couldn't a North American company come up with a similar or better system than DJI? I would think NA is more technically advanced than China but...
couldn't a North American company come up with a similar or better system than DJI? I would think NA is more technically advanced than China but maybe not in the electrical realm?
The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to...
The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to support, regardless of where it was designed or built. Ebike motors and batteries are not like other bike components - if your bike comes with a sexy sounding new shock that turns out to be unreliable, you can replace it with another brand. You can't do that with batteries or motors (yet).
This is a real concern since none of the existing motor/battery manufacturers have a perfect track record. Even if you get an ebike from a brand that has really great warranty support (like Santa Cruz), when it comes to motor/battery issues they will pass you or your dealer off to the motor's warranty/support department. If that's dodgy or slow or has no spare parts available, you could be waiting months to get issues resolved. If the motor company goes belly up, or stops making parts available, then your expensive ebike instantly turns into a collection of parts. I just recently saw a guy on the local buy/sell thread trying to unload parts from his dead 2021 Kinevo because it costs more to replace the dead motor than the complete bike would be worth over the value of the parts... and that's just 3 years old.
Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2 or 3 different patterns depending on the motor. (EU USB-C law where you at?)
As a consumer I would be worried about a company like DJI, or even smaller 3rd party motor makers not seeing sales where they want and cut off production, leaving me SOL except to the frame maker if I was to have issues.
If I was a product manager or designer in the bike world, it'd be a similar concern, but in the R&D cost side. Why sink $$$ into designing a frame for a motor that may be out of production in 2-3 years? Would likely just go Shimano, Bosch or SRAM motors at that point.
Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2...
Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2 or 3 different patterns depending on the motor. (EU USB-C law where you at?)
As a consumer I would be worried about a company like DJI, or even smaller 3rd party motor makers not seeing sales where they want and cut off production, leaving me SOL except to the frame maker if I was to have issues.
If I was a product manager or designer in the bike world, it'd be a similar concern, but in the R&D cost side. Why sink $$$ into designing a frame for a motor that may be out of production in 2-3 years? Would likely just go Shimano, Bosch or SRAM motors at that point.
I'm 100% with you on standardization but I'm not hopeful bc it's much more than mounting points. It's the entire package... spindle location on the motor for one and a whole bunch of compatibility issues from battery, to controls all the way down to wire connectors. The industry can't even agree on the best rear hub size.
Some tech pulled from Ohlins and refined. His oval shim clamp that allows the the retune is an expansion on the variable diameter shim clamp Ohlins uses. Sounds like he has given it a broader range of adjustment and ability to better control it with the worm drive screw.
The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to...
The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to support, regardless of where it was designed or built. Ebike motors and batteries are not like other bike components - if your bike comes with a sexy sounding new shock that turns out to be unreliable, you can replace it with another brand. You can't do that with batteries or motors (yet).
This is a real concern since none of the existing motor/battery manufacturers have a perfect track record. Even if you get an ebike from a brand that has really great warranty support (like Santa Cruz), when it comes to motor/battery issues they will pass you or your dealer off to the motor's warranty/support department. If that's dodgy or slow or has no spare parts available, you could be waiting months to get issues resolved. If the motor company goes belly up, or stops making parts available, then your expensive ebike instantly turns into a collection of parts. I just recently saw a guy on the local buy/sell thread trying to unload parts from his dead 2021 Kinevo because it costs more to replace the dead motor than the complete bike would be worth over the value of the parts... and that's just 3 years old.
Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2...
Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2 or 3 different patterns depending on the motor. (EU USB-C law where you at?)
As a consumer I would be worried about a company like DJI, or even smaller 3rd party motor makers not seeing sales where they want and cut off production, leaving me SOL except to the frame maker if I was to have issues.
If I was a product manager or designer in the bike world, it'd be a similar concern, but in the R&D cost side. Why sink $$$ into designing a frame for a motor that may be out of production in 2-3 years? Would likely just go Shimano, Bosch or SRAM motors at that point.
Back in the old days you could mix and match drivetrain parts to your hearts content. These days that's a thing very few people do, integration and systemisation is the name of the game.
While having a standard motor bolt pattern (that would define the spindle location too, obviously) would be great, but then you'd need to standardise the battery mounting/size and communication to motor too. And possible controls. Or something along those lines.
I'm afraid it's more likely we are going to see more and more integration (more margin for the bike brand) vs. more standardisation.
The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to...
The problem with jumping on an ebike with a new motor from a new (to MTB ) company is all the unknowns when it comes to support, regardless of where it was designed or built. Ebike motors and batteries are not like other bike components - if your bike comes with a sexy sounding new shock that turns out to be unreliable, you can replace it with another brand. You can't do that with batteries or motors (yet).
