MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Primoz
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5/2/2024 11:06pm
Whyyyy does Cube do this? Whats the point of a horst link if you're just adding a floating brake?

Cube

Whyyyy does Cube do this? Whats the point of a horst link if you're just adding a floating brake?

Testing and/or optimising antirise.

3
gibbon
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wales GB
5/2/2024 11:56pm
RaggedEdge wrote:

Anybody know anything about the e*Thirteen Sidekick hub? Sounds like some interesting tech. 

Haven't heard anything officially, but I'm curious too. Seems like it could be similar to how a free coaster works, where a mechanism disengages once spinning...

Haven't heard anything officially, but I'm curious too. Seems like it could be similar to how a free coaster works, where a mechanism disengages once spinning to allow a built-in amount of slack, but that's just a guess. 

I was under the impression that after a while most E13 hubs have a disnengaging /disintegrating ratchet system.

29
5/3/2024 12:16am
RaggedEdge wrote:

Anybody know anything about the e*Thirteen Sidekick hub? Sounds like some interesting tech. 

Haven't heard anything officially, but I'm curious too. Seems like it could be similar to how a free coaster works, where a mechanism disengages once spinning...

Haven't heard anything officially, but I'm curious too. Seems like it could be similar to how a free coaster works, where a mechanism disengages once spinning to allow a built-in amount of slack, but that's just a guess. 

gibbon wrote:

I was under the impression that after a while most E13 hubs have a disnengaging /disintegrating ratchet system.

I never made it long enough to unlock that feature on mine, the rubber seal did quite the opposite. Saw these new ones at Sea Otter though and they seem promising.

5/3/2024 12:43am

I can’t believe the fox skinsuit is causing so much drama when the Troy Lee “baggies” look like this 

10
Verbl Kint
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5/3/2024 2:25am

That new Fox kit is a clever attempt to take advantage of potential loopholes as to how clothing rules are worded in the UCI regulations for mtb (see page 26).  My personal opinion is that it violates the original intent as to why the regulation was written but is probably compliant to the verbiage of the rule. 

 

As this is a UCI World Cup event, I expect the PCP and the UCI-appointed TD to provide their opinion on the matter as soon as this particular kit is brought up in a managers' meeting or by another team.  As this is a potentially unfair advantage to teams not on Foxhead clothing, I fully expect this topic to have already been brought up to the commissaire panel.

 

I hope someone at the event in Fort Bill can give this forum a scoop as soon as a communique or ruling is sent out.

 

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1
peecee
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5/3/2024 2:35am
Verbl Kint wrote:
That new Fox kit is a clever attempt to take advantage of potential loopholes as to how clothing rules are worded in the UCI regulations for...

That new Fox kit is a clever attempt to take advantage of potential loopholes as to how clothing rules are worded in the UCI regulations for mtb (see page 26).  My personal opinion is that it violates the original intent as to why the regulation was written but is probably compliant to the verbiage of the rule. 

 

As this is a UCI World Cup event, I expect the PCP and the UCI-appointed TD to provide their opinion on the matter as soon as this particular kit is brought up in a managers' meeting or by another team.  As this is a potentially unfair advantage to teams not on Foxhead clothing, I fully expect this topic to have already been brought up to the commissaire panel.

 

I hope someone at the event in Fort Bill can give this forum a scoop as soon as a communique or ruling is sent out.

 

there's another MTB page were the fun police make comments like this, you should go and waste your energy there instead of this one where no one cares about the new race kit seen and Fort William 

 

23
fartsack
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咸興市 KP
5/3/2024 3:17am
Verbl Kint wrote:
That new Fox kit is a clever attempt to take advantage of potential loopholes as to how clothing rules are worded in the UCI regulations for...

That new Fox kit is a clever attempt to take advantage of potential loopholes as to how clothing rules are worded in the UCI regulations for mtb (see page 26).  My personal opinion is that it violates the original intent as to why the regulation was written but is probably compliant to the verbiage of the rule. 

