Anecdotal Drivetrain Durability

2/26/2025 6:10pm
I definitely go through high-quality rings faster than XO cassettes and chains (using GRAX, although I think I'm getting ready to bite the bullet on Silca)...

I definitely go through high-quality rings faster than XO cassettes and chains (using GRAX, although I think I'm getting ready to bite the bullet on Silca).  For me, an XO drivetrain wears out laterally before longitudinally.  By that I mean XO chains become too flexy laterally well before they elongate.  And I seem to wear out the shifting ramps on an XO cassette before the teeth.  For me, this manifests itself as having to decrease cable tension to get good shifts down the cassette, and eventually that stops producing acceptable results.

Most of my rides are on fairly rolling terrain (not winch and plummet), so I suppose I shift a lot more than some.  The lateral wear is more pronounced on my lightweight ebike, which makes sense to me because my years of relying on pressure through the cranks to determine whether I'm shifting under too much load doesn't account for the motor.

I'm a home mechanic and have always considered most Abbey shop-quality tools to be a little too heavy on consumption vs function for me, but their new chain gauge is awesome.  It measures the lateral wear and, to me, does a better job on elongation than the three prong tools.  Using the Abbey gauge on a new chain along with several chains at different stages of their lives on different bikes makes me think I'm not might not be doing something wrong or totally crazy.

ballz wrote:
I had to check the Abbey chain wear tool and it's amazing to see how they pretty much re-invented a simple ruler, powered by your own...

I had to check the Abbey chain wear tool and it's amazing to see how they pretty much re-invented a simple ruler, powered by your own eyeballs. For $44+shipping, I think I am going to stick to the good ole ruler though. I may scratch a few wear % marks to it to make it fancier.

You got to put in on your christmas list like I did.  It's great, and I didn't have to part with $50 of my own money for a chain checker. 

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TDD
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2/26/2025 10:09pm
I definitely go through high-quality rings faster than XO cassettes and chains (using GRAX, although I think I'm getting ready to bite the bullet on Silca)...

I definitely go through high-quality rings faster than XO cassettes and chains (using GRAX, although I think I'm getting ready to bite the bullet on Silca).  For me, an XO drivetrain wears out laterally before longitudinally.  By that I mean XO chains become too flexy laterally well before they elongate.  And I seem to wear out the shifting ramps on an XO cassette before the teeth.  For me, this manifests itself as having to decrease cable tension to get good shifts down the cassette, and eventually that stops producing acceptable results.

Most of my rides are on fairly rolling terrain (not winch and plummet), so I suppose I shift a lot more than some.  The lateral wear is more pronounced on my lightweight ebike, which makes sense to me because my years of relying on pressure through the cranks to determine whether I'm shifting under too much load doesn't account for the motor.

I'm a home mechanic and have always considered most Abbey shop-quality tools to be a little too heavy on consumption vs function for me, but their new chain gauge is awesome.  It measures the lateral wear and, to me, does a better job on elongation than the three prong tools.  Using the Abbey gauge on a new chain along with several chains at different stages of their lives on different bikes makes me think I'm not might not be doing something wrong or totally crazy.

Shane Miller (GPLama) has documented SRAM's high-end chains wearing laterally before longitudinally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kllF4Axn7pU

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FaahkEet
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2/27/2025 6:15am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2025 10:30am

Is there any wear downside to running a laterally  worn chain? Other than dropped chains and poor shifting, would it cause worse or unexpected wear to the cassette/pulley wheels?

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1
2/27/2025 10:12am

I get about a year of riding on a shimano xt or xtr chain. They don't wear out, I just do something stupid like whack the chainring on a big rock and destroy a couple of links. 

Teknik
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2/27/2025 11:12am

How do you keep your chains clean? What’s the most efficient way? Has anyone build any automated solution like a chain washing machine?


I think this is inportant part of the equation.

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FaahkEet
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2/27/2025 11:23am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2025 11:23am

My chain doesn't really gunk up or build up much debris. I use Dumonde Tech original lube and it stays mostly clean. Occasionally I'll take a toothbrush and dry scrub the pulley wheels, chain ring and chain if there's some build up. If it begins to really build up I run the chain through a hand held chain cleaner, still on the bike filled with hot water and Simple Green, taking a toothbrush also with hot water and simple green to the cassette/pulley wheels/chain ring. Wipe dry, then let air dry, reapply Dumonde.

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segamethod
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2/27/2025 12:36pm
Teknik wrote:
How do you keep your chains clean? What’s the most efficient way? Has anyone build any automated solution like a chain washing machine?I think this is...

How do you keep your chains clean? What’s the most efficient way? Has anyone build any automated solution like a chain washing machine?


I think this is inportant part of the equation.

