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Regarding the usage of mid valve and avalanche... Avalanche is using an open bath damper and not a closed cartridge. That in and of itself, is not relevant to resulting damper performance... however how you get there is greatly impacted. I digress, when dealing with an open bath damper, you're banking on foaming and aeration of the damper fluid. This means that the usage of a mid valve for damping is much more common/relevant and it makes the overall mid valve vs base valve damping force balance a different animal for open bath vs closed cartridge dampers. This is a theoretical point to make in this case.
For what it's worth, I would love a discussion on this with regards to the different structure/design of the fork dampers that are currently on the market. That being said, it has nothing to do with upside-down forks other than the fact that each of the USD forks has it's own damping circuit design and that obviously impacts the end result, perception and performance.
Doesn't Intend offer the same fork damper with the same valving in two different packages - open bath and closed cartridge? I have the open bath version and am perfectly happy with it. Cornelius called it a personal preference with comparable performance, IIRC.
those were the green age forks before the optimized ones
The Essential shared the same damping parts as the Originals and Blackline forks, but it's a semi open bath system instead of the closed bladder version.
I haven't taken the damper apart, yet so I don't know how similar it is to other versions.
those are the ones they refer to as the green age ones (due to the sks seals), yours probably are having the older damper but the black racing bros seals
The newer sealed damper is very similar to the previous open bath version. Intend basically put a rubber bladder over the damper body, the compression unit still comes off in one piece from the bottom of the leg.
The shim stacks are quite different however, the older version had a stiffer compression and a softer rebound tune. There is also (as of 2025 or so) a new LSC needle that is different from before. It has a slightly wider range, smaller adjustment steps (17 clicks vs 11), and closes off the LSC circuit more than the previous version.
When it comes to intend guards, these are literally just clip on C sections: https://www.instagram.com/cerniworks/p/C-xTxIZIlOW/
Made a video of me yappin about my experience and tuning journey with the infinity EN but tldr bullets below:
- Damper tune not to my preference but solid architecture and easy to retune: Similarly to Skunk works, I wanted more compression and faster rebound. What I ended up on below. Interested in trying out the zero bleed LSC needle SWS mentioned.
Stock "Optimized" Tune: Compression: 14x0.1, 13x0.1, 12x0.1 Rebound: 14x0.15, 13x0.15, 12x0.15
My Current Tune: Compression: 14x0.15, 14x0.10, 13x0.10 Rebound: 14x0.10, 12x0.15, 12x0.15
- I'm a fan of the airspring, very linear. Running way over recommended pressure. Using the least progressive/additional volume cap. Tried linearlizer but did not like it at all, way too progressive when running enough pressure in main to get enough support off the top/middle.
- Infinite bushing spacing due to USD plus dual crown wombo combo is awesome. How free moving/frictionless it stays under braking/chonk is insane and took a little getting used to after being used to bushing bind on traditional forks. The additional torsional flex is only a benefit for the majority of riding IMO, but I did go from a 400g alloy xc wheel (was experimenting with more flex with traditional fork) to a carbon wheel to regain some steering stiffness so I do think there is such a thing as too much torsional compliance.
So if you guys were going to buy a new inverted 170mm fork for a full power e-bike and you plan to run fork guards and a 20mm front axle, would you choose:
1) Fox Podium?
2) Intend Flash 35?
3) Wait for the Intend Flash 38?
4) wait for the new KYB (edited) given their decades of MX experience? Off the list.
It's interesting to me that Fox states that their testers clearly preferred the 20mm steel axle and others are like 'it doesn't really matter'. Certainly Fox has more testing resources but then maybe they used the wrong hub or something?
Wait the Showa fork is actually real (a new one I mean...)???
a Flash... if you going to hit high speed bikeparky stuff.. wait for 38..otherwise the 35 is enough... but also, dont be afraid of the infinity.. it actually is way better due to bushing overlap and air spring volume
I'd vote for any of the flash models. I love mine. Plus you can take them to 190mm which gives a bit of future proofing if you get a bike that might work with etc.
i‘m 96kg geared up and i would only need the 38 flash for the looks, the 35mm is more fork than i probably ever need
FWIW I emailed Intend today asking if they could recommend a HSR stack that's a bit faster than stock and they suggested removing either or both of the 13 or 12 mm shims. I may try this as I don't have the shims (currently) to try the stack SWS & unusualbread suggested
I believe it is actually KYB releasing soon.
That crown is hideous
serious upside down fork from Temu vibes on that thing.
