MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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9/26/2025 2:06am
Lacanuck24 wrote:
Pretty certain. Short answer: they're racing it, so it has to go into production. The clock starts when it's first raced at a UCI event. My...

Pretty certain. Short answer: they're racing it, so it has to go into production. The clock starts when it's first raced at a UCI event. My guess would be the end of this season or the start of next. Gotta pay for those pricey molds.

Long answer: UCI rule Article 1.3.006 if you want to get into the nitty-gritty. 

The official rule across all disciplines is 12 months to be available for order, with delivery within 90 days. Road racing is pretty strictly enforced, while clearly, mountain biking isn't. Of course, there are ways to stretch the deadlines, but most seem to stay within the 12-month timeline. Pivot pushed it to roughly 16-18 months. Specialized is on... V3 visually as far as we know and closing in on three years. Mondraker seems to be taking the easiest approach by releasing a version of the Summum quietly while continuing development.

 

This has been discussed before, the rule has never been enforced in DH. 

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Artem
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9/26/2025 3:07am
The new 38 is ditching the current 38 air spring to go to a normal one where the piston runs directly on the inner stanchion instead...

The new 38 is ditching the current 38 air spring to go to a normal one where the piston runs directly on the inner stanchion instead of the current tube inside the stanchion setup. It will also be a glide core air spring. Should see some decent weight savings from that change alone.

When are we expecting the 38 to be launched? Still this year, or in 2026?

1
9/26/2025 4:53am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2025 4:54am
Lacanuck24 wrote:
Pretty certain. Short answer: they're racing it, so it has to go into production. The clock starts when it's first raced at a UCI event. My...

Pretty certain. Short answer: they're racing it, so it has to go into production. The clock starts when it's first raced at a UCI event. My guess would be the end of this season or the start of next. Gotta pay for those pricey molds.

Long answer: UCI rule Article 1.3.006 if you want to get into the nitty-gritty. 

The official rule across all disciplines is 12 months to be available for order, with delivery within 90 days. Road racing is pretty strictly enforced, while clearly, mountain biking isn't. Of course, there are ways to stretch the deadlines, but most seem to stay within the 12-month timeline. Pivot pushed it to roughly 16-18 months. Specialized is on... V3 visually as far as we know and closing in on three years. Mondraker seems to be taking the easiest approach by releasing a version of the Summum quietly while continuing development.

 

Jakub_G wrote:

You mean like numerous specialized prototypes, intense prototypes, mondraker prototypes went into production right? That UCI rule only applies to road racing.

The rule applies to all disciplines. Just not as strictly enforced outside of Road and Track cycling. XC mountain biking is fairly regulated. It's the "others" that are allowed to play it loose.  If the UCI really wanted to, they could come in and enforce the 12-month rule, fine teams, and ban equipment. Clearly, brands are finding every loophole they can or seeing how far they can go before the UCI pushes back. My mistake on the Mondraker release, just an update of the old bike. 

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/7s1ma6mVAVlFwi8rRgy0Iw/1bef53…

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dwhere
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9/26/2025 6:08am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2025 6:09am
Lacanuck24 wrote:
Pretty certain. Short answer: they're racing it, so it has to go into production. The clock starts when it's first raced at a UCI event. My...

Pretty certain. Short answer: they're racing it, so it has to go into production. The clock starts when it's first raced at a UCI event. My guess would be the end of this season or the start of next. Gotta pay for those pricey molds.

Long answer: UCI rule Article 1.3.006 if you want to get into the nitty-gritty. 

The official rule across all disciplines is 12 months to be available for order, with delivery within 90 days. Road racing is pretty strictly enforced, while clearly, mountain biking isn't. Of course, there are ways to stretch the deadlines, but most seem to stay within the 12-month timeline. Pivot pushed it to roughly 16-18 months. Specialized is on... V3 visually as far as we know and closing in on three years. Mondraker seems to be taking the easiest approach by releasing a version of the Summum quietly while continuing development.

 

Jakub_G wrote:

You mean like numerous specialized prototypes, intense prototypes, mondraker prototypes went into production right? That UCI rule only applies to road racing.

Lacanuck24 wrote:
The rule applies to all disciplines. Just not as strictly enforced outside of Road and Track cycling. XC mountain biking is fairly regulated. It's the "others"...

The rule applies to all disciplines. Just not as strictly enforced outside of Road and Track cycling. XC mountain biking is fairly regulated. It's the "others" that are allowed to play it loose.  If the UCI really wanted to, they could come in and enforce the 12-month rule, fine teams, and ban equipment. Clearly, brands are finding every loophole they can or seeing how far they can go before the UCI pushes back. My mistake on the Mondraker release, just an update of the old bike. 