 

As this is a UCI World Cup event, I expect the PCP and the UCI-appointed TD to provide their opinion on the matter as soon as this particular kit is brought up in a managers' meeting or by another team.  As this is a potentially unfair advantage to teams not on Foxhead clothing, I fully expect this topic to have already been brought up to the commissaire panel.

 

I hope someone at the event in Fort Bill can give this forum a scoop as soon as a communique or ruling is sent out.

 

the usual difference between goals and tasks, when everyone focuses on task and forgets the goal.

they forbid the "tasks" so everyone could create new "tasks" to work against the targeted goal :D pretty much like any (small) buisness where everyone seem to be super concerned about the tasks/problem and forgets the solution/goal behind it. 

love it.

 

1
Primoz
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5/3/2024 3:39am
Verbl Kint wrote:
That new Fox kit is a clever attempt to take advantage of potential loopholes as to how clothing rules are worded in the UCI regulations for...

That new Fox kit is a clever attempt to take advantage of potential loopholes as to how clothing rules are worded in the UCI regulations for mtb (see page 26).  My personal opinion is that it violates the original intent as to why the regulation was written but is probably compliant to the verbiage of the rule. 

 

As this is a UCI World Cup event, I expect the PCP and the UCI-appointed TD to provide their opinion on the matter as soon as this particular kit is brought up in a managers' meeting or by another team.  As this is a potentially unfair advantage to teams not on Foxhead clothing, I fully expect this topic to have already been brought up to the commissaire panel.

 

I hope someone at the event in Fort Bill can give this forum a scoop as soon as a communique or ruling is sent out.

 

What is the actual advantage of the quasi one piece kit vs. jersey and pants? The jersey has to be tucked in anyway, so it's not like there's a huge aero advantage? 

2
Jakub_G
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SK
5/3/2024 3:47am
Verbl Kint wrote:
That new Fox kit is a clever attempt to take advantage of potential loopholes as to how clothing rules are worded in the UCI regulations for...

That new Fox kit is a clever attempt to take advantage of potential loopholes as to how clothing rules are worded in the UCI regulations for mtb (see page 26).  My personal opinion is that it violates the original intent as to why the regulation was written but is probably compliant to the verbiage of the rule. 

 

As this is a UCI World Cup event, I expect the PCP and the UCI-appointed TD to provide their opinion on the matter as soon as this particular kit is brought up in a managers' meeting or by another team.  As this is a potentially unfair advantage to teams not on Foxhead clothing, I fully expect this topic to have already been brought up to the commissaire panel.

 

I hope someone at the event in Fort Bill can give this forum a scoop as soon as a communique or ruling is sent out.

 

Primoz wrote:
What is the actual advantage of the quasi one piece kit vs. jersey and pants? The jersey has to be tucked in anyway, so it's not...

What is the actual advantage of the quasi one piece kit vs. jersey and pants? The jersey has to be tucked in anyway, so it's not like there's a huge aero advantage? 

Hm, I don't know any numbers, but if aero derailleur cages are worth the money, this seems like more likely to make a difference just by the surface area alone. Working on the speed tuck position would most def trump both by quite some margin though.

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Primoz
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5/3/2024 3:52am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2024 3:53am

Is aero derailleur cages being worth their money a proven thing? Larger pulley wheels are sold under the claim that they save power through less chain articulation (which is true, but likely very negligible...).

With all the turbulence behind the rider you could likely have a bolt sticking out the derailleur by a few cm and not notice it drag wise. 

6
5/3/2024 3:58am

I guess biggest advantage is not having a waistline, should make it more comfortable to be in the "attack" position. The moto version has an adjustable strap at the waist, not sure if the DH version does. It is also probably a little bit more comfortable than safety pinning your shirt like people often do for race runs. 

2
5/3/2024 4:39am
Primoz wrote:
Is aero derailleur cages being worth their money a proven thing? Larger pulley wheels are sold under the claim that they save power through less chain...

