Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly...
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?" More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.
Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?
They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've put thousands of miles on these and don't find they wear differently than any other cassette.
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly...
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?" More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.
Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've...
Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?
They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've put thousands of miles on these and don't find they wear differently than any other cassette.
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the miles on it. The wear life on them is extremely long.
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly...
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?" More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.
Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've...
Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?
They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've put thousands of miles on these and don't find they wear differently than any other cassette.
It was a couple years back. They didn't creak, but the ramp teeth had worn down to nubs and shift quality had deteriorated dramatically. The drivetrain was setup by a shop, so theoretically it was installed correctly. Shimano warrantied both of them then I sold the system to go bleep bloop.
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly...
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?" More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the...
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the miles on it. The wear life on them is extremely long.
Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel 41. I run the 10-45s, I don't need a 51 in Chicago. The 10t cogs wear fast and start skipping in the high hundres of miles, teeth of the 41 would start to disappear north of 1000, and the whole thing would be poor shifting mess by 12-1500 hundred. XTR chains went at the same rate.
Shimano 12s needs a gen 2, and I'm not worried about the future of DI2. My Shimano 12s journey has been rough.. chain and cassette wear, warranty shifters, warranty chainrings, a couple chains grenading at very low miles, soft XT derailleur cages.. Linkglide, GRX and everything pre-12 was always great for me, and I was definitely Shimano leaning in the great big S debate, but not married to them by any means.
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the...
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the miles on it. The wear life on them is extremely long.
Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel...
Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel 41. I run the 10-45s, I don't need a 51 in Chicago. The 10t cogs wear fast and start skipping in the high hundres of miles, teeth of the 41 would start to disappear north of 1000, and the whole thing would be poor shifting mess by 12-1500 hundred. XTR chains went at the same rate.
Shimano 12s needs a gen 2, and I'm not worried about the future of DI2. My Shimano 12s journey has been rough.. chain and cassette wear, warranty shifters, warranty chainrings, a couple chains grenading at very low miles, soft XT derailleur cages.. Linkglide, GRX and everything pre-12 was always great for me, and I was definitely Shimano leaning in the great big S debate, but not married to them by any means.
I've seen e-bikes eat Shimano 12sp drivetrains in circa 500 miles .The 10 and 12t get hammered while the top 5 sprockets are untouched. They just rode everywhere at 30rpm.
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the...
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the miles on it. The wear life on them is extremely long.
Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel...
Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel 41. I run the 10-45s, I don't need a 51 in Chicago. The 10t cogs wear fast and start skipping in the high hundres of miles, teeth of the 41 would start to disappear north of 1000, and the whole thing would be poor shifting mess by 12-1500 hundred. XTR chains went at the same rate.
Shimano 12s needs a gen 2, and I'm not worried about the future of DI2. My Shimano 12s journey has been rough.. chain and cassette wear, warranty shifters, warranty chainrings, a couple chains grenading at very low miles, soft XT derailleur cages.. Linkglide, GRX and everything pre-12 was always great for me, and I was definitely Shimano leaning in the great big S debate, but not married to them by any means.
I've seen e-bikes eat Shimano 12sp drivetrains in circa 500 miles .The 10 and 12t get hammered while the top 5 sprockets are untouched. They just...
I've seen e-bikes eat Shimano 12sp drivetrains in circa 500 miles .The 10 and 12t get hammered while the top 5 sprockets are untouched. They just rode everywhere at 30rpm.
Run the cassette/chain combo on the enduro bike for a while and wear out the easiest two gears climbing up fire roads, swap the combo onto the ebike and burn out the other bit at 30 km/hr. Perfect!
That's the Linear XL air can that's been out for a while.
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It...
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.
Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one.
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It...
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it. Edit: I think...
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.
Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one.
For that reason I assumed it was going to supersede both original air cans. Looks like it hasn't (yet?)
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It...
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it. Edit: I think...
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.
Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one.
For that reason I assumed it was going to supersede both original air cans. Looks like it hasn't (yet?)
I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with tokens it'll feel like the regular can with no tokens, so the old can still has a home on particularly linear platforms.
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it. Edit: I think...
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.
Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one.
I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with...
I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with tokens it'll feel like the regular can with no tokens, so the old can still has a home on particularly linear platforms.
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me!
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase...
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me!
That's one reason for the various air cans, and in a world where you can get a Starling with 0% progression or a Privateer with 44% progression, big brands like Rockshox and Fox need OEM options to fit a super wide range of suspension parameters. There are other benefits to more air volume though, like more mechanical leverage to overcome seal drag. In the coil vs. air battle, more volume is a pretty powerful tool to help air chase performance. That's what they did with the new Boxxer air spring: bigger volume, smaller piston size, more PSI ===> "coil like feel." The new SDLX can doesn't offer a smaller piston size, but it does offer the same piston size and more air volume, which accomplishes the same goal.
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase...
