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Hello everyone,
I'm following up to share the latest details on the Telemetry V3 family: BYB Telemetry V3 and BYB Telemetry V3 Pro
Here you can find just an easy summary table with the main differences (there are a lot of new features, not listed below...otherwise the comparison table would have been way longer!)
More info here: https://bybtech.it/product/telemetry
For any questions, we're always available to reply: enrico@bybtech.it
Best
Enrico
why limit data access on the cheaper version?
Hello @sethimus,
mainly because it's a different hardware with a lower sampling rate and, in general, lower capabilities.
Also, this version wants to be more entry-level by removing advanced data analysis and tabs.
Hope BYB starts shipping soon. I'm hoping to ramp up my education and put this to use with the youth enduro team I co-coach. If you think adults have a hard time explaining what they feel most of the kids are less versed. #rockon.
but what if i want the good enough edition but the option to export the data? i mean it’s my data, i should be able to do whatever i want with it? why should it stay in the app?
Hello @sethimus,
The ability to export raw data is available exclusively in the BYB Telemetry Pro version. We’ve designed our product this way to keep the basic version more accessible, while offering advanced features like raw data export to users who need deeper analysis and more flexibility.
I understand you guys want to incentivize and reward people for purchasing the more advanced version, but you have to understand how skittish consumers might be given the industry as a whole and the MI2 debacle in particular. At my level of tech nerdery, I'd probably be fine not exporting data out of the gate. But what happens if BYB isn't around anymore? Is all my fancy hardware worthless?
I know you guys have been around for awhile and I think you operate outside of the mountain bike world, but very little feels like a safe bet these days. Regardless, best of luck and a genuine thank you for working hard and taking risks to make this tech available to regular riders at as reasonable a price as possible. I hope it's a big success.
this is not consumer friendly, if you are not around anymore and the app is no longer available the whole system is not more than a very expensive paperweight.
Hello,
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback — totally valid concerns. We get that investing in tech like this can feel risky, especially with how quickly things can change.
Our goal is to make sure, if something happens, you always have access to your data, even without our app. It won’t become a paperweight.
We’ve been around for years (we own 100% of the company shares) and we plan to stay, but we’re also building with the mindset that you should be in control of your gear no matter what. On a side note, the app is always needed to decode the binary file and export the CSV data. So, in any case, the app is always needed.
Really appreciate your support and kind words!
"Our goal is to make sure, if something happens, you always have access to your data, even without our app. It won’t become a paperweight."
Would that mean enabling the export function in case the company would go under? Or is there another way to do that already? Because opening access to features before abandoning software/products is something that is often talked about and rarely done when it is needed... And if an app update would be required, I don't think that was an option in the situation Motion Instruments found themselves in for example.
Hello @Primoz ,
I'm personally coding both the software and the app. Making a new release the day before something is happening would not be an issue.
By the way, nothing will happen.
Best,
Enrico
If you are worried, why not just buy the pro kit? The other option is https://syn.bike/hardware it’s going to be a similar price.
I'm not in the market for either, I was just echoing @sethimus sentiment. Too many times the promises of "nothing is happening" and "we are going nowhere" have turned out to be empty for various reasons. Things happen. Companies fail. People quit (or worse...). Projects are abandoned. Old hardware is not supported in newer releases anymore. Etc. What @sethimus pointed out is just good consumer practice which is getting even more important in the modern days of essentially renting, not owning things, walled gardens and other issues with access to data/features on physical things you can hold in your hands.
Sorry for sounding grumpy, I am not trying to attack anyone (BY
, I'm just trying to drive home the point @sethimus made originally as it is a really important point in this day and age.
how about i don’t need those extra features? why should i pay more to access the data I PRODUCED MYSELF? is it so hard to understand that some ppl want to own the stuff they PAID FOR?
The BYB Telemetry V3 version is designed as a more basic and easy-to-use solution, including only essential features. In general, V3 users are focused on quick insights rather than exporting or working with raw data.
The Pro version, on the other hand, includes all advanced features, such as raw data export in CSV format, to meet the needs of users who want to dive deeper, code custom analyses, or integrate the data into their own workflows.
Given the company's track record, I think we can approach these concerns confidently and without worrying too much. We're always available to help and to reply to your questions.
Best,
Enrico
my 2 cents -
The BYB desktop software is a standalone .exe and not web-based so will always be functional even if the company did disappear and/or the mobile app was removed. Sadly only for windows (but so is everything) but theres some security there at least where it should be functional as long as the hardware lasts.
The raw data export is something that is pretty important for me though - personally I get pretty fussy about the way things are displayed or the metrics I can look at so having the option to export is super important. Having some kind of flexibility for custom sensors or analysis are 2 major factors for me, and in my opinion I would like to see companies either -
a) Produce really good hardware that can be used with any software, which would encourage lots of hardware sales
or b) Make really good software that can import data from any source - maybe free for BYB (if it was BY
users and paid to import other brands, and be able to customise the import format so the data matches up. So it can be win-win and ideally you would make both so good that customers choose the hardware AND the software but its almost impossible to please everyone
That way you can win on both fronts - like a lot of people have brought up, I have become pretty wary of investing in any type of platform if there isn't a guaranteed future for it. I basically started learning programming, electronics and networking just to get some independence because I can't afford to sink money in to something that might be taken away in a few years. As much as people might genuinely intend to carry on a project there are so many unforeseen events which can get in the way you have no control over. This applies to everything in tech these days - every week there are more consumers who have the rug pulled out by companies going under or prices being raised so I don't think I'm the only one who is getting tired of it
Right now, there is a lot of functionalilty I would like to add with a DAQ system but I don't think I would be investing in another off-the-shelf version as it stands. The BYB V3 does look quite good for a beginner option and I would recommend that but there is also next to no alternative now MI is gone. Syn.bike looks really nice for a high end option but I haven't looked too far in to it. I would want to be able to expand and customise it myself, and again not rely on the company for ongoing software support.
