Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
Five lucky people will be selected at random to win a Vital MTB t-shirt.
Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
yeah thats an interesting comparison. and that kinda thing also occurs in the basic 'short travel trail vs long travel trail' concept. Mostly high end short travel vs lower end long travel.
but ya i think, as long as value is still a factor of some kind, the argument is like... the cheaper end of buying a Jeffsy (or Izzo) and a Tues, versus buying something like a Status 170 that can run 'both set ups'. or a better bike like maybe that Shore.
I guess your argument is weirdly also on my side of like 'you dont need these DC builds, just get a BETTER SC build'. So a SC build of a Stumpy or Madonna. Or, conversely, 'you dont need these DC enduros, just get a proper DH bike like a YT Tues or whatever'. Depending on which way you lean.
I have a feeling that Norco Shore is maybe the best version of this concept. That just rides well DC or SC. But I'm not sure how many people are actually bothering to pedal a SC shore on average trails. Even in its SC config it seems like a bike park build to most people. Or like a shuttle rig.
So yeah I wonder where that balance is, with both kinematics and value factored in. Do you just grab a Tues and Jeffsy/Izzo and deal with it. For like as low as 5k. Or do you just get an AMAZING enduro bike for ~5k, with top of the line parts and industry leading kinematics and ride it on anything.
Yeah, I agree with you on that. I never intended to pedal my Madonna, as built, its 41lbs. I have been, but thats probably more due to its got a better seater climbing position and its the new bike in the lineup so naturally I just want to roll with it. You bring up a good point, where do you draw the line... Its a fuzzy line at best.
But its not a bad place to be, 20 years ago this wouldnt even be a conversation to have, unless your were a sadist like Weir and could climb a million feet in a year on a 45lb 9 speed 36t cassette SC DH bike...
Were pretty lucky these days!
I loved my TR250!
I built my Slayer with a 200mm DH38 for the park but left the 12spd drivetrain and managed to squeeze a 240mm dropper on there. Was shocked at how well it actually still pedaled (~37lbs with coil shock, full cush core, ochain, heavy duty tires) and have been riding that 90% of the time, even in rides with decent amount of climbing (1200m vert and more). Might not be for everyone and their needs but it helps that the trails in my 'backyard' justify such a bike and it's been a blast as a primary driver.
hell yea we need a pic of that beast. that sounds like the right way to do it. also staying under 40 with all that is kinda crazy. we need a hanging weight pic for proof lol
I am also most likely going to build up a Slayer with a Dorado for next season as I can use many parts from my Altitude like the wheelset and spare shock and I really like to run a 12 speed cassette and a Dropper.
Just sucks that the frameset aint cheap here in germany and you can almost get a full Canyon Sender or Propain Rage otherwise.
Guess the Slayer should fit me better as I dont ride the most insane tracks and it is most likely already way too much of a bike for me.
I dont htink it qualifies , but I have canfield one.2, rear travel set at 190, but default travel is 200m (75mm stroke).. it rocks..single or dual crown.. and still laying around a banshee darkside my son has used.. beast of a bike, 180mm park destroyer
I've gone back and forth between owning a dedicated DH bike and long travel FR bikes over the years. I've netted out that I prefer just having a full DH bike in the quiver at all times; they just erase things in a way the shorter travel can't - especially over a multi-day bike park trip. However, when the Shore came out it seemed like it was the perfect solution for what I wanted, essentially a full DH bike with a pedal-able seat tube angle, so I picked one up and it's been awesome. I run mine with a 200mm dual crown plus a -1 angle set and a -.5 degree offset bushing to get to full DH slack and it descends double black bike park tech better than the Glory it replaced, plus I can pedal it up non-shuttle-able descents.
Same here. I have a One.2 at 190mm. With the amount of jumping I like to do in the park I'm staying away from full on DH race bikes now. These shorter travel park bikes are the way to go if you're not racing full time. They can do so much more than a race bike.
Bike check is here: https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/o1d4/2024-rocky-mountain-slayer-freedurodownduro-build
Edit: I have mulleted the bike since I posted that but haven't added any pictures with the small rear wheel yet.
I bought my dreadnought for exactly the same reason. Having not owned a downhill bike since 2017, I was curious to see if a dreadnought with a cascade link and a 190mm boxxer could achieve something similar.
The answer is a resounding "yes". Sure, there will still be instances where there's no replacement for displacement but I think you'd have to be pushing extremely hard or sending it massive to find them. I was shocked at how much difference an extra 20mm up front made over a 170mm sc fork, the thing just eggs you on to charge a bit harder.
I still have a 170mm zeb as my daily driver though as I did find the turning circle restrictive on really steep and tight stuff. But for uplift days/races it's more than I need really. A nice way of having one bike for 90% of riding that I do.
Another superior use case to the concept. What does the frame end up doing with the cascade? 170?