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me!
the frame designers and shock makers are always going back and forth since time immemorial - originally the shocks were too progressive, which limited air shocks to short travel until 5th element brought out a large volume can which meant long travel bikes (130mm!) could use them. Volumes got bigger and travel increased so we started adding spacers to reduce that volume while running more sag, and now we seem to have a bit of both - I still get confused by Rockshox and their naming of air springs, which take in to account the volume of the negative chamber as well as the positive chamber. Large volumes overall are generally better most of the time - you can use lower pressure for the same spring rate and get less seal friction as well as accomodating a wider range of rider weights, even in higher leverage frames
That's one reason for the various air cans, and in a world where you can get a Starling with 0% progression or a Privateer with 44%...
That's one reason for the various air cans, and in a world where you can get a Starling with 0% progression or a Privateer with 44% progression, big brands like Rockshox and Fox need OEM options to fit a super wide range of suspension parameters. There are other benefits to more air volume though, like more mechanical leverage to overcome seal drag. In the coil vs. air battle, more volume is a pretty powerful tool to help air chase performance. That's what they did with the new Boxxer air spring: bigger volume, smaller piston size, more PSI ===> "coil like feel." The new SDLX can doesn't offer a smaller piston size, but it does offer the same piston size and more air volume, which accomplishes the same goal.
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but great on a couple. Will the Linear XL only be okay on something like the Stumpy 15?
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but...
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but great on a couple. Will the Linear XL only be okay on something like the Stumpy 15?
Great question. I don't know the size of the negative air chamber in the new Linear XL can, so I can't say. I would be surprised if it's "the opposite" of the MegNeg. I would wager it features a healthy-sized negative chamber in addition to the really really big positive chamber. I don't think RS or any of the manufacturers are going to go back to small negative chambers anytime soon. But I don't know.
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but...
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but great on a couple. Will the Linear XL only be okay on something like the Stumpy 15?
Great question. I don't know the size of the negative air chamber in the new Linear XL can, so I can't say. I would be surprised...
Great question. I don't know the size of the negative air chamber in the new Linear XL can, so I can't say. I would be surprised if it's "the opposite" of the MegNeg. I would wager it features a healthy-sized negative chamber in addition to the really really big positive chamber. I don't think RS or any of the manufacturers are going to go back to small negative chambers anytime soon. But I don't know.
The standard air can for aftermarket shocks looks like the "linear" one which has a smaller negative chamber. This is the same company that shrunk fork air spring negative chambers again between B1 and C1 generation forks around 2021. Then re-increased negative volumes for 2023.....
"progressive" has a larger negative chamber (so actually a less variable spring rate but overall force characteristic will be higher/more supportive/'coil like' ie closest megneg equivalent) and linear XL increases positive and negative chamber volume which I assume has similar rate curve to the linear can but at lower pressures
So yeah I looked in to it and still find the naming suuuuuuuper confusing. THe Linear XL probably suits hyper progressive (as in rate of change, not just change in rate...) bikes like the Megatower or Enduro which used to not be very suitable for the megneg
You can make any shock "bottomless" if the graph just never reaches 100%!
They also normalised all of the springs at sag, which isn't realistic - the linear can would probably have the least sag and the progressive one the most if you plotted what a rider would actually use.
At 70% travel there is a singularity which allows your spring force to simultaneously be three different values. Some hypothesize that if you can push past 70% travel you will bridge spacetime and land in a parallel universe.
You can make any shock "bottomless" if the graph just never reaches 100%!They also normalised all of the springs at sag, which isn't realistic - the...
You can make any shock "bottomless" if the graph just never reaches 100%!
They also normalised all of the springs at sag, which isn't realistic - the linear can would probably have the least sag and the progressive one the most if you plotted what a rider would actually use.
Can you elaborate on why this approach is incorrect?
Isn’t that the way a consumer would set up their bike?
At 70% travel there is a singularity which allows your spring force to simultaneously be three different values. Some hypothesize that if you can push past...
At 70% travel there is a singularity which allows your spring force to simultaneously be three different values. Some hypothesize that if you can push past 70% travel you will bridge spacetime and land in a parallel universe.
"A low-cost, real-time tire pressure sensor made to improve the safety and performance of your bike's only two contacts with the ground. It fits securely inside of your tubeless tires and gives real-time pressure readings and alerts to your Garmin device via wireless transmissions."
Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?
They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've put thousands of miles on these and don't find they wear differently than any other cassette.
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the miles on it. The wear life on them is extremely long.
If the rivets are loose causing creaking, Shimano will warranty them. Remember, three years on XTR stuff!
It was a couple years back. They didn't creak, but the ramp teeth had worn down to nubs and shift quality had deteriorated dramatically. The drivetrain was setup by a shop, so theoretically it was installed correctly. Shimano warrantied both of them then I sold the system to go bleep bloop.
Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel 41. I run the 10-45s, I don't need a 51 in Chicago. The 10t cogs wear fast and start skipping in the high hundres of miles, teeth of the 41 would start to disappear north of 1000, and the whole thing would be poor shifting mess by 12-1500 hundred. XTR chains went at the same rate.