I never thought id say this, but that colour makes Kashima look good
It is entirely possible that fork is a cheap OEM special - KYB make everything from high end A-kit supercross gear down to $100 replacement shocks for your Corolla so its hard to tell what kind of fork that actually is
It’s crap 32mm stanchions, and yeah it looks AliExpress as
It was shown at the latest bike festival in Italy
Yah, I agree. That KYB looks terrible.
I like the Flash 35 but it's likely to be discontinued shortly so I want to consider that.
why would they do that? cornelius self called the fork unnecessary
I don't know but that's what was indicated to me in an e-mail, that the 35 might not continue on.
I'm building a new e-bike and I only build a bike every other year and pretty much treat myself and go all out but am not made of unlimited money so really try and get it right. Unfortunately 90% of my decisions have to be based on reading reviews and testimonials. Even when I test ride others bikes, and I've ridden many, unless I get a week to set it up to my liking it sort of means nothing.
The new bike will 99% be the new Bosch Antidote e-bike and it can be set up as a 170 or 180mm front fork. 180mm obviously rules out the Podium, but one needs to consider the amount of leverage and weight applied to a 180mm fork when making these decisions.
Mostly, I'm all in on the Intend product but the lack of a ubiquitous 20mm front axle, and/ or torque caps, gives me pause. Fox clearly has more resources and Pro athletes (which I practically am, clearly! LOL) to test and they ended up going with a solid 20mm steel axle. Seems to me that any 170-180mm USD fork better have a 20mm axle.
if you're into intend i'd trust the man himself. if they get rid of something, they usually have a reason, i.e. not necessary
whats up! just found this thread and it's awesome!! I've been following the one on MTBR for a while with over 1,000 posts haha. took me forever to find the USD peeps but hey here i am. still reading and catching up here. i think i have a right to post as 2 years of 'thinking, planning, waiting" etc. i have this going for me heh heh
-I saw earlier (page 2 i believe...?) some folks talking about onyx hubs having huge flex? i have been running vespers for 5 years and love the brand. haven't ridden my for yet waiting for shock to show up. BUT am i in for an unpleasant surprise?
Onyx vesper on Zipp 3Zero Moto w/ Sapim spokes, built this wheel 5 years ago and still wouldn't change a thing about it! sure is compliant haha
I had a rad chat with Ollie at sea otter earlier this year. got to do a little side by side twist test; my 38 (zipp/Onyx) vs his Flash Original (not forged lower legs/blackline) with nobl/onyx hubs. this was an immediate sell for me as I finally got to feel & visualize the twist flex was nothing like I thought it'd be...
still waiting on 26' X2 to show up (hopefully today), using it temporarily until Hover MC is done. planning on riding tomorrow. will keep everyone up to date.
I've only ever ridden Fox on my bikes in my entire mtb history- so I'm pretty dang excited as this is a huge change. riding style is very aggressive/ playful, level is pro. did my research but I'll still be transparent what i feel and find out.
cheers,
I thought only the 'original' states no torque caps? while blackline has no statement on them..
I would also imagine a forged unipiece lower is stiffer than a pressed in lug, no?
Congrats, that's a baller setup! Yeah, my Vesper/Nobl front wheel feels flexier than my burly Hadley wheels in the Essential, but that makes no difference on the trails. And I bet my Vesper wheel is way more compliant than yours, with crazy 3x/2x lacing and old school bladed Ti spokes. 😎
thanks yo! okay good to hear, i have a buddy of mine that is going to make some custom torque caps for my hub, as the onyx ones dont look like they'll fit the shape of the dropout.
oh are you sure about that? 🤣have you ever ridden or felt a 3zero moto? haha i can step in the hoop and pull/push the rim maybe 3 inches or more
Zipp's are gnarly. let me see if i can find my old youtube video when i got them.
*edit* i knew i recorded something back then, sorry for camera angle. 2:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrypau3IsOw&t=163s
Welcome to the wold of inverted forks Colin!
In regards to Intend and torque caps, the lug design has changed over the past couple years. It's not that all torque caps are no longer compatible, as much as they are not as effective. The contact area between hub and fork lug is much smaller now and any advantage an oversized end cap interface had is now lost.
Left original version, middle current, and right blackline.
I agree that the one piece forged version should be inherently stiffer. It would be really interesting to test torsional deflection between the blackline version with a standard end cap hub and the original pressed/bonded lug with a Chris King torque cap hub.
this is gold right here, thank you Mr. SKS! knew there are differences, but getting to visualize it like this is so cool. cheers
funny- before you replied i was going to get some measurements to get end caps made, but would be too complicated with new shape- so no worries I'll just leave them. but would be pretty cool to have a cap to match the contour heh heh
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