Bike looks awesome. One of my buddies picked up the 'trail' version I think and I'm keen to sit on it some time. Mostly cuz I'll probably never own one, or any bike at that price point lol
Thanks, I'm pretty stoked with it. The link bumps it up to around 164 in mullet I think, although cascade say forbidden cheated a little bit with how they measure rear wheel travel so I think it's more like 161 in reality. The number is kind of irrelevant as the extra progression makes more difference than the travel number imo - it's like having a 155mm bike with an extra 10mm for "I dun' fucked up" scenarios.
I bought the frame second hand and it really wasn't that bad price wise, that was before the V2 came out so there may be some deals out there.
About to replace a 180 Zeb on my Commencal meta SX (long shocked) with a 200 Boxxer. Will report how that works out… axel to crown looks roughly the same when side by side.
I have a stumpy EVO that does 90% of my riding, this will be my gnarly trails/park/once a year DH race bike that I can still pedal if needed.
forgot we put this out 4 years ago. seems like it all still applies. so bummed winter is on the way and the lifts are closed around here. i just want to ride a big bike now : )
More time to toughen up for next season 😂
Finally rode this thing… feels close enough to a DH bike, still pedalable although pretty miserable. I lowered the bars about 10mm after riding so well see how that goes next time.
41.6 lbs with tools, no water bottle… Exo+ front and DD rear, so it’ll gain another pound with proper DH tires in summer.
Full 200mm boxxer- didn’t feel terribly mid-matched to the rear(165mm), also interesting the 200 boxxer is only 5-10mm taller than a 180 zeb.
Overall pretty happy- will be perfect at the bike park and can still pedal occasionally.
This is awesome. It's funny with the axle to crown isn't it - for 20mm of stack height you lose 20mm of space for extra travel between the zeb and the boxxer. It's made me question whether I need to keep the zeb at all but it is better for less intense trails I think.
I down shafted your mum last night
Im going to start a go fund me to get dave a direct mount stem.
I threw a leg over this bike for a very short ride w Camp and the one thing that stands out is just how good the new Boxxer is relative to literally any other fork I've ever ridden. It isn't even close. The bike was way too small and I didn't even put the seat at proper height so pedaling was extra terrible but I'd put this type of bike/build on a short list for me.
I swapped out my 170mm 38 for a 190mm 40 on my Spire this summer. When sagged it works out to basically the same axle to crown. It was a big improvement over the 38, but I was never able to get the 38 setup quite right for me. It's my dedicated lift bike so I don't plan on changing back to a single crown. Only issue I had was getting the bars low enough for me. Had to go back to a 31.8 bar and longer stem to get it to where it was comforable.
I've been on this kind of bike for years though. I've always preferred shorter travel for my area of riding. My local hill (shout out to the small but mighty Camp Fortune!) has less than 700 ft vertical with tight trails that are spread out across a ridge requiring some pedaling to and from the lift in order to access everything. I've owned a lot of bikes in this category. Had two generations of the commencal mini dh, cove g-spot, original YT Capra and lusted after the Transition TR250.
Just got the new forks and a few other parts on, stoked to try this out on the weekend.
40’s have a 190mm air shaft in them
Bar height has risen by 2cm, and that’s with replacing my 20mm rise bar with a 10mm rise, and running the forks as low as I can fit before the stanchions foul the bottom of my handlebars.
Bb is probably a little higher but cascade link is arriving on Thursday so it’ll sag more, so who cares. With the cascade link it’ll be 190/190
I had a 180mm 38 on there beforehand.
Got some hope 155 cranks I’ll need to get fitted and a pademelon steering damper then it’s completely finished, but just going to get as much time on it as I can for now to get the forks set up etc.
From a few
years ago. Ive since learned a real DH bike is way better.
Climb Lord of the Squirrels one day, park laps the next.
This the 170?
Yes, with the fork lowered to 180mm.
Bumping up this thread as the launch of the new rallon brought back in my head the idea of buying one setup in dh travel but with a dropper and 12 speed groupset.
Chucking dual crowns on an enduro bike just doesn't have the same vibe. The Rallon and Spicy are more like downhill bikes you can put a shorter shock on. Vitus were working on something similar a couple years ago, but went under before they could bring it out.
Yep, definitely seems like the best and most refined version of this concept so far. As well as quite a great bike/design overall.
Part of me looks at the new Rallon and thinks this is what I WISH Unno had developed.
Dunno if any platform did it specifically yet... But I'd love to see a sort of biggest and smallest config of the Rallon. With whatever adjustments it has. Like the slackest DH config... And the steepest enduro/trail rig. Looks like it goes from 63 to 64.25 head tube.
its funny the 'chainstay adjustment' seems to be... an entire new rear tri? I need to really dive in and puzzle out this bike. Feels like a whole ass homework assignment to fully understand it.
Post a reply to: Anybody buying these enDHuro sub-200 dual crown builds? Are they valid or cheap fan service?