This is a real concern since none of the existing motor/battery manufacturers have a perfect track record. Even if you get an ebike from a brand that has really great warranty support (like Santa Cruz), when it comes to motor/battery issues they will pass you or your dealer off to the motor's warranty/support department. If that's dodgy or slow or has no spare parts available, you could be waiting months to get issues resolved. If the motor company goes belly up, or stops making parts available, then your expensive ebike instantly turns into a collection of parts. I just recently saw a guy on the local buy/sell thread trying to unload parts from his dead 2021 Kinevo because it costs more to replace the dead motor than the complete bike would be worth over the value of the parts... and that's just 3 years old.
Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2...
Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2 or 3 different patterns depending on the motor. (EU USB-C law where you at?)
As a consumer I would be worried about a company like DJI, or even smaller 3rd party motor makers not seeing sales where they want and cut off production, leaving me SOL except to the frame maker if I was to have issues.
If I was a product manager or designer in the bike world, it'd be a similar concern, but in the R&D cost side. Why sink $$$ into designing a frame for a motor that may be out of production in 2-3 years? Would likely just go Shimano, Bosch or SRAM motors at that point.
Back in the old days you could mix and match drivetrain parts to your hearts content. These days that's a thing very few people do, integration...
Back in the old days you could mix and match drivetrain parts to your hearts content. These days that's a thing very few people do, integration and systemisation is the name of the game.
While having a standard motor bolt pattern (that would define the spindle location too, obviously) would be great, but then you'd need to standardise the battery mounting/size and communication to motor too. And possible controls. Or something along those lines.
I'm afraid it's more likely we are going to see more and more integration (more margin for the bike brand) vs. more standardisation.
And if it continues, Shimano and Bosch will continue to be the main motor suppliers brands will work with. Sad, I would really like to try out a DJI motor. Might have to see if Forbidden will run any demos near me once they're out.
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).Back...
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).
Back to rumors the entire specialized gravity team were testing in Tahoe and Bruni’s insta post on it mentioned ‘new bike is fast’. Maybe a revised layout proto update or they’re finally on the production frame?
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.
There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).Back...
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).
Back to rumors the entire specialized gravity team were testing in Tahoe and Bruni’s insta post on it mentioned ‘new bike is fast’. Maybe a revised layout proto update or they’re finally on the production frame?
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like...
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.
There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.
Hasn't the rumour in this thread been that Specialized literally has a boxed, ready to go next gen Enduro sitting in warehouses and waiting to sell through the current one for some time?
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like...
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.
There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.
The bike in the background seems to be some kind of ebike. There's a display on the toptube. so no new enduro I guess...
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like...
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.
There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).Back...
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).
Back to rumors the entire specialized gravity team were testing in Tahoe and Bruni’s insta post on it mentioned ‘new bike is fast’. Maybe a revised layout proto update or they’re finally on the production frame?
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like...
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.
There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.
Loic has been riding a blacked out Prototype for almost 2 seasons now ?
For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support): - OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands), to go where the actator usually sits. That was before working with BikeYoke - OG collaborated with BikeYoke to integrate it into their post - they couldn't settle on terms and terminated the collaboration - OG is now back at the aftermarket approach and plans to have something ready in 6 months
FWIW, this is OG's version of the story, BikeYoke / Sacki didn't seem to be present in the MTBR thread
For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands)...
For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support): - OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands), to go where the actator usually sits. That was before working with BikeYoke - OG collaborated with BikeYoke to integrate it into their post - they couldn't settle on terms and terminated the collaboration - OG is now back at the aftermarket approach and plans to have something ready in 6 months
FWIW, this is OG's version of the story, BikeYoke / Sacki didn't seem to be present in the MTBR thread
They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to launch an aftermarket kit."
with my awesome brain fog I forgot about the black version, was just thinking about the silver lugged version they've also been using. If that is an...
with my awesome brain fog I forgot about the black version, was just thinking about the silver lugged version they've also been using.
If that is an ebike in the back, could be a kenevo, or perhaps they're going away from the stumpy design for the full power levo. Low slung shock.
I think they are still using black and silver/grey parts back and forth, depending on the prototype.
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).Back...
Regen on mid drives seems difficult and highly inefficient to implement, but for hub motors mated to a brake sensor could work (how my hybrid regens).
Back to rumors the entire specialized gravity team were testing in Tahoe and Bruni’s insta post on it mentioned ‘new bike is fast’. Maybe a revised layout proto update or they’re finally on the production frame?
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like...
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.
There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.
Hasn't the rumour in this thread been that Specialized literally has a boxed, ready to go next gen Enduro sitting in warehouses and waiting to sell...