Is aero derailleur cages being worth their money a proven thing? Larger pulley wheels are sold under the claim that they save power through less chain articulation (which is true, but likely very negligible...).

With all the turbulence behind the rider you could likely have a bolt sticking out the derailleur by a few cm and not notice it drag wise. 

Proven? No. But there is a legitimacy to the claim. 

Because a road race is 6 hours, any insanely tiny gain of 0.01W CAN be perceived to be significant at the end of race. 

If your competitor has to expend 3500 calories and you only 3450 calories to ride the same time that will add up over a tour of even 7 days, let alone 21 days. 

In DH though, the bikes are already so draggy, the only aero to be made is the rider, and most if that is from body position anyway. 

 

6
1
5/3/2024 4:57am
Might've just figured out the name of the new schwalbe assegai resembling tire. Oops my bad. Albert Gr___? Also looks like new schwalbe branding, not sure...

Might've just figured out the name of the new schwalbe assegai resembling tire. Oops my bad. Albert Gr___? Also looks like new schwalbe branding, not sure how to feel about that

15
5/3/2024 6:30am

Apparently a Lapierre DH proto. Photo from the PB article where they go more in details on the layoutphoto

4
5/3/2024 6:44am
Whyyyy does Cube do this? Whats the point of a horst link if you're just adding a floating brake?

Cube

Whyyyy does Cube do this? Whats the point of a horst link if you're just adding a floating brake?

Primoz wrote:

Testing and/or optimising antirise.

100% The rider must have a feel while using the rear brake they are trying to get. The was a rumor that Danny Hart was looking for something specific while riding this bike.

3
nicompr
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Villes FR
5/3/2024 8:50am
Apparently a Lapierre DH proto. Photo from the PB article where they go more in details on the layout

Apparently a Lapierre DH proto. Photo from the PB article where they go more in details on the layoutphoto

Looks like the updated Spicy enduro that was supposed to be realased last autumn 

1
5/3/2024 9:10am

Valli on the new Tues with high pivot chain guide.  I wonder if they will sell that as an add on. 

7
krabo83
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AT
5/3/2024 9:49am
Valli on the new Tues with high pivot chain guide.  I wonder if they will sell that as an add on. 

Valli on the new Tues with high pivot chain guide.  I wonder if they will sell that as an add on. 

they should add it as an accessoire when buying a new tues. kinda ridiculous to launch that „new“ bike and their team riders are already using a different configuration the next day Grinning

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TEAMROBOT
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5/3/2024 9:55am
krabo83 wrote:
they should add it as an accessoire when buying a new tues. kinda ridiculous to launch that „new“ bike and their team riders are already using...

they should add it as an accessoire when buying a new tues. kinda ridiculous to launch that „new“ bike and their team riders are already using a different configuration the next day Grinning

I think it's a workaround for the relatively high levels of anti-squat on the new model. I was surprised to read the press release and how high the AS is on the new bike, but they also open their copy by talking about how their goal wasn't to make the fastest race bike, but something more versatile. I thought that was odd, but maybe YT made a conscious choice to subordinate their team riders desires for a more pedal-able, "poppy" bike for general population bike park use. YT riders have been using Ochain for a long time, and this idler looks like an attempt to solve the same problem.

15
krabo83
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5/3/2024 10:09am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2024 8:58pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
I think it's a workaround for the relatively high levels of anti-squat on the new model. I was surprised to read the press release and how...

I think it's a workaround for the relatively high levels of anti-squat on the new model. I was surprised to read the press release and how high the AS is on the new bike, but they also open their copy by talking about how their goal wasn't to make the fastest race bike, but something more versatile. I thought that was odd, but maybe YT made a conscious choice to subordinate their team riders desires for a more pedal-able, "poppy" bike for general population bike park use. YT riders have been using Ochain for a long time, and this idler looks like an attempt to solve the same problem.

could be, but kinda odd to make a „not so racey“ DH-race bike… to me the new tues is a total letdown. first the diaper to suggest something new and different is coming but the end result is basically a mullet version of the old bike with bumpstops added to the frame. geo is mostly the same except flipchip and on the conservative side.

look what others are doing like canyon, pivot, norco, even the new V10 is more different.