Using chain wax instead of traditional lubricants is a great way, particularly if you live in a dry environment. Other options include buying a cheap benchtop ultrasonic cleaner. Bonus tip: Fill the ultrasonic cleaner with distilled water only and put your chain in a sealed plastic bag with the cleaning detergent and submerge that. Keeps the mess isolated to the bag.

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2/27/2025 12:53pm
Teknik wrote:
How do you keep your chains clean? What’s the most efficient way? Has anyone build any automated solution like a chain washing machine?I think this is...

How do you keep your chains clean? What’s the most efficient way? Has anyone build any automated solution like a chain washing machine?


I think this is inportant part of the equation.

i clean my bike every ride. just a motorex brush and dawn dish soap in spray bottle. dont waste your money on bike specific stuff. wet it, bush it, rinse it, dry and wipe it. it'll look brand new everytime. i use mucoff c3 ceramic dry lube. 

2/27/2025 4:23pm
JVP wrote:
I burn through GX Eagle deralleurs in one year due to the b-bolt interface wearing and creating slop. It's metal on metal, and moves/grinds while descending...

I burn through GX Eagle deralleurs in one year due to the b-bolt interface wearing and creating slop. It's metal on metal, and moves/grinds while descending. X01s last much longer with an added bushing on the b-bolt.

Solution is to buy an X01 b-bolt and swap it onto your GX derailleur for ~$30. Then keep that bolt for future derailleurs. Makes the GX every bit as durable as the X01.

Even better is the Hall-lock mod to stop the derailleur from moving at all at the b-bolt pivot. Best way is to file a teensy bit off the X01 b-bolt bushing until you achieve the desired level of locked down. This is a good way to resurrect a GX derailleur that developed slop at the b-pivot. Downside is it's a little harder to mount your rear wheel w/out the derailleur pivoting, but it's not too bad. This mod also makes your bike a LOT quieter, which is why I do it.

In addition to slop, I have found issues with clutch durability. I know shimano has their own set of clutch issues but at least theirs are rebuildable.

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ballz
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2/27/2025 5:26pm
Teknik wrote:
How do you keep your chains clean? What’s the most efficient way? Has anyone build any automated solution like a chain washing machine?I think this is...

How do you keep your chains clean? What’s the most efficient way? Has anyone build any automated solution like a chain washing machine?


I think this is inportant part of the equation.

Remove chain, dunk it in industrial strength heavy duty degreaser, rinse and repeat until clean. Then dry / apply waxy lube. Just be careful as those purple potions will dissolve your fingers and punch holes in your eyeballs.

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2/28/2025 3:52am

Currently on an ochain with their „universal“ chainring, which somehow gets really noisy when slightly wet. Problem was nonexistent with the XT chainring, ochain says theirs is compatible with hg+, t type flat and all other 12spd options. 

Anyone know of a HG+ steel chainring for 104 BCD? Have the oneup on order but would be interested if there’s other options. 

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2/28/2025 9:48am
29 wrote:
Currently on an ochain with their „universal“ chainring, which somehow gets really noisy when slightly wet. Problem was nonexistent with the XT chainring, ochain says theirs...

Currently on an ochain with their „universal“ chainring, which somehow gets really noisy when slightly wet. Problem was nonexistent with the XT chainring, ochain says theirs is compatible with hg+, t type flat and all other 12spd options. 

Anyone know of a HG+ steel chainring for 104 BCD? Have the oneup on order but would be interested if there’s other options. 

wolftooth used to make one for their CAMO spider... I've had one, -meh... nothing beats that OE tooth profile 

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ballz
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2/28/2025 12:01pm
29 wrote:
Currently on an ochain with their „universal“ chainring, which somehow gets really noisy when slightly wet. Problem was nonexistent with the XT chainring, ochain says theirs...

Currently on an ochain with their „universal“ chainring, which somehow gets really noisy when slightly wet. Problem was nonexistent with the XT chainring, ochain says theirs is compatible with hg+, t type flat and all other 12spd options. 

Anyone know of a HG+ steel chainring for 104 BCD? Have the oneup on order but would be interested if there’s other options. 

I have a WT 30T 104BCD SS chainring. It's pretty nice, unfortunately WT discontinued them thanks to the high cost of raw materials.

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Finkill
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2/28/2025 1:38pm

Are the Shimano Steps chainrings compatible? They do a steel one that is HG+ and it's 104 4 bolt, I can't see why they would not work, smallest size is 32t. 

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brash
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2/28/2025 6:37pm
Finkill wrote:
Are the Shimano Steps chainrings compatible? They do a steel one that is HG+ and it's 104 4 bolt, I can't see why they would not...

Are the Shimano Steps chainrings compatible? They do a steel one that is HG+ and it's 104 4 bolt, I can't see why they would not work, smallest size is 32t. 