Hasn't the rumour in this thread been that Specialized literally has a boxed, ready to go next gen Enduro sitting in warehouses and waiting to sell through the current one for some time?
Not that I’ve heard. They did that with the latest Levo SL, but last time I spoke to the dealer they didn’t know of any new Enduro.
Rumoring is a dirty business; you're welcome.
tough crowd
The rest of the Telum vids just went public on their yt.
Of all the standards that could potentially happen, I hope a standard motor mounting pattern will happen, or at least shrink the pattern down to 2 or 3 different patterns depending on the motor. (EU USB-C law where you at?)
As a consumer I would be worried about a company like DJI, or even smaller 3rd party motor makers not seeing sales where they want and cut off production, leaving me SOL except to the frame maker if I was to have issues.
If I was a product manager or designer in the bike world, it'd be a similar concern, but in the R&D cost side. Why sink $$$ into designing a frame for a motor that may be out of production in 2-3 years? Would likely just go Shimano, Bosch or SRAM motors at that point.
vorsprung's telum deep dive press release and vids here (thanks to them for uploading it!)
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/vorsprung-telum-deep-dive-and-how-custom-tune-it-minutes-using-rapid-revalve
Yeup… just as I suspected… looks like a rear shock
I see a rear probe.
Madrone Jab derailleur pre-orders open:
https://madronecycles.com/products/jab-derailleur
Some tech pulled from Ohlins and refined. His oval shim clamp that allows the the retune is an expansion on the variable diameter shim clamp Ohlins uses. Sounds like he has given it a broader range of adjustment and ability to better control it with the worm drive screw.
A 2020 NSMB article where Steve retunes a TTX18 and specifically comments on it. https://nsmb.com/articles/%C3%B6hlins-rxf-36-m2-spring-swap/
Back in the old days you could mix and match drivetrain parts to your hearts content. These days that's a thing very few people do, integration and systemisation is the name of the game.
While having a standard motor bolt pattern (that would define the spindle location too, obviously) would be great, but then you'd need to standardise the battery mounting/size and communication to motor too. And possible controls. Or something along those lines.
I'm afraid it's more likely we are going to see more and more integration (more margin for the bike brand) vs. more standardisation.
Looks like there might be some issues with the BikeYoke wireless dropper
https://www.mtbr.com/threads/bikeyoke-wireless.1233215/page-2?post_id=1…
Probably because Sacki is a whiny baby, I would loathe to develop something with him too...
And if it continues, Shimano and Bosch will continue to be the main motor suppliers brands will work with. Sad, I would really like to try out a DJI motor. Might have to see if Forbidden will run any demos near me once they're out.
Took a gander at loics post, the dh bike that you can see behind the mechanic has a different headtube, not a silver lugged one like the previous prototype bike has. My guess is production frame, as it's most likely carbon or aluminum.
There is also an enduro bike pictured in the background, would be cool if specialized updated that frame as it's about time.
Hasn't the rumour in this thread been that Specialized literally has a boxed, ready to go next gen Enduro sitting in warehouses and waiting to sell through the current one for some time?
Can someone post an image maybe?
The bike in the background seems to be some kind of ebike. There's a display on the toptube. so no new enduro I guess...
Next gen Levo or Kenevo maybe
Loic has been riding a blacked out Prototype for almost 2 seasons now ?
with my awesome brain fog I forgot about the black version, was just thinking about the silver lugged version they've also been using.
If that is an ebike in the back, could be a kenevo, or perhaps they're going away from the stumpy design for the full power levo. Low slung shock.
For those who didn't leave this page (an attitude that I support):
- OG bikeworks was developing an aftermarket kit for dropper posts (don't know which brands), to go where the actator usually sits. That was before working with BikeYoke
- OG collaborated with BikeYoke to integrate it into their post
- they couldn't settle on terms and terminated the collaboration
- OG is now back at the aftermarket approach and plans to have something ready in 6 months
FWIW, this is OG's version of the story, BikeYoke / Sacki didn't seem to be present in the MTBR thread
Oh thank you! Also that is the TDS Ranch in Grass Valley Ca. I live 10 min from it. There are some gnarly trails out there.
They also mentioned "Our aftermarket product was already in the works before our collaboration with BikeYoke began, and they were fully aware of our plans to launch an aftermarket kit."
hopefully on good terms
I think they are still using black and silver/grey parts back and forth, depending on the prototype.
also, ZEB on the kenevo /whatever ebike on the back. Would that mean anything?
(would be so weird. Jack has been working so closely with Ö for the past years, I can't see them going anywhere else)
Looks like a standard Kenevo SL.
Not that I’ve heard. They did that with the latest Levo SL, but last time I spoke to the dealer they didn’t know of any new Enduro.