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/7s1ma6mVAVlFwi8rRgy0Iw/1bef53…

I remember hearing teams just show they changed something small every so often so the 12 months always gets pushed out. This is alot easier to do with mtb as they can show they changed kinematics via linkages and pivots. Road bikes would mean a whole new carbon mold. 

1
9/26/2025 6:29am

While there is a minority of gravel bikers who would truly benefit just from getting a mtb.  I think the majority do gravel because it’s a pretty safe form of exercise.

Trek’s choices will make it a good bike for both parties.  The more adventurous gravel riders hitting single track can run fatter tires and the less adventurous can just have something that rides a bit smoother/comfortable than a rigid bike.

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9/26/2025 6:41am
While there is a minority of gravel bikers who would truly benefit just from getting a mtb.  I think the majority do gravel because it’s a...

While there is a minority of gravel bikers who would truly benefit just from getting a mtb.  I think the majority do gravel because it’s a pretty safe form of exercise.

Trek’s choices will make it a good bike for both parties.  The more adventurous gravel riders hitting single track can run fatter tires and the less adventurous can just have something that rides a bit smoother/comfortable than a rigid bike.

In my brain, I saw my new commuter that I can take some alt lines on the way home. 

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mfoga
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9/26/2025 6:50am

I don't see a need for rear suspension on a gravel bike.  At that point just get a mtn bike.  I like my gravel bike for quick rides on mellow terrain or mixed terrain.  It a different kind of work out more like road bike as far as cadence than a mtn bike. 

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shape
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9/26/2025 6:52am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2025 6:52am
rugbyred wrote:

I believe Steve Peat did that. The bearings would last a run as the oil leaked out on the way down. 

comatosegi wrote:

I believe you can run the ceramic ones without grease.

joshmtb wrote:
You probably can, but you shouldn't. Any bearing even with the "gothic arch" style race design will experience microscopic amounts skidding. Running a bearing dry might...

You probably can, but you shouldn't. Any bearing even with the "gothic arch" style race design will experience microscopic amounts skidding. Running a bearing dry might feel good in an unloaded test but the moment the load is applied lubricants will help 

Grease / oil is used in bearings only for protection against overheating and corrosion. Lowering the friction between rolling elements is not welcomed as it may finally cause sliding and surfaces degradation. 

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9/26/2025 6:55am
mfoga wrote:
I don't see a need for rear suspension on a gravel bike.  At that point just get a mtn bike.  I like my gravel bike for...

I don't see a need for rear suspension on a gravel bike.  At that point just get a mtn bike.  I like my gravel bike for quick rides on mellow terrain or mixed terrain.  It a different kind of work out more like road bike as far as cadence than a mtn bike. 

Your Opinion Man GIFs | Tenor

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Primoz
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9/26/2025 6:57am

No, the balls genuinely run (rotate) on a layer of oil (even if greased, grease is just very thick oil at the end of the day for the purpose of this discussion) and technically do not come in contact with the races. If they do, you get wear, overheating, etc. 

3
9/26/2025 7:00am

Gravel bikes has become too wide of a category of bikes, what we need is subcategories! The downgravel, the enduravel, the graero...

 

35
9/26/2025 7:06am
While there is a minority of gravel bikers who would truly benefit just from getting a mtb.  I think the majority do gravel because it’s a...

While there is a minority of gravel bikers who would truly benefit just from getting a mtb.  I think the majority do gravel because it’s a pretty safe form of exercise.

Trek’s choices will make it a good bike for both parties.  The more adventurous gravel riders hitting single track can run fatter tires and the less adventurous can just have something that rides a bit smoother/comfortable than a rigid bike.

I feel I fall into the majority there.. I ride my gravel bike like a road bike that allows for more options. Mine is set-up more along the lines of what some now call an all-road bike. 2x drivetrain and 38s let me do some fun dirt and still roll decently on the pavement. 

I'm not sure how I feel about suspension and gravel.. Maybe if I was racing or doing longer rougher dirt rides, I might want it, but I'm in the camp of if I feel I need suspension, I have a mountain bike..

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dolface
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9/26/2025 7:24am

No one needs any of these bikes, but if they make riding more interesting or fun I'm all for it. The Checkout isn't for me (at least right now) but for folks who are doing really long bikepacking trips/races it's probably awesome.

It's noteworthy to me that a lot of the objections being posted mirror those from when suspension was first introduced to MTBs...

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9/26/2025 8:15am
I feel I fall into the majority there.. I ride my gravel bike like a road bike that allows for more options. Mine is set-up more...

I feel I fall into the majority there.. I ride my gravel bike like a road bike that allows for more options. Mine is set-up more along the lines of what some now call an all-road bike. 2x drivetrain and 38s let me do some fun dirt and still roll decently on the pavement. 