You can put 104 4 bolt on steps, I only just recently found that out. My mate at the shop was adamant it worked, I wasn't.... he was right lol. 

 

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Finkill
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3/1/2025 12:57am

Looks like the Shimano SM-CRE80 chainring might work then. 

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AndehM
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3/1/2025 10:26am

I blame this thread - I got around to checking my X0 chain on my ebike with a Park Tool CC4 and it had >1% wear at about 2,000 miles.  Lined up next to a fresh chain, it had about 1/2 link more stretch.  It's had a pretty rough life though with higher load than you'd get from a normal bike and ridden in disgusting conditions to do trail work.  It still shifted OK mostly but was starting to have a hard time going into the lower 1/3 of cassette (especially 8).

The problem I've had with running wax based lubes like Squirt is that I find they wear off partly through a rainy, muddy, gritty ride.  That led to me applying more of it, which didn't help with duration and just led to more crusty black gunk on the cogs.  Oil based lubes (like Wolf Tooth) last way longer for me in the wet, and clean off easier afterwards.  It does seem to collect more dust in the summer though, so, tradeoffs.  So I'll probably wait a couple months for the rains to be done, strip the chain in my ultrasonic cleaner, then switch back to Squirt for the summer.  Reverse the process in the fall.

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3/1/2025 11:42am
FaahkEet wrote:
Is there any wear downside to running a laterally  worn chain? Other than dropped chains and poor shifting, would it cause worse or unexpected wear to...

Is there any wear downside to running a laterally  worn chain? Other than dropped chains and poor shifting, would it cause worse or unexpected wear to the cassette/pulley wheels?

Was hoping someone else would chime in.  Here's my guess.

If you're reducing cable tension to compensate for the flex in your chain (to get it shift to the smaller cog), then the top derailleur pulley rests further from the centerline of each cog.  Of course the difference in position is very small, or the chain will start clicking on the teeth of the next smallest cog.

I suppose having the chain less lined up coming from the derailleur to the cassette could increase the wear on the cassette teeth.  As to whether that translates into any meaningful real world difference, I've got no idea. 

Now that I've got the Abbey chain checker, I'm probably going to start retiring chains earlier.  I'll get back with you in 18 months or so, which has been the typical life of an X01 cassette on my lightweight ebike. Wink  

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3/1/2025 12:50pm
Finkill wrote:

Looks like the Shimano SM-CRE80 chainring might work then. 

says this is 11 speed though? I thought 11 and 12 had different spacing

TEAMROBOT
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3/1/2025 3:14pm
29 wrote:

says this is 11 speed though? I thought 11 and 12 had different spacing

My understanding is that chainrings are chainrings, whether they're 10, 11, or 12-speed, and even if the manufacturer doesn't recommend running an 11-speed chainring with a 12-speed chain, it's fine. Spacing only becomes a problem when you're talking about the cassette, because there is different spacing between the cogs on an 11-speed vs. 12-speed cassette. And yet I've still heard of people happily using a 12-speed chain on an 11-speed drivetrain, so who even knows.

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Whattheheel
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3/1/2025 4:38pm

You can typically go down 12 to 11, 11 to 10 but you can’t go up 9 to 10, 10 to 11, etc…

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Finkill
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3/2/2025 5:21am
29 wrote:

says this is 11 speed though? I thought 11 and 12 had different spacing

TEAMROBOT wrote:
My understanding is that chainrings are chainrings, whether they're 10, 11, or 12-speed, and even if the manufacturer doesn't recommend running an 11-speed chainring with a...

My understanding is that chainrings are chainrings, whether they're 10, 11, or 12-speed, and even if the manufacturer doesn't recommend running an 11-speed chainring with a 12-speed chain, it's fine. Spacing only becomes a problem when you're talking about the cassette, because there is different spacing between the cogs on an 11-speed vs. 12-speed cassette. And yet I've still heard of people happily using a 12-speed chain on an 11-speed drivetrain, so who even knows.

The Shimano 12 speed chains have little extensions on the inner links (dynamic chain engagement in marketing speak) so don't mesh well with a standard chainring, you need a DCE/Hyperglide+ compatible one. 

Looks like there is a 12 speed version of that chainring https://www.bikeparts.co.uk/products/shimano-steps-sm-cre80-12-b-chainring-38t-for-chainline-53-mm-without-chainguard-black called the CRE-80-12-B or something like that. 

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3/2/2025 5:50am
29 wrote:

says this is 11 speed though? I thought 11 and 12 had different spacing

TEAMROBOT wrote:
My understanding is that chainrings are chainrings, whether they're 10, 11, or 12-speed, and even if the manufacturer doesn't recommend running an 11-speed chainring with a...

