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Thanks for the insight. I judged FWQ and Jr comps for ten years. Starting around the time you came off the tour. There was a big shift, starting with Jrs, about rewarding control and technique over sends. The kids got really dialled. They still eventually would send stuff to the moon, but were usually so on point and calculated. We would even close certain take offs if they were sketch, or if conditions didn’t make it sensible. It was a good balance.
The FWQ and FWT moved that direction as well. Doing big things poorly isn’t rewarded any more.
Not that hucking is rewarded at rampage, but judging criteria can affect riding.
My thoughts on why it is getting sketchy:
Only having one stop means people have to prove themselves in one run. There is no pacing or longevity.
Repeat venues means people learn the venue and will evolve it. There is also pressure to improve from previous years. Also, the course is actually getting quite polished meaning bigger and faster and more likely to do big tricks since the landings are getting dialed.
Coaching. Is there coaching? Skiers all have coaches now and they are dialed. The new gen is so far ahead because of this.
But yes, it will still go on as long as someone will insure it. Hopefully it can evolve to be safer but still rad.
I also want to say big respect to Reed Boggs for dealing with a frustrating situation yesterday with wisdom and class. It's got to be tough standing at the top, knowing that you have a good chance of dropping in and potentially winning the whole thing (or at least placing top 3), choosing discretion over valor, and then congratulating the winner as you choose to step away from the start gate.
Ultimately whether rampage is the event or these guys are just out making video parts they will be pursuing their goals. I think as an event it gives a good platform for them to pursue those goals.
They choose what they want to do. I have no issue with the crashes being shown and viewed by choice. Like others in the thread I can just not watch the event live. But if the event is going to survive (which the participants want) they need to be prepared for the fallout of how they choose to broadcast it.
Jeff is a much better writer than myself and articulates stuff so well. Thanks!
I do want to come back to the snow sports analogy to try to understand my feelings (and many others based on comments) around current versions of Rampage.
In snow, Kevin Pearce (snowboarder 2009) suffered a life altering TBI and Sarah Burke (skier 2012) ultimately died from injuries both sustained from training in the half-pipe for X-games and the Olympics. To my recollection there was never a chorus to stop half-pipe competitions at any level. Again, people mourned these tragedies and Sarah is still a beacon within the greater freeskiing community but it felt like the consensus was that people should continue to push the sport in honor of those who were hurt or died.
I am genuinely asking for anyone’s insight because I cannot discern why. Rampage feels fundamentally different than the above examples and this seems to be echoed a lot of places.
Hot take
Do you think the industry is in such a bad way, these guys are going more crazy than usual to get that win just to have a job next year?
Man that was so hard to watch, when I was about 10 I saw a kid get hit by a car at 60kph and it shook me hard, watching Adolf rag doll live was very similar feeling. Very heavy
Maybe it's because it hasn't happened yet but everyone knows it's basically inevitable at this rate that someone will likely die at rampage if it keeps going.
There's a lot of dangerous competition going on like the Isle of Man TT or mountaineering etc. but people have been dying doing that for a hundred years. People die running marathons but I don't think anybody remembers when that first happened, just that occasionally it does happen.
I hope 2025 is a wake up. Nobody wants to see serious injury. Somehow Rampage needs to dial the danger back. I’d rather see amazing steeze over flips/spins with a shitty risk/reward ratio. I suck at MTB so I don’t have an answer about how to do this, but I hate seeing the people that bring the stoke injured.
As someone who has followed and watched this since it's inception, watching live this year was too much. I turned it off after Adolf and hit the live button a while later to watch Emil almost plummet to the bottom. It hasn't sat well with me. I'm in my late 40s and have always been into action sports, including ski, snowboard, skating, etc. X Game in general.
This one felt different.
I think at this point, if there was another run of this type of thing next week, I'd wait for the replay or highlights. Add me into the too old to care to watch live anymore.
The top 4 runs were all bonkers to me and could have won. Lemoine was my favorite though, which may be because I had listened to his podcast with Rob and Eliot the night before they ran.
What if the riders had to tick off everything in practice before throwing down a final run in competition? Anyone trying something for the first time in finals gets an instant point or ranking penalty.
The riders would need to be certain they could reliably land their features and tricks and might be less inclined to take these huge do-or-die risks in their final run. There would still be progression with the athletes striving to make history, but it might lead to fewer roll of the dice moments.
It improves the viewing product though
I think it’s worth noting that one third of the invited male riders this year crashed out, with close to 20% of the invitees this year sustaining potentially life-altering injuries (Parish, Silva, Johansson).
didnt Gee and Brage grenade themselves before the final day the other year?
i guess the bigger question if we want to touch on stats is... what was the safest year of Rampage so far? was there something about that event / venue location that was optimal? (as well as, of course, are the numbers fairly consistent year to year on how many riders make it through the entire event without missing a run / visiting hospital)
I think at the end of the day we just have to remember those guys are there voluntarily choosing how they get down the mountain themselves. For a lot of the riders, rampage is by far the biggest reason they are sponsored and the most exposure they get for the year, I think if you asked them whether they would want the event to end, they would all say no.