5
TEAMROBOT
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5/3/2024 10:25am
Does it looks like like oval chainstay is on Amaury’s frame compared to rectangle? Also an axle mount to chainstay option vs stock is mounted to...

Does it looks like like oval chainstay is on Amaury’s frame compared to rectangle? Also an axle mount to chainstay option vs stock is mounted to seatstay.

Here's another thought on Amaury's steel oval-shaped chainstay. The obvious conclusion is that they're chasing a particular amount of flex that they couldn't get out of aluminum, but here's another idea: What if they already had the level of flex they wanted out of the old bike, but they were breaking aluminum chainstays left and right? It makes sense that the chainstay would be the weak point in a flexy rear end, because it's the direct line from the bottom bracket (aka where most of the rider's mass is transmitted to the rest of the chassis) to the rear axle (the primary load-bearing wheel in violent turns). Steel has a much, much higher fatigue life cycle than aluminum, and would allow the chainstay to flex and flex all day long without breaking, like a leaf spring or torsion bar. Obviously the steel one still has welds, but I'd wager a welded steel leaf spring has a much higher fatigue life cycle than a welded aluminum leaf spring.

35
Dave_Camp
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5/3/2024 10:40am

^agree... and they could have welded that thing in the breakroom at Commencal HQ.

Not sure if they have in-house Aluminum fab capabilities.

 

11
5/3/2024 12:27pm

This thread is great! Been following since page 100ish and so glad it’s reached 600! Great work, your collected knowledge has given me the edge several times, keep it up!

8
5/3/2024 12:59pm
Does it looks like like oval chainstay is on Amaury’s frame compared to rectangle? Also an axle mount to chainstay option vs stock is mounted to...

Does it looks like like oval chainstay is on Amaury’s frame compared to rectangle? Also an axle mount to chainstay option vs stock is mounted to seatstay.

TEAMROBOT wrote:
Here's another thought on Amaury's steel oval-shaped chainstay. The obvious conclusion is that they're chasing a particular amount of flex that they couldn't get out of...

Here's another thought on Amaury's steel oval-shaped chainstay. The obvious conclusion is that they're chasing a particular amount of flex that they couldn't get out of aluminum, but here's another idea: What if they already had the level of flex they wanted out of the old bike, but they were breaking aluminum chainstays left and right? It makes sense that the chainstay would be the weak point in a flexy rear end, because it's the direct line from the bottom bracket (aka where most of the rider's mass is transmitted to the rest of the chassis) to the rear axle (the primary load-bearing wheel in violent turns). Steel has a much, much higher fatigue life cycle than aluminum, and would allow the chainstay to flex and flex all day long without breaking, like a leaf spring or torsion bar. Obviously the steel one still has welds, but I'd wager a welded steel leaf spring has a much higher fatigue life cycle than a welded aluminum leaf spring.

I would agree, except for the fact that the frames are replaced so regularly anyway because of fatigue and cracking everywhere. This isn't a dig at commencal but I'd imagine each rider would go through 4+ frames during a season. I know teams that have used 6+ and Neko admitted to cracking 12 frames in a season. 

Now, not all the failures are going to happen on the chainstays, in fact most won't. So great theory, but it doesn't really make sense as they'll swap the whole rest of the bike regularly anyway. 

3
5/3/2024 1:20pm
Might've just figured out the name of the new schwalbe assegai resembling tire. Oops my bad. Albert Gr___? Also looks like new schwalbe branding, not sure...

Might've just figured out the name of the new schwalbe assegai resembling tire. Oops my bad. Albert Gr___? Also looks like new schwalbe branding, not sure how to feel about that

JerseyMojo wrote:

Schwalbe bingo? I'd bet Albert Grindstein...

