MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Uncle Cliffy
Posts
375
Joined
3/11/2010
Location
Medford, OR US
1/7/2024 2:04pm
brash wrote:
Current VLT’s are all 29 sharing the front triangle across sight and optic is likely. They do this with the 3 VLT models and just change...

Current VLT’s are all 29

sharing the front triangle across sight and optic is likely. They do this with the 3 VLT models and just change the fork height and rocker/clevis. It’s a clever way to make 3 bikes essentially from one. 

I missed out on the Range in my size. Sold out.
 

New Range and Sight are going Bosch and HP. Mullet only. 

1
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
1/7/2024 4:34pm

Pretty sure the Sight and Optic will have mullet capabilities. IIRC, the VLT Range and Sight are mullet only…

Onawalk wrote:
Sweet baby Jesus! As long as its not Druid money, and weight.....(that Druid is a bit on the portly) My dreams of re-using my fugitive rear...

Sweet baby Jesus!

As long as its not Druid money, and weight.....(that Druid is a bit on the portly)

My dreams of re-using my fugitive rear wheel might be out the window...Damnit it looks good to me.

Man we must have a different relationship with what's considered "portly" haha. As for price. I don't wanna let you down or anything...but maybe just wait...

Man we must have a different relationship with what's considered "portly" haha.

As for price. I don't wanna let you down or anything...but maybe just wait till end of season to get one at discount, also known as "reasonable"

As an example, My Spire weighs in at 34ish lbs, similar build on a V2 druid is 38ish lbs (which is the same weight as my V1 alu Sentinel)

Both carbon, both running Zebs, and air shocks, both running proper tires and CushCore.

For a 130 bike, I'd call it portly.  But it appears very capable, and like an absolute blast to ride.

So If an Optic can come in at 34ish lbs, with a similar build, I'd be stoked.

6
Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
1/7/2024 4:55pm
With the teases of the HP Optic, I have a question for those of you who have High Pivot experience.  I'm HP curious, but my local...

With the teases of the HP Optic, I have a question for those of you who have High Pivot experience.  I'm HP curious, but my local trails which I ride 90% of the time, aren't the most technical.  I mostly ride my 120mm single-speed hardtail or my Epic Evo, but I usually take 3-4 trips a year to "real mountains", usually Kingdom trails, Pisgah, Sedona etc.  Is it pointless to ride a HP on mellower trails?  Do you lose some of the benefits of a HP when there is less travel? 

 

Sent you a super long message on my thoughts about HP trail bikes

1
jsray
Posts
216
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
1/7/2024 7:33pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2024 7:35pm

Bikes are not just their suspension layout. 
 

They are a sum of all their parts. 
 

I believe that the new optic and sight are going to be really good bikes. 

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2
DServy
Posts
233
Joined
5/28/2015
Location
Jackson, WY US
1/7/2024 8:04pm
Any bike can be made to feel poppy, my dreadnought will if I crank the rebound. They really only feel different in chunky terrain, I’d say...

Any bike can be made to feel poppy, my dreadnought will if I crank the rebound. They really only feel different in chunky terrain, I’d say get a Dreadnought on sale now, norcos don’t seem to have the best reputation as far as reliability.

I saw the dreadnoughts on sale, but that's too much bike for what I'm riding.  I'm getting ready to sell my 2021 Enduro frame because it's...

I saw the dreadnoughts on sale, but that's too much bike for what I'm riding.  I'm getting ready to sell my 2021 Enduro frame because it's too much bike, I love it on big mountain stuff, it was a blast in Pisgah and Kingdom trails but despite how good it pedals, 170mm is only fun for about 3 minutes out of every hour of riding on my local trails. 

I'm specifically curious about the benefits and ride characteristics of High Pivot on a more "trail" orientated bike i.e. 120-130ish mm of travel, meant to be pedaled 20+ miles.  I'm aware there are plenty of non-HP bikes that fit exactly what I'm looking for: Smuggler, Stumpjumper, Fuel Ex, but while I'm constantly searching for my next trail bike, I'm simultaneously intrigued by High Pivot bikes.  

It really doesn’t ride like a big bike though

Dude, are you kidding me? The dreadnought rides like a freaking tractor trailer. It's a damn long bike that only gets longer.  It knows one thing and its plow. It's the least sprightly bike I've ever ridden.  

16
mcfadden999
Posts
53
Joined
12/29/2023
Location
Albuquerque, NM US
1/7/2024 8:10pm
I saw the dreadnoughts on sale, but that's too much bike for what I'm riding.  I'm getting ready to sell my 2021 Enduro frame because it's...