Perhaps a fresh venue would go a long way in dialling back the danger somewhat. The lines and landings are largely so well polished now people are more and more willing to do terrifying shit in extremely exposed places. A fresh venue might somewhat reset the progression as a lot of the riders seem to have gotten so comfortable with their lines and are therefore trying to push more, getting as much out of them as they can.
Despite the two horror crashes I still find rampage to be an exceptional event that is truly pushing the boundaries of what is possible on a bike and naturally that comes with a lot of danger. But, as Sam Reynolds did a few years ago, if the athletes are not comfortable with that they can drop out. I feel like alot of the discussion surrounding the danger of the event largely ignores what the riders themselves actually think.
The problem I have with this argument is that it also justifies e.g. the live streaming of suicides as a media event. Something can be entirely voluntary with the boundaries and rules agreed to by all parties and still be bad. “People want to do it and people want to see them do it” is necessary but not sufficient, at least in most mainstream moral philosophies.
More practically, having someone die gruesomely on stream would be absolutely terrible for both Rampage and freeride in general. It’s in the event organizers’ best interests to figure out how to rein in the athlete’s ambitions to ensure that doesn’t happen.
Cam just put up a post with Adolf! So relieved to see him smiling
On Pinkbike one of the Rampage articles began "Injury Report:...", listed each of the riders who were scratched due to injury and was updated as reports came in.
When I saw that I thought What kind of event needs a live article listing all of the riders who have hurt themselves in practice?!
The article remains up and the title was changed, but the URL preserves the original title.
Again I understand the sentiment but ultimately it's not unusually worded or reasoned. World cup races have similar news (especially in terms of fantasy picks right), MX/SX races have similar news, ice hockey has similar news.
Ultimately the approach should be what kind of event has THE LEVEL of injuries these riders have. Of course X Games was always bad. I mean hell Stephen Murray's paralyzing crash (also a double backie btw) was just at a Dew Tour stop, not even X Games.
But yeah I do think if you factor in... Severity... Rampage may have some of the most alarming injuries for a single event in the span of under a week. If the only thing that comes to mind that could be worse is Isle of fcukin Man TT? Uhhh... I dunno lol it's kinda a bad look
(Although I'd love to hear if people think it has more parity with other events.)
Absolutely, obviously no one wants to see anyone die but an unfortunate reality of a good amount of both normal and action sport, is there is always a chance someone dies. Football players have died on broadcast, boxers, motorsport etc. I struggle to see how this can be completely eradicated from rampage.
As I said I think a fresh venue thats maybe abit less naturally gnarly would somewhat reduce the risk but outside of either cancelling the event, removing the competitive nature of it, which would make it far less watchable and marketable (a negative for both redbull and the riders) or adding safety nets (both impractical/ impossible and also feels like it somewhat looses the essence of what rampage is), I don't see that many actual solutions for making the event safer, whilst maintaining its core appeal to the athletes and fans.
Stoked to see Silva looking somewhat ok in Zink's instagram but was it Cam McCaul who said a few years ago there was an intervention to stop him trying something similar?. At a certain point theres little that can be done to stop an athlete like him pushing himself to do what he wants to do.
There’s a big gap between “no one can get hurt doing it” and “20% of the people who did it will need months of rehab”. If 20% of the fighters on a boxing card ended up in the hospital requiring surgeries, I don’t think you’d see a lot of them, even if fighters were up for it.
If Silva wants to commit suicide via double backflip, that doesn’t mean Red Bull should televise it.
In this case the riders created the lines, not red bull, this is a huge difference from most other events. Don't take away the freedom of the riders doing what they want to do.
Oof. I wouldn't use boxing lol
The sport where they glove up to make sure LESS injuries occur (check out the people who voluntarily do bare knuckle fighting if you wanna see the difference). So that the fighters kinda 'last in the game longer'.
But it increases brain damage. And is basically the number one case study for CTE, even ahead of american football.
Again, understand the sentiment... But looking for better comparisons (although one can argue there is little comparison to such a unique event) to understand this event better.
One of the things I dislike most about Rampage is the do or die nature of it being a live event on a schedule, which is kinda the exact reason why Fest Series was created. (And again, Silva threw a failed double backie on the Darkfest 90 so you're NEVER gonna get this guy to not ride like that.)
I'd much prefer a FREE(ride) type event where you don't have these scored runs and only 1 or 2 chances. And don't have to link things together. But... There's no shot they change that. And it's also a reason why they have a best trick award and such. And some riders have objectively ridden with that in mind. Having a fairly 'empty' run where they only focused on one do or die move.
Maybe the winning run this year will alter how dudes approach this event. A great run, but I think most people will admit hardly the best or gnarliest Rampage run in the event's history.
I mean for me the highlight of the event was Lemoine's manual... And his entire run was actually good, I think, and wasn't even enough for the podium so. It's hard to fathom that we are 'reaching the limit of Rampage'. Certainly with perfected landing design and perfect execution, almost anything is possible but... Life isn't perfect. And fronties and double backies of this size are just not a great gamble. Odds ain't great...