10
TEAMROBOT
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5/3/2024 1:22pm
I would agree, except for the fact that the frames are replaced so regularly anyway because of fatigue and cracking everywhere. This isn't a dig at...

I would agree, except for the fact that the frames are replaced so regularly anyway because of fatigue and cracking everywhere. This isn't a dig at commencal but I'd imagine each rider would go through 4+ frames during a season. I know teams that have used 6+ and Neko admitted to cracking 12 frames in a season. 

Now, not all the failures are going to happen on the chainstays, in fact most won't. So great theory, but it doesn't really make sense as they'll swap the whole rest of the bike regularly anyway. 

What I'm suggesting is: what if a disproportionate, predictable, and inconvenient amount of failures are happening at the chainstay? For instance, imagine a rider going through 4 front triangles in a whole season but replacing 4 chainstays in a single weekend. I'm not suggesting that all those failures would be big, catastrophic, run-ending failures, but if there are cracks consistently forming at the welds over and over again throughout a weekend and you have to be swapping chainstays constantly, that's a major PITA for the riders and mechanics. And what if there was a simple way to fix that by switching materials? Carbon would also be good for flex/durability, but would go against the Commencal "all metal, all the time" ethos.

6
Primoz
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5/3/2024 1:50pm

How long before Commencal throws away that ethos in pursuit of ultimate performance? They seem to be investing into the development of the platform (frame) a lot, one of the top 3 on the circuit?

6
5/3/2024 2:08pm
I would agree, except for the fact that the frames are replaced so regularly anyway because of fatigue and cracking everywhere. This isn't a dig at...

I would agree, except for the fact that the frames are replaced so regularly anyway because of fatigue and cracking everywhere. This isn't a dig at commencal but I'd imagine each rider would go through 4+ frames during a season. I know teams that have used 6+ and Neko admitted to cracking 12 frames in a season. 

Now, not all the failures are going to happen on the chainstays, in fact most won't. So great theory, but it doesn't really make sense as they'll swap the whole rest of the bike regularly anyway. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
What I'm suggesting is: what if a disproportionate, predictable, and inconvenient amount of failures are happening at the chainstay? For instance, imagine a rider going through 4...

What I'm suggesting is: what if a disproportionate, predictable, and inconvenient amount of failures are happening at the chainstay? For instance, imagine a rider going through 4 front triangles in a whole season but replacing 4 chainstays in a single weekend. I'm not suggesting that all those failures would be big, catastrophic, run-ending failures, but if there are cracks consistently forming at the welds over and over again throughout a weekend and you have to be swapping chainstays constantly, that's a major PITA for the riders and mechanics. And what if there was a simple way to fix that by switching materials? Carbon would also be good for flex/durability, but would go against the Commencal "all metal, all the time" ethos.

Sorry I misunderstood before. That's a very valid theory. 

I reckon it's still flex based, as they were testing pre steel stays with the adjustable seat stay bridge on the frame. 

Someone posted a photo of the pivot moved to the seat stay a couple pages back too, that would totally change the entire suspension package. 

The steel/alu/carbon flex characteristics are certainly the next frontier of MTB frames, gone are the days of stiffer is better. 

6
5/3/2024 2:14pm

Schwalbe bingo? I'd bet Albert Grindstein...

Difficult to say - they’d blanked the model out…

2
5/3/2024 2:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2024 2:59pm
Might've just figured out the name of the new schwalbe assegai resembling tire. Oops my bad. Albert Gr___? Also looks like new schwalbe branding, not sure...

Might've just figured out the name of the new schwalbe assegai resembling tire. Oops my bad. Albert Gr___? Also looks like new schwalbe branding, not sure how to feel about that

JerseyMojo wrote:

Schwalbe bingo? I'd bet Albert Grindstein...

Maybe Albert Gripstein

14
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