Following this thread from the beginning (and the Jekyll kinematics thread) I kind of feel that if you have the raw data, software is not an issue. There look to be custom data visualisation options around and I guess for a lot of things you could even use Excel or quite simple scripts (histograms, dynamic sag, etc.).
I agree, having a hardware agnostic software and software agnostic hardware would be ideal, but would be ideal for tinkerers. To counter my (and your) comments I bet most buyers of these cheaper systems need their hand held through the process, at least in the beginning, so it makes sense to have a package deal. But yeah, like it has also been said, there are too many cases of rugs being pulled and things happening to be comfortable with a walled garden...
To be honest, if I was doing a project like this (this is the reason I'm following this thread after all), I'd do open source hardware and sell a kit to cover expenses for the people that want a turnkey solution and do it software agnostic.
I'm curious about why Mondraker's MIND system didn't succeed.
The system has distance sensors in the front fork and rear suspension pivot. Mondraker could have easily done the basic position based derivates and therefore general suggestions for end user on balance and suspension setup on their web portal.
I have this system on my bike, but the electronic hardware keeps failing. I've stopped sending it back to the factory for replacement because it took them over a year to create entirely new hardware for the Summum, and then development seemed to stop altogether. The phone application updates are infrequent, if they happen at all.
Does anyone have any insights on this?
Just to correct this slightly. I use the BYB app on MacOS. It is not Windows only.
Everything else I agree with.
Hello there!
Would be absolutely great to get some screen shots from a run and for someone to go through exactly what there analysing. I’m sure it would be useful for people and for everyone to talk about and give their opiniones on certain things.
I’m totally new to this so abit of learning from people who know their stuff would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Downamics in Patreon have some great content like this. It’s a small fee but it’s the only mountain bike detailed data acq tutorial information I have found.
I'm two tuning sessions in to using my new v3 kit. So far it is solid and is definitely helping bike setup. Lots of learning to go to.make the most of it.
First takeway is that my suspension needed to run a fair bit faster, was already mostly balanced for spring rates, and my rear shock will need a tune to get faster rebound and lower compression damping.
I purchased the kit for my personal use and may rent it out eventually.
Only two complaints so far.
1. Bluetooth would be a nicer way to connect than wifi. I assume wifi is better for faster file transfer but it is also a bit of a pain having to force the connection and my samsung wouldn't stay connected (phone issue not byb). I've ended up using an older phone that doesn't have an active lte connection or any other wifi connections as my on trail tuning phone.
2. A more featured software set would be nice. Especially the balance feature set and data export.
@enricorodella22 could you offer this for a fee?
For a private user there is no way I can justify $6000nzd for a pro kit that I don't need the hardware features of. But I do have the background to do signal processing outside of byb software or use the more detailed analysis features in byb.
Hello @brook.mitchell.7 ,
Thanks for your feedback!
1. Bluetooth is on board on the V3 Pro. Indeed, you can connect to a power meter or heart rate sensor to get data from them. Bluetooth is only fine for getting data from these sensors (at 1Hz), but it's not feasible at all for a file transfer because it will be too slow. Just consider that if you have a 2MB file, you may need more than 3-4 minutes to download it. Since a BYB Telemetry file is about 10MB (a lot of data in it), you'll need something like 15/20 minutes to download one single file. Not acceptable at all.
To fix your issue, you can set the "BYB Telemetry network" as static. You should be able to find the tweak for this in the user manual.
2. In the next software release, we'll enable the Suspension view.
Best,
Enrico
@enricorodella22 thanks for the quick reply and explanation!
Another thing I am playing with is shock mounts. The options in the kit are great but to make fitting easier I'm thinking of making the following.
1. A coil shock adapter like what comes in the box but with the ring split in half and joined by a male/female interlock (like a puzzle piece). This would mean you could put it one at both ends of the spring.
2. A 5mm and 6mm hex insert that can press or bolt through suspension hardware.
Does the coil spring adapter still have a gap in it or is it a continuous ring? a 2-piece adapter might work but I find the spring mounts have a couple of problems - the twisting and loads of a spring can get off centre and break or bend the spring seat, so you want a fairly solid, continous platform at both ends. They also tend to rotate in use, so the potentiometer gets twisted, or if the frame has tight clearance the mount starts to contact the frame. If there was an easy way to lock the orientation they could work a lot better
Still has a cutout for the shaft. Seems to be ok without much movement so far. Under a springdex it doesn't seem to rotate much/at all.
Yes, there's a small cutout so you can install the coil spring adapter without removing the bottom plate/spring. It's enough to unscrew the spring and fit it into position.
In general, the coil spring adapter is not twisting, but it depends on the shock/spring and several other factors. You can also consider using some double-sided tape to stick it.
We're running the same setup on motos (like Honda CRF450 - very tight), and it's pretty solid.
Did you see the mounts from Honda HRC to swingarm? Very trick! Mounting on the moto shocks is sooo tight, very little room for error.
That's pretty cool! They would need to do some modeling of the kinemematics to make sure you were interpreting the sensor discplacement correctly.
Yeah it would be the same as doing a leverage ratio and you could get data from “axle”. Really cool idea because the moto shock installation is such a crazy process!
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