I saw the dreadnoughts on sale, but that's too much bike for what I'm riding.  I'm getting ready to sell my 2021 Enduro frame because it's too much bike, I love it on big mountain stuff, it was a blast in Pisgah and Kingdom trails but despite how good it pedals, 170mm is only fun for about 3 minutes out of every hour of riding on my local trails. 

I'm specifically curious about the benefits and ride characteristics of High Pivot on a more "trail" orientated bike i.e. 120-130ish mm of travel, meant to be pedaled 20+ miles.  I'm aware there are plenty of non-HP bikes that fit exactly what I'm looking for: Smuggler, Stumpjumper, Fuel Ex, but while I'm constantly searching for my next trail bike, I'm simultaneously intrigued by High Pivot bikes.  

It really doesn’t ride like a big bike though

DServy wrote:
Dude, are you kidding me? The dreadnought rides like a freaking tractor trailer. It's a damn long bike that only gets longer.  It knows one thing...

Dude, are you kidding me? The dreadnought rides like a freaking tractor trailer. It's a damn long bike that only gets longer.  It knows one thing and its plow. It's the least sprightly bike I've ever ridden.  

Not kidding, it’s been great on janky awkward flattish trails but I’ve also spent a lot of time on downhill bikes so I’m used to barges

23
1/7/2024 8:11pm
With the teases of the HP Optic, I have a question for those of you who have High Pivot experience.  I'm HP curious, but my local...

With the teases of the HP Optic, I have a question for those of you who have High Pivot experience.  I'm HP curious, but my local trails which I ride 90% of the time, aren't the most technical.  I mostly ride my 120mm single-speed hardtail or my Epic Evo, but I usually take 3-4 trips a year to "real mountains", usually Kingdom trails, Pisgah, Sedona etc.  Is it pointless to ride a HP on mellower trails?  Do you lose some of the benefits of a HP when there is less travel? 

 

Any bike can be made to feel poppy, my dreadnought will if I crank the rebound. They really only feel different in chunky terrain, I’d say...

Any bike can be made to feel poppy, my dreadnought will if I crank the rebound. They really only feel different in chunky terrain, I’d say get a Dreadnought on sale now, norcos don’t seem to have the best reputation as far as reliability.

I saw the dreadnoughts on sale, but that's too much bike for what I'm riding.  I'm getting ready to sell my 2021 Enduro frame because it's...

I saw the dreadnoughts on sale, but that's too much bike for what I'm riding.  I'm getting ready to sell my 2021 Enduro frame because it's too much bike, I love it on big mountain stuff, it was a blast in Pisgah and Kingdom trails but despite how good it pedals, 170mm is only fun for about 3 minutes out of every hour of riding on my local trails. 

I'm specifically curious about the benefits and ride characteristics of High Pivot on a more "trail" orientated bike i.e. 120-130ish mm of travel, meant to be pedaled 20+ miles.  I'm aware there are plenty of non-HP bikes that fit exactly what I'm looking for: Smuggler, Stumpjumper, Fuel Ex, but while I'm constantly searching for my next trail bike, I'm simultaneously intrigued by High Pivot bikes.  

Kind of a tech rumour and also another option to consider for a trail oriented HP bike. Kavenz is releasing a VHP12 and VHP14 this year. IMG 7308.jpeg?VersionId=i.QgkXKVRR8ZFnaylbfv3yh5LQ4X5xS

8
1/8/2024 12:54am
Any bike can be made to feel poppy, my dreadnought will if I crank the rebound. They really only feel different in chunky terrain, I’d say...

Any bike can be made to feel poppy, my dreadnought will if I crank the rebound. They really only feel different in chunky terrain, I’d say get a Dreadnought on sale now, norcos don’t seem to have the best reputation as far as reliability.

I saw the dreadnoughts on sale, but that's too much bike for what I'm riding.  I'm getting ready to sell my 2021 Enduro frame because it's...

I saw the dreadnoughts on sale, but that's too much bike for what I'm riding.  I'm getting ready to sell my 2021 Enduro frame because it's too much bike, I love it on big mountain stuff, it was a blast in Pisgah and Kingdom trails but despite how good it pedals, 170mm is only fun for about 3 minutes out of every hour of riding on my local trails. 

