking days off in between for leg recovery. Winch and plummet style riding. Sometimes if I was really trying to get fitness back after an injury I'd add road days in between. I've tried the trainer (hamster wheel) multiple times and hate it
- Post e-bike I ride 5+ days a week, alternating between the e-bike and analog bike
- Endurance and top end effort output have increased. Recovery of fitness after time off the bike from injury is faster. In practice this means I can keep up on the climbs better when I'm riding with people 10-20 years younger than me, and with more energy for the descent afterwards.
- I still prefer riding the analog bike most of the time, in large part due to the lighter weight
Put a heart rate monitor on them
This a great post (for us/PerformX) to better understand our MTB community...so hopefully some of you can assist/comment:
- What's your definition of "being fit"? Aesthetics, body weight, performance, wellness, all of this???
- Why do many of you focus on Zone 2? I mean beyond a copy/paste answer from a Google search, I'd love to hear if any of you have experienced (personally) other/higher levels of efforts (zones), specifically in the "off-season".
- How much time per day or week do most of you have available to: 1) ride eMTB/MTB? and 2) train (off-bike, if any)?
- What % of your riding eMTB/MTB is for FUN and what % if for FITNESS (physically and/or mentally)?
Thanks in advance! Not trying to hijack this post....just love to see if I can understand and assist more eMTB/MTB folks out there in the furture.
-Todd Schumlick/PerformX
- It's functional for me really, ie I'm capable of doing a big hike type walk, or a full day riding up and down a hill, and I can enjoy it.
- Its a suprise to me that people riding MTB casually are thinking about training zones, but I suppose there are likely to be alot of racers here! With how much I can ride, I don't think about it at all.
- 3-4 times a week riding and then 1-2 times a week strength training, on a good week. Often motivation slips for the strength training and it doesn't happen sadly!
- All fun but I guess I'm making sure they're all good efforts too? It's my only proper cardio workout and I'm an office worker so I need all the exercise I can get. I don't own an ebike for this reason- all my rides need to be good efforts for my health- mental, cardio fitness, calorie deficit. If I could ride every day or I had time to train more I could see the utility of an ebike. At the same time I'm a bit romantic about the idea of the bike as a human powered vehicle and ebikes don't appeal to me for that reason as well.
Hope that's what you're after!
Muscling the e-bike around on real trails made my upper body look like the Dwayne Johnson The Rock Black Adam.
💪
just think how fit you can get with these and an ebike.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6KmXjdwVIg
Apparently ebike ownership helps train one's oratory skills. #ebikesplaining
1 - all of the above. fighting the good fight against getting older
2 - I don't even know what Zone 2 is. I focus on improvement by what seems to make a difference. Usually it's not related to "training," it's eating better and sleeping well.
3- Only non-bike "training" I do is sporadic trail work. Mid-week, I can sneak 1-3 1hour rides in between work and dinner, depending on the kid's schedule. Weekends I can do 2-3 hour rides each day, provided it's not ski season.
4- Hard to say. I always go out for a ride because I think I'll have fun. If I don't feel it'll be fun, I'll do something else. That's good for mental health I think, and the physical effort is also fun.
As an older “athlete” my goals and vision of fitness are ever evolving but the trend is to think about it as a long term project with less focus on specific events or outcomes. Racing is becoming more intermittent while the desire to adventure increases.
To answer your questions
- Fitness to me is a never ending alchemy of a. performance as a blend of watts per kg, robustness and repeatability b. mid to long term health (body weight/wellness etc.) and c. being a capable human beyond the bike in other outdoor activities (running, ski touring, building things, landscaping etc.)
- I use a periodized on the bike training plan that includes a variety of training zones and is not wholly focused on zone 2. I will generally have 2 endurance focused days and 2 higher intensity days that vary through the progression from sweet spot to threshold to VO2 max depending on the schedule. My body seems to respond well to the high intensity work and being older I loose the snap quickly if I’m not training it. Some of my unstructured rides, specifically on the gravel bike will also fall into the endurance zones. Unstructured MTB rides are hard to classify but can fall into that zone. I will occasionally use an emtb as a training tool to increase my descending reps but don’t usually track power output.
- depends on the time of year but when I’m on it in the offseason I am on the trainer 5.5hrs a week, in the gym 2-3 days a week, some kind of mobility work wherever possible and supplement with outdoor rides when the weather permits. In season I try to keep the gym work to at least 2 days a week, ride outside anywhere from 4-10 hrs (2-3 are emtb) and add in periodic trainer sessions when I can’t get outside ride. Intermittently I have been adding a HYROX style workout to my gym routine to break things up. I don’t know if it’s the years of endurance sport but these workouts make me feel good for the rest of the day and don’t impact the next days workout.
- 99% of my time on the MTB/EMTB is “fun” (type 2 fun count?) focused but in order to a skilled, robust and durable mountain biker you have to mountain bike so that fun has some training effect even if it doesn’t increase FTP. If I want to train outside it will usually be on a drop bar bike.
Super curious about where you may be going with this.
Thanks for response! As mentioned, I'm just curious to better understand what matters to riders in making their decisions, 'eMTB vs MTB', 'fitter vs funner', 'what they consider fitter', etc.
Again, thanks for input! I'm just curious to better understand what matters to riders in making their decisions, 'eMTB vs MTB', 'fitter vs funner', 'what they consider fitter', etc. Where am I going with this....no where at the moment. Just trying to understand you enthusiasts better. Probably have some additional input and thoughts after hearing from more. Cheers.
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