I'm not sure how I feel about suspension and gravel.. Maybe if I was racing or doing longer rougher dirt rides, I might want it, but I'm in the camp of if I feel I need suspension, I have a mountain bike..

I was like „why is he skeptical about suspension on gravel bikes and has an enduro fork on it at the same time“ then it clicked

8
9/26/2025 9:19am
Goupil wrote:

Gravel bikes has become too wide of a category of bikes, what we need is subcategories! The downgravel, the enduravel, the graero...

 

Gravelcross?

Roadgravel?

Graveltrials?

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Primoz
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9/26/2025 9:23am

FWIW I am amazed at how uncomfortable the ride is anytime I sit on a MTB hardtail. After racing xc on a hardtail for 6 years 20 years ago. Maybe a full suss gravel bike would make sense for someone used to a trail/enduro bike and the comfort it brings. 

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seanfisseli
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9/26/2025 10:27am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2025 10:28am
Primoz wrote:
FWIW I am amazed at how uncomfortable the ride is anytime I sit on a MTB hardtail. After racing xc on a hardtail for 6 years...

FWIW I am amazed at how uncomfortable the ride is anytime I sit on a MTB hardtail. After racing xc on a hardtail for 6 years 20 years ago. Maybe a full suss gravel bike would make sense for someone used to a trail/enduro bike and the comfort it brings. 

I feel you, but some hardtails are legitimately comfortable (when reframed as gravel bikes…) speci Fuse is stiff and sucks, epic hardtail is compliant and feels so good to ride. 

im telling you guys, the majority of the gravel segment has never tried a mtb (thinks they don’t need one, overbiked, etc.) or doesn’t even need a “gravel bike” (just needs a road bike with 38s and lower gearing.) the gravel category exists because people think road bikes can’t have 45c tires and also that mountain bikes are silly and unnecessary for singletrack. What we see in practice though is that every year the tires on the gravel bikes get wider and more and more suspension is brought out. 

This is all from experience. I worked at speci for years and thought mtb was dumb, so I bought a crux cyclocross bike and tried to ride that on singletrack. It works and it’s fun and I was “ahead of the curve” but in reality I was just the smartest idiot. Mark my words, the tide is shifting massively right now as people realize they actually love riding light hardtails, not gravel bikes.

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9/26/2025 10:41am
Goupil wrote:

Gravel bikes has become too wide of a category of bikes, what we need is subcategories! The downgravel, the enduravel, the graero...

 

Gravelcross?

Roadgravel?

Graveltrials?

Un(g)ravel

7
9/26/2025 10:50am Edited Date/Time 9/26/2025 10:50am
Primoz wrote:
FWIW I am amazed at how uncomfortable the ride is anytime I sit on a MTB hardtail. After racing xc on a hardtail for 6 years...

FWIW I am amazed at how uncomfortable the ride is anytime I sit on a MTB hardtail. After racing xc on a hardtail for 6 years 20 years ago. Maybe a full suss gravel bike would make sense for someone used to a trail/enduro bike and the comfort it brings. 

I don't disagree, however have found that if I want to be comfortable on my HT, I need to be much more active on the bike (more intentional with line choice, unweighting/raising the front/rear wheels over stuff, etc). "Plowing" either downhill or up is not a great time. Turns out I can't ride my 130mm, SS steel hardtail in the same manner as my RAAW Madonna. Lol

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mfoga
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9/26/2025 11:01am
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Primoz
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9/26/2025 12:43pm
Primoz wrote:
FWIW I am amazed at how uncomfortable the ride is anytime I sit on a MTB hardtail. After racing xc on a hardtail for 6 years...

FWIW I am amazed at how uncomfortable the ride is anytime I sit on a MTB hardtail. After racing xc on a hardtail for 6 years 20 years ago. Maybe a full suss gravel bike would make sense for someone used to a trail/enduro bike and the comfort it brings. 

saskskier wrote:
I don't disagree, however have found that if I want to be comfortable on my HT, I need to be much more active on the bike...

I don't disagree, however have found that if I want to be comfortable on my HT, I need to be much more active on the bike (more intentional with line choice, unweighting/raising the front/rear wheels over stuff, etc). "Plowing" either downhill or up is not a great time. Turns out I can't ride my 130mm, SS steel hardtail in the same manner as my RAAW Madonna. Lol

I meant more along the lines of you feel every seam of tarmac compared to a full suss MTB. Wasn't talking about singletracks, far from it.

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monarchmason
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9/26/2025 3:23pm
IMG 7379.jpeg?VersionId=vlOs
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9/26/2025 3:41pm

I don't think 4.23mm chainstays are possible..