I'm specifically curious about the benefits and ride characteristics of High Pivot on a more "trail" orientated bike i.e. 120-130ish mm of travel, meant to be pedaled 20+ miles.  I'm aware there are plenty of non-HP bikes that fit exactly what I'm looking for: Smuggler, Stumpjumper, Fuel Ex, but while I'm constantly searching for my next trail bike, I'm simultaneously intrigued by High Pivot bikes.  

Kapolczer wrote:
Kind of a tech rumour and also another option to consider for a trail oriented HP bike. Kavenz is releasing a VHP12 and VHP14 this year. 

Kind of a tech rumour and also another option to consider for a trail oriented HP bike. Kavenz is releasing a VHP12 and VHP14 this year. IMG 7308.jpeg?VersionId=i.QgkXKVRR8ZFnaylbfv3yh5LQ4X5xS

The 12 is considered XC now, as for the 14 - not sure why since there’s the 15. Kavenz is missing a 20-option right now, with an angleset to make it a proper dh-rig! Smile

1/8/2024 5:46am Edited Date/Time 1/8/2024 5:47am

Official word from Orange regarding the process they are currently going through:

To Whom It May Concern
 
In response to current speculation regarding the position of Orange Bikes and the recently filed Notice of Intention to appoint Administrators:
 
Orange Bikes and its associated companies are currently working with Specialist Business Rescue Advisory firm J9 Advisory, with a view to restructuring the businesses in order to provide a viable platform to service our customers in the best way possible, safeguarding jobs and ensuring the continuation and strength of the Orange Bikes business moving forwards.
 
Further details will be released as soon as possible.

8
jsray
Posts
216
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
1/8/2024 6:59am

From Jacks youchoob. Not sure what YT would be hiding other than a rear shock. Still, something to talk about on a Monday.

IMG 1578.jpeg?VersionId=U LVb8dtMds6oVXHKlou.nyLL

6
ERGue
Posts
61
Joined
1/24/2014
Location
Sedro Woolley, WA US
1/8/2024 7:22am
Onawalk wrote:
As an example, My Spire weighs in at 34ish lbs, similar build on a V2 druid is 38ish lbs (which is the same weight as my...

As an example, My Spire weighs in at 34ish lbs, similar build on a V2 druid is 38ish lbs (which is the same weight as my V1 alu Sentinel)

Both carbon, both running Zebs, and air shocks, both running proper tires and CushCore.

For a 130 bike, I'd call it portly.  But it appears very capable, and like an absolute blast to ride.

So If an Optic can come in at 34ish lbs, with a similar build, I'd be stoked.

So I guess the pitch with a bike like the Druid is that the benefits of a HP axle path outweigh the cons of more; weight, drivetrain drag, and complexity. Seems questionable in the less gravity orientated platforms, but I still would love to try one and find out! 

1
Domo-Kun
Posts
50
Joined
9/3/2015
Location
Osaka JP
1/8/2024 7:44am

Companies have lost the plot with this bike covering trend so ridiculous 😂 

9
1
veefour
Posts
851
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
Cinderford GB
1/8/2024 7:46am
Domo-Kun wrote:

Companies have lost the plot with this bike covering trend so ridiculous 😂 

I dunno, as demonstrated here, it gets people talking about their product if nothing else.

17
jsray
Posts
216
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
1/8/2024 7:53am
Domo-Kun wrote:

Companies have lost the plot with this bike covering trend so ridiculous 😂 

On one hand, (as an enthusiast) ya it’s a little silly.

On the other hand, there are pages of us absolutely dorking out over Loic Brunis bike.

The amount of speculation, debates, and jokes provided endless entertainment. 

8
stoic_machine
Posts
194
Joined
12/27/2018
Location
Dildo, Newfoundland CA
1/8/2024 8:51am
Onawalk wrote:
As an example, My Spire weighs in at 34ish lbs, similar build on a V2 druid is 38ish lbs (which is the same weight as my...

As an example, My Spire weighs in at 34ish lbs, similar build on a V2 druid is 38ish lbs (which is the same weight as my V1 alu Sentinel)

Both carbon, both running Zebs, and air shocks, both running proper tires and CushCore.

For a 130 bike, I'd call it portly.  But it appears very capable, and like an absolute blast to ride.

So If an Optic can come in at 34ish lbs, with a similar build, I'd be stoked.

ERGue wrote:
So I guess the pitch with a bike like the Druid is that the benefits of a HP axle path outweigh the cons of more; weight...

So I guess the pitch with a bike like the Druid is that the benefits of a HP axle path outweigh the cons of more; weight, drivetrain drag, and complexity. Seems questionable in the less gravity orientated platforms, but I still would love to try one and find out! 