My understanding is that chainrings are chainrings, whether they're 10, 11, or 12-speed, and even if the manufacturer doesn't recommend running an 11-speed chainring with a 12-speed chain, it's fine. Spacing only becomes a problem when you're talking about the cassette, because there is different spacing between the cogs on an 11-speed vs. 12-speed cassette. And yet I've still heard of people happily using a 12-speed chain on an 11-speed drivetrain, so who even knows.

Finkill wrote:
The Shimano 12 speed chains have little extensions on the inner links (dynamic chain engagement in marketing speak) so don't mesh well with a standard chainring...

The Shimano 12 speed chains have little extensions on the inner links (dynamic chain engagement in marketing speak) so don't mesh well with a standard chainring, you need a DCE/Hyperglide+ compatible one. 

Looks like there is a 12 speed version of that chainring https://www.bikeparts.co.uk/products/shimano-steps-sm-cre80-12-b-chainring-38t-for-chainline-53-mm-without-chainguard-black called the CRE-80-12-B or something like that. 

Amazing, thanks 

2
3/2/2025 3:33pm
Teknik wrote:
How do you keep your chains clean? What’s the most efficient way? Has anyone build any automated solution like a chain washing machine?I think this is...

How do you keep your chains clean? What’s the most efficient way? Has anyone build any automated solution like a chain washing machine?


I think this is inportant part of the equation.

proper wax coatings are super clean so don't need intense degreasing very often, if ever. You can rinse them in boiling water if it does get dirty or ridden hard in the rain, but otherwise just dunking it in the immersive wax is all you do. You can run 2 pots ( a "clean" and dirty one" and cycle them through to reduce contamination of the wax if you want to get proper in to it - ZFC has great guides on all this too

From new you can even use Silca's strip chips to remove the factory grease and apply the wax in one step! If its a used chain then there can be a bit of labour involved to properly degrease, rinse with alcohol and then leave to properly dry but in most cases its the only time that chain will need a full on degreasing.

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dolface
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3/4/2025 11:52am

Chiming in late but about to swap out my X0 T-Type chain after ~1,800 miles (13 months and most of two wet, sloppy NorCal winters), 0.75 wear on both the Park CC4.2 and Abbey checkers 

Bike is meat-powered, lube was Squirt in the dry and Pro Gold Extreme in the wet.

3/4/2025 6:18pm
dolface wrote:
Chiming in late but about to swap out my X0 T-Type chain after ~1,800 miles (13 months and most of two wet, sloppy NorCal winters), 0.75...

Chiming in late but about to swap out my X0 T-Type chain after ~1,800 miles (13 months and most of two wet, sloppy NorCal winters), 0.75 wear on both the Park CC4.2 and Abbey checkers 

Bike is meat-powered, lube was Squirt in the dry and Pro Gold Extreme in the wet.

What did the Abbey gauge say about lateral wear?

 

1
dolface
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3/4/2025 6:21pm
dolface wrote:
Chiming in late but about to swap out my X0 T-Type chain after ~1,800 miles (13 months and most of two wet, sloppy NorCal winters), 0.75...

Chiming in late but about to swap out my X0 T-Type chain after ~1,800 miles (13 months and most of two wet, sloppy NorCal winters), 0.75 wear on both the Park CC4.2 and Abbey checkers 

Bike is meat-powered, lube was Squirt in the dry and Pro Gold Extreme in the wet.

What did the Abbey gauge say about lateral wear?

 

Will report back when I put the new chain on (likely tomorrow)

2
3/4/2025 6:23pm
dolface wrote:
Chiming in late but about to swap out my X0 T-Type chain after ~1,800 miles (13 months and most of two wet, sloppy NorCal winters), 0.75...

Chiming in late but about to swap out my X0 T-Type chain after ~1,800 miles (13 months and most of two wet, sloppy NorCal winters), 0.75 wear on both the Park CC4.2 and Abbey checkers 

Bike is meat-powered, lube was Squirt in the dry and Pro Gold Extreme in the wet.

What did the Abbey gauge say about lateral wear?

 

dolface wrote:

Will report back when I put the new chain on (likely tomorrow)

Thanks.  While I'm asking, I'd be super interested in old chain vs new chain.  Getting ready to pick up some new chains, but haven't had a chance to measure one yet.

2
3/5/2025 11:59am

What did the Abbey gauge say about lateral wear?

 

dolface wrote:

Will report back when I put the new chain on (likely tomorrow)

Thanks.  While I'm asking, I'd be super interested in old chain vs new chain.  Getting ready to pick up some new chains, but haven't had a...

Thanks.  While I'm asking, I'd be super interested in old chain vs new chain.  Getting ready to pick up some new chains, but haven't had a chance to measure one yet.

One really interesting thing I've learned from this thread and zfc, is that it's worth buying the expensive chains, xtr or x01 as they last so much longer when taken care of properly. So that's super interesting 

4

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