Shimano 12s needs a gen 2, and I'm not worried about the future of DI2. My Shimano 12s journey has been rough.. chain and cassette wear, warranty shifters, warranty chainrings, a couple chains grenading at very low miles, soft XT derailleur cages.. Linkglide, GRX and everything pre-12 was always great for me, and I was definitely Shimano leaning in the great big S debate, but not married to them by any means.
I've seen e-bikes eat Shimano 12sp drivetrains in circa 500 miles .The 10 and 12t get hammered while the top 5 sprockets are untouched. They just rode everywhere at 30rpm.
Run the cassette/chain combo on the enduro bike for a while and wear out the easiest two gears climbing up fire roads, swap the combo onto the ebike and burn out the other bit at 30 km/hr. Perfect!
This could just be a super deluxe with different air can but does look similiar to fox genie shape
That's the Linear XL air can that's been out for a while.
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.
Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one.
For that reason I assumed it was going to supersede both original air cans. Looks like it hasn't (yet?)
I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with tokens it'll feel like the regular can with no tokens, so the old can still has a home on particularly linear platforms.
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me!
That's one reason for the various air cans, and in a world where you can get a Starling with 0% progression or a Privateer with 44% progression, big brands like Rockshox and Fox need OEM options to fit a super wide range of suspension parameters. There are other benefits to more air volume though, like more mechanical leverage to overcome seal drag. In the coil vs. air battle, more volume is a pretty powerful tool to help air chase performance. That's what they did with the new Boxxer air spring: bigger volume, smaller piston size, more PSI ===> "coil like feel." The new SDLX can doesn't offer a smaller piston size, but it does offer the same piston size and more air volume, which accomplishes the same goal.
the frame designers and shock makers are always going back and forth since time immemorial - originally the shocks were too progressive, which limited air shocks to short travel until 5th element brought out a large volume can which meant long travel bikes (130mm!) could use them. Volumes got bigger and travel increased so we started adding spacers to reduce that volume while running more sag, and now we seem to have a bit of both - I still get confused by Rockshox and their naming of air springs, which take in to account the volume of the negative chamber as well as the positive chamber. Large volumes overall are generally better most of the time - you can use lower pressure for the same spring rate and get less seal friction as well as accomodating a wider range of rider weights, even in higher leverage frames
So is this Linear XL just the opposite of a MegNeg? I remeber a lot of people hating the MegNeg on a lot of bikes, but great on a couple. Will the Linear XL only be okay on something like the Stumpy 15?
Great question. I don't know the size of the negative air chamber in the new Linear XL can, so I can't say. I would be surprised if it's "the opposite" of the MegNeg. I would wager it features a healthy-sized negative chamber in addition to the really really big positive chamber. I don't think RS or any of the manufacturers are going to go back to small negative chambers anytime soon. But I don't know.
The standard air can for aftermarket shocks looks like the "linear" one which has a smaller negative chamber. This is the same company that shrunk fork air spring negative chambers again between B1 and C1 generation forks around 2021. Then re-increased negative volumes for 2023.....
"progressive" has a larger negative chamber (so actually a less variable spring rate but overall force characteristic will be higher/more supportive/'coil like' ie closest megneg equivalent) and linear XL increases positive and negative chamber volume which I assume has similar rate curve to the linear can but at lower pressures
So yeah I looked in to it and still find the naming suuuuuuuper confusing. THe Linear XL probably suits hyper progressive (as in rate of change, not just change in rate...) bikes like the Megatower or Enduro which used to not be very suitable for the megneg
Maybe this will help:
(10 points to whoever can find the error in this graph)
Lots happening at 70% travel!
And then when it hits 70% again, it goes up. But its still at 70%. Shit, this shock is literally bottomless if this graph is correct.
You can make any shock "bottomless" if the graph just never reaches 100%!
They also normalised all of the springs at sag, which isn't realistic - the linear can would probably have the least sag and the progressive one the most if you plotted what a rider would actually use.
It's bottomless, but unfortunately the rate of change in the spring rate hits infinity at 70% travel. You win some you lose some.
If my calculations are correct...
At 70% travel there is a singularity which allows your spring force to simultaneously be three different values. Some hypothesize that if you can push past 70% travel you will bridge spacetime and land in a parallel universe.
Can you elaborate on why this approach is incorrect?
Isn’t that the way a consumer would set up their bike?
And then, Craig calls you.
a fun (terrifying) look back at "innovation" 9 years ago for your halloween.
https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/13-Bikes-That-Will-Give-You-Nightmare…
got an email about this kickstarter for an in-tire pressure gauge that connects to a garmin device called Outrider. looks interesting.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/outride/outrider-a-tire-pressure-sensor-for-bikes
"A low-cost, real-time tire pressure sensor made to improve the safety and performance of your bike's only two contacts with the ground. It fits securely inside of your tubeless tires and gives real-time pressure readings and alerts to your Garmin device via wireless transmissions."