Be careful. You might really really like it. Wink

6
mtbthe603
Posts
8
Joined
3/21/2023
Location
Bellingham, WA US
1/8/2024 9:32am

Possibly connecting too many dots here but I wonder if knowing the Norco HP Optic is dropping soon is what prompted Forbidden to discount the Druid V2 (from $7,199 USD down to $5,399 USD for GX Transmission build) to make it harder for Norco to pull away sales from the high pivot trail bike crowd: https://us.forbiddenbike.com/collections/bikes/products/druid-gx-fx

1
1/8/2024 9:32am
With the teases of the HP Optic, I have a question for those of you who have High Pivot experience.  I'm HP curious, but my local...

With the teases of the HP Optic, I have a question for those of you who have High Pivot experience.  I'm HP curious, but my local trails which I ride 90% of the time, aren't the most technical.  I mostly ride my 120mm single-speed hardtail or my Epic Evo, but I usually take 3-4 trips a year to "real mountains", usually Kingdom trails, Pisgah, Sedona etc.  Is it pointless to ride a HP on mellower trails?  Do you lose some of the benefits of a HP when there is less travel? 

 

I own two mid-high pivot bikes currently, a Norco Shore setup as a DH bike and a Rocky Mountain Instinct/Altitude Powerplay as my ebike.  My am/enduro meat bike is a non-high-pivot Rocky Mountain Altitude. 

The main benefit of a high/mid-high pivot in my opinion is that the rear end gets hung up less in rock gardens. The downsides are axle path growth related handling changes and idler drag (the latter hasn't been an issue for me, although that's based on the Shore vs my previous DH bikes, a trail bike might be a different story).  That's really it, everything else is dependent on geometry, kinematics etc.  You can have kinematics and a shock tune that make the rear end poppy or plow with both high pivots and non-high pivots.  The axle path growth related handling changes can be significant if you're sensitive to them.  There is no way I'd want any more axle path growth than I have on my mid-high pivot bikes, YMMV. 

What I like about the mid-high pivot on my ebike when setup in short travel mode (140mm), is that you get the support/poppy feeling of a short travel bike but it keeps it's speed much better in the rough stuff.

2
jsray
Posts
216
Joined
5/20/2017
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
1/8/2024 9:56am
Onawalk wrote:
As an example, My Spire weighs in at 34ish lbs, similar build on a V2 druid is 38ish lbs (which is the same weight as my...

As an example, My Spire weighs in at 34ish lbs, similar build on a V2 druid is 38ish lbs (which is the same weight as my V1 alu Sentinel)

Both carbon, both running Zebs, and air shocks, both running proper tires and CushCore.

For a 130 bike, I'd call it portly.  But it appears very capable, and like an absolute blast to ride.

So If an Optic can come in at 34ish lbs, with a similar build, I'd be stoked.

ERGue wrote:
So I guess the pitch with a bike like the Druid is that the benefits of a HP axle path outweigh the cons of more; weight...

So I guess the pitch with a bike like the Druid is that the benefits of a HP axle path outweigh the cons of more; weight, drivetrain drag, and complexity. Seems questionable in the less gravity orientated platforms, but I still would love to try one and find out! 

Be careful. You might really really like it. 

Be careful. You might really really like it. Wink

My Druid v2 weighs about 37lbs. Lyrik, SD air, exo+ front, DD rear w/cc. Hope pro 5. DT swiss 481 and 561. If I was in better shape I wouldn’t complain at all about the climbing. It’s absolutely a “thicc” trail bike, but it’s a great bike. 

HP trail bikes are good. They’re not for everyone. If that optic comes in under 34lbs, it’s gonna be killer. 

2
metadave
Posts
1244
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
1/8/2024 10:34am

I haven't had a short travel HP bike out yet, but the couple of rides I did on the new Slash when trek offered a demo involved about 900m of climbing over two days and I never noticed much loss due to the high pivot compared to my Slayer. Our climb trail here is 420m from the base of the trail and 4.2km and it was pretty smooth sailing. It didn't keep up to my friend on the last gen slash but I think that had to do more with the motor than the drivetrain. I could see a short travel high pivot being pretty sporty when needed. 

1
JCL
Posts
65
Joined
9/14/2010
Location
CA
1/8/2024 11:46am
ERGue wrote:
So I guess the pitch with a bike like the Druid is that the benefits of a HP axle path outweigh the cons of more; weight...