Understand what you're saying, my boxing example was just a loose example of deaths in sport, not intended as a direct comparison. Michael Goolaerts died in a televised road cycling race a few years ago perhaps that is a better example.
And I agree, the event should be as safe as possible but I've seen few people actually offer up any valid solutions that don't involve either cancelling the event or massively changing it to a completely different type of event. I feel a new venue would do alot of good but other than that I struggle to think of any valid ways to reduce the danger if the riders continue to push the way they choose to.
It's a unique event where the riders are fully responsible for what they ride and how they ride it. A byproduct of this when you bring the best dudes on the planet; they're going to push the boundaries and thats dangerous.
I liked my idea even though it will, of course, never be used.
It was to have a TOP and BOTTOM section. Where the top is about free riding and creative raw lines, and then the bottom is where tricks are allowed. Which wouldn't be notably different from your Fest Series, Nines, Joyride, etc.
And it would, regardless of venue change, allow riders to actually just cut fun lines that are safer. Instead of using the MAJORITY of their dig week grafting on these huge landings that need to be PERFECT because they literally can't have it be less than perfect for what they are attempting.
And yeah, it will never happen but there's some kind of IDEA in there about how to keep Rampage sick but not be live recording people's near deaths year after year. If Silva fails a double backie down at the bottom on a big double, sure. It will at least be statistically safer. Not trying to get into the habit of watching lifeless-like bodies tumbling down a hill.
I just fear that, like others have stated, if you tried to take an anonymous poll with current and former Rampage riders... Almost none of them would say the event needs changes. Are they too biased being the ones that benefit from it? Maybe. But I can't see a scenario where the event is changed 'against the riders will'. I can see it either staying as is, or being cancelled.
Interesting for sure but I feel like the actual reality of the top being "about free riding and creative raw lines" isn't practical or that interesting to most, athletes probably included. The concept of what that actually entails is barely even tangible. Either you get a bunch of people just skidding down some loose dirt or you get people who will build the biggest shit they can like gee's drop last year which is a whole other kind of danger.
And trying a double backflip on the lower section still caries a great risk and the bottom is just going to end up like x games/ slopestyle if this were the case. And a natural byproduct of this is people are going to be pushing to do harder and harder tricks which again, is its own kind of danger.
hey man you say skiddin on loose dirt and im already HALF MAST so lets not kink shame over here...
I think one thing to remember when comparing to other sports is that 20% of the participants of rampage have potentially life altering injuries FROM A ONE DAY EVENT with 18 people. All these other sports listed are having a couple people die at worst, and probably just as many life altering injuries with hundreds of participants over multiple events (10-100) for the entire year. Isle of Mann excluded. if 20% of football players were sidelined for the season every game, we would be concerned.
The original draft of my last post actually went off on a little Isle of Man TT tangent. I'm sure most people here are at least aware of the event, but it's brutal on a level Rampage can't touch. I enjoy watching the IoM TT footage in spite of this danger but for some strange reason I feel differently about Rampage and I don't know if I can explain why. I suppose maybe it's partly because every single IoM rider goes out knowing full well that they might not come back, and that the only way to win is to push it right to that limit?
It's tough but more or less, yes that's the difference. It's objectively a high speed race. And going slower is safer. You or I could cruise a motorcycle on the course and be fine.
With Rampage... The danger is inherent in the environment. Just digging is kinda dangerous tbh lol. And the people gunning for a win are definitely in more danger, but it's just dangerous for anybody dropping in at all whatsoever. Or to put it another way "there isnt an objective way to make it objectively safe". The only solution would be, don't bring your bicycle up there. Hell maybe don't even hike it, those are cliffs lol
Humans are just wild man. At LEAST... at LEAST these guys are doing it for a pay check with life-altering rewards to match life-altering consequences (the other way).
I think back to what Seth Enslow did in crusty demons for... Nothing, to my knowledge? And it makes it harder and harder to make a logical case for changing or cancelling Rampage. Simply because, they will turn RIGHT the fcuk around and go do similar shit elsewhere lol. I still like my idea, no bias at all, of the top being a freeride zone about terrain usage (not just who can make the biggest drop)... Think battle ship, Brendogs lines, etc. And then the BOTTOM being the trickable slope style area. I mean it already is if we're being honest. But it's the hard tricks up top that seem to cause the most drama. IMO. But I know deep down in the soul I don't have (ginger), that Rampage riders themselves would vote against that change. So the show must go on (shrugs)
I think it’s much like @kokokorokokoko stated a bit back.
At the Isle of Mann or big mountain skiing, people have a long history of dying in pursuit of the limit. The risks aren’t theoretical, they are explicit and proven and collectively we’ve agreed to accept the costs.
At Rampage, no one has died yet, but we all feel like we can see it coming. It’s human nature to want to stop it. It’s the world’s slowest motion car crash. Basically, the most tragic outcome is still theoretical but also feels inevitable. It’s an uncomfortable corner to be in.
there are some rumours of the vertebrae affected etc... which need to be confirmed officially.. however after Adolf's recent IG post, let's hope he is in observation to see the evolution of the injury, and that he has a positive prognosis with good probability of full recovery..
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