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brash
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9/26/2025 3:54pm

thats average bro..... right?

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joshmtb
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9/26/2025 4:04pm
comatosegi wrote:

I believe you can run the ceramic ones without grease.

joshmtb wrote:
You probably can, but you shouldn't. Any bearing even with the "gothic arch" style race design will experience microscopic amounts skidding. Running a bearing dry might...

You probably can, but you shouldn't. Any bearing even with the "gothic arch" style race design will experience microscopic amounts skidding. Running a bearing dry might feel good in an unloaded test but the moment the load is applied lubricants will help 

shape wrote:
Grease / oil is used in bearings only for protection against overheating and corrosion. Lowering the friction between rolling elements is not welcomed as it may...

Grease / oil is used in bearings only for protection against overheating and corrosion. Lowering the friction between rolling elements is not welcomed as it may finally cause sliding and surfaces degradation. 

All ball bearings have an amount of slip. You can't rotate a sphere in a u shaped track without slip unless you have an infinitely small contact. I.e. have an infinitely stiff material. By making the balls and races really hard you minimise the contact patch and slip. The sliding friction is minimised by including a lubricant. 

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9/26/2025 7:56pm
brash wrote:

thats average bro..... right?

I hope so...

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comatosegi
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9/27/2025 10:45am
The new 38 is ditching the current 38 air spring to go to a normal one where the piston runs directly on the inner stanchion instead...

The new 38 is ditching the current 38 air spring to go to a normal one where the piston runs directly on the inner stanchion instead of the current tube inside the stanchion setup. It will also be a glide core air spring. Should see some decent weight savings from that change alone.

Jotegr wrote:
Is it supposed to be like what's in the new 36, or even more conventional than that? I have heard very positive things from heavy riders...

Is it supposed to be like what's in the new 36, or even more conventional than that? I have heard very positive things from heavy riders on the new 36 as far as improved performance under braking, etc. which they attribute to the new air spring. If that's the case, it seems like it would do the opposite of differentiating  it from the Podium. 

Only have one day on the new 36, seems to meet the hype from what I can tell.

8
9/28/2025 8:09am
I feel you, but some hardtails are legitimately comfortable (when reframed as gravel bikes…) speci Fuse is stiff and sucks, epic hardtail is compliant and feels...

I feel you, but some hardtails are legitimately comfortable (when reframed as gravel bikes…) speci Fuse is stiff and sucks, epic hardtail is compliant and feels so good to ride. 

im telling you guys, the majority of the gravel segment has never tried a mtb (thinks they don’t need one, overbiked, etc.) or doesn’t even need a “gravel bike” (just needs a road bike with 38s and lower gearing.) the gravel category exists because people think road bikes can’t have 45c tires and also that mountain bikes are silly and unnecessary for singletrack. What we see in practice though is that every year the tires on the gravel bikes get wider and more and more suspension is brought out. 

This is all from experience. I worked at speci for years and thought mtb was dumb, so I bought a crux cyclocross bike and tried to ride that on singletrack. It works and it’s fun and I was “ahead of the curve” but in reality I was just the smartest idiot. Mark my words, the tide is shifting massively right now as people realize they actually love riding light hardtails, not gravel bikes.

Gravel bikes and endurance road bikes are what I used to recommend to a lot of people. Although, now both of those fall into what some are calling the "all-road" bike as gravel bikes are becoming more like early 29er hardtails.. IMO, these all-road bikes are perfect for people who aren't fully committed roadies and want a bike that gives more options on where they can ride. Perfect for dealing with crap roads and even worse drivers where I live.. 

You mentioned previously working at Specialized.. It was a trip to Morgan Hill for SBCU that let me try a Crux and realize that those bikes were more capable off road than I would have ever expected.. Won't replace a mountain bike, but just another type of fun.

4
9/28/2025 8:58am
The new 38 is ditching the current 38 air spring to go to a normal one where the piston runs directly on the inner stanchion instead...

The new 38 is ditching the current 38 air spring to go to a normal one where the piston runs directly on the inner stanchion instead of the current tube inside the stanchion setup. It will also be a glide core air spring. Should see some decent weight savings from that change alone.

Jotegr wrote:
Is it supposed to be like what's in the new 36, or even more conventional than that? I have heard very positive things from heavy riders...

Is it supposed to be like what's in the new 36, or even more conventional than that? I have heard very positive things from heavy riders on the new 36 as far as improved performance under braking, etc. which they attribute to the new air spring. If that's the case, it seems like it would do the opposite of differentiating  it from the Podium. 

comatosegi wrote:

Only have one day on the new 36, seems to meet the hype from what I can tell.

I'm hoping they use the same Internal Diameter and stuff so I can upgrade to it from my current 38

2
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