So I guess the pitch with a bike like the Druid is that the benefits of a HP axle path outweigh the cons of more; weight, drivetrain drag, and complexity. Seems questionable in the less gravity orientated platforms, but I still would love to try one and find out! 

Be careful. You might really really like it. 

Be careful. You might really really like it. Wink

jsray wrote:
My Druid v2 weighs about 37lbs. Lyrik, SD air, exo+ front, DD rear w/cc. Hope pro 5. DT swiss 481 and 561. If I was in...

My Druid v2 weighs about 37lbs. Lyrik, SD air, exo+ front, DD rear w/cc. Hope pro 5. DT swiss 481 and 561. If I was in better shape I wouldn’t complain at all about the climbing. It’s absolutely a “thicc” trail bike, but it’s a great bike. 

HP trail bikes are good. They’re not for everyone. If that optic comes in under 34lbs, it’s gonna be killer. 

The suspension 'feel' of the inverted 4-Bar Druid V2 feels different from the single pivots IMO. More independent etc. 

Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
1/8/2024 1:32pm
ERGue wrote:
So I guess the pitch with a bike like the Druid is that the benefits of a HP axle path outweigh the cons of more; weight...

So I guess the pitch with a bike like the Druid is that the benefits of a HP axle path outweigh the cons of more; weight, drivetrain drag, and complexity. Seems questionable in the less gravity orientated platforms, but I still would love to try one and find out! 

Be careful. You might really really like it. 

Be careful. You might really really like it. Wink

jsray wrote:
My Druid v2 weighs about 37lbs. Lyrik, SD air, exo+ front, DD rear w/cc. Hope pro 5. DT swiss 481 and 561. If I was in...

My Druid v2 weighs about 37lbs. Lyrik, SD air, exo+ front, DD rear w/cc. Hope pro 5. DT swiss 481 and 561. If I was in better shape I wouldn’t complain at all about the climbing. It’s absolutely a “thicc” trail bike, but it’s a great bike. 

HP trail bikes are good. They’re not for everyone. If that optic comes in under 34lbs, it’s gonna be killer. 

Yeah, So a Druid V2 with CushCore, Zeb, etc is an easy 38lbs, which is pretty friggin heavy for a 130 "trail bike"  Hell its as heavy as a range, which was called heavy from the time it came out....and its a 170 bike...So that Druid V2 frame is Portly, with a capital P

3
29
Posts
231
Joined
3/9/2020
Location
AT
1/8/2024 1:36pm

I am sorry to interrupt the high pivot discussion but does anyone know what in the holy hell this is

 

 

 

3
1
dolface
Posts
1663
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
1/8/2024 1:52pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2024 1:53pm
29 wrote:
I am sorry to interrupt the high pivot discussion but does anyone know what in the holy hell this is      

I am sorry to interrupt the high pivot discussion but does anyone know what in the holy hell this is

 

 

 

Any questions? (I have so many...)

Screenshot 2024-01-08 at 13.51.51

1
matmattmatthew
Posts
359
Joined
6/14/2014
Location
Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
1/8/2024 2:23pm

I have so many questions:

"Holistic Pivot system"

Zip ties holding the chainstay protectors

Do I need a socket wrench to remove the shock? 

Are those grease fittings?  

Is that a 26" rear wheel? 

3
veefour
Posts
851
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
Cinderford GB
1/8/2024 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2024 3:31pm

My question is were they on drugs when they conceived this idea?

3
ebruner
Posts
343
Joined
3/29/2018
Location
Tustin, CA US
1/8/2024 4:14pm

The snake is eating it's own tail with that one, both figuratively and literally.  The rear center is a part of the front center and vice-versa.  That has to be the least straight top tube since the penny farthing.  Good god, that is the ugliest bike I've seen in recent memory... one of the few that make that tantrum cycles thing look appealing.  

3
matmattmatthew
Posts
359
Joined
6/14/2014
Location
Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
1/8/2024 6:18pm Edited Date/Time 1/8/2024 6:19pm
ebruner wrote:
The snake is eating it's own tail with that one, both figuratively and literally.  The rear center is a part of the front center and vice-versa. ...

The snake is eating it's own tail with that one, both figuratively and literally.  The rear center is a part of the front center and vice-versa.  That has to be the least straight top tube since the penny farthing.  Good god, that is the ugliest bike I've seen in recent memory... one of the few that make that tantrum cycles thing look appealing.  

You must not remember the Redalp

full Redalp DH Team Bike small.jpg?VersionId=BNcy1DNk3J

7
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