I was talking to the local shop owner the other day, whose son races pro. They started running Conti tires this year, and he said that...
I was talking to the local shop owner the other day, whose son races pro. They started running Conti tires this year, and he said that while they love the grip and support, the first race they went to, the kid broke 3 rims. They went to running inserts rear after that. And related to all this, he said the new Maxxis DH casing is designed to be more like the Conti DH casing, with a supple extra full puncture resist layer from bead to bead. No idea how accurate that is, but putting 2+2 together, maybe Maxxis' new casing trying to be more supple/less stiff coupled with Greg not liking inserts = more wheel failures?
Vergier is either running blacked out Maxxis or sometime sponsor correct Pirelli. But Vali and Ryan Pinkerton are running Conti too and doesn't seem to slow / hold them back.
Is it just me or does the shaft on that DHX2 look larger diameter than standard? Could be perspective but I wouldn't be surprised if they had chosen to go in a similar direction to EXT due to yoke and trunnion mount issues
Is it just me or does the shaft on that DHX2 look larger diameter than standard? Could be perspective but I wouldn't be surprised if they...
Is it just me or does the shaft on that DHX2 look larger diameter than standard? Could be perspective but I wouldn't be surprised if they had chosen to go in a similar direction to EXT due to yoke and trunnion mount issues
Looks like they are using a DHX chassis which has the 1/2" shaft.
Can anyone shed light on why Greg stopped using Lyle as a Mechanic as it doesn’t of seemed to have stopped him getting flats and to...
Can anyone shed light on why Greg stopped using Lyle as a Mechanic as it doesn’t of seemed to have stopped him getting flats and to be honest I’m pretty sure the Syndicate team have the most flat tires out of any team this season ?
I know Maxxis will prob get blamed but it other teams use the same tires without any issues then it’s the wheels ?
Getting flats has a lot to do with the rim structure and lip profile. It maybe that an AL rim deflects and deforms more before pinching...
Getting flats has a lot to do with the rim structure and lip profile. It maybe that an AL rim deflects and deforms more before pinching the tire then a carbon. I am assuming Santa Cruz is pretty pigeoned holed into running reserve rims where other teams may be able to shop around for a rim sponsor a bit more.
That being said, Richie was on Maxxis / DT and flatted, same with Neko.
Lots of teams on Maxxis & DT not getting flats.
Just like Vergier alluded to on WynTV, a semi-final RACE & final RACE run on the Snowshoe track is asking ALOT of rider & equipment.
There are a dozen things to pop a rear tire that revolve around the equipment (rim/tire/suspension path/psi/temp/carcass/damper settings). But almost every time, it's rider inputs. Most every flat is legs extended or compressed and the rim/tire taking an impact that it cannot defend at any number of angles from any number of objects.
Gwin flatted in a mud hole at Ft. Bill last year. GM flatted in a berm this year. Death by a thousand paper cuts if you ask me.
If the Maxxis tires were an issue, you'd see ALL their pro teams having a LOT of issues. They've got a ton of racers on track.
Lots of teams on Maxxis & DT not getting flats.
Just like Vergier alluded to on WynTV, a semi-final RACE & final RACE run on the...
Lots of teams on Maxxis & DT not getting flats.
Just like Vergier alluded to on WynTV, a semi-final RACE & final RACE run on the Snowshoe track is asking ALOT of rider & equipment.
There are a dozen things to pop a rear tire that revolve around the equipment (rim/tire/suspension path/psi/temp/carcass/damper settings). But almost every time, it's rider inputs. Most every flat is legs extended or compressed and the rim/tire taking an impact that it cannot defend at any number of angles from any number of objects.
Gwin flatted in a mud hole at Ft. Bill last year. GM flatted in a berm this year. Death by a thousand paper cuts if you ask me.
If the Maxxis tires were an issue, you'd see ALL their pro teams having a LOT of issues. They've got a ton of racers on track.
My money is just on the format this year.
Maybe this will lead to innovation in regards to tires and wheels. If we can put someone on the moon I'm sure its possible to make it down a mountain without getting a flat tire. I feel like a lot of bike components have subpar reliability these days anyways and us as the consumer have been putting up with it for a long time.
Maybe this will lead to innovation in regards to tires and wheels. If we can put someone on the moon I'm sure its possible to make...
Maybe this will lead to innovation in regards to tires and wheels. If we can put someone on the moon I'm sure its possible to make it down a mountain without getting a flat tire. I feel like a lot of bike components have subpar reliability these days anyways and us as the consumer have been putting up with it for a long time.
Has NOTHING to do with what the consumer WANTS. Every company could make a Dh tire /rim combo that doesn't flat.
But nobody wants to risk losing a race running something heavy enough to cross the line intact and fully inflated EVERY SINGLE TIME.
And no one is gonna buy that tire unless it's got a motocross engine attached to it.
Maxxis, Michelin, Continental, Vee, Pirelli, Tioga, Kenda...you name it. They could ALL make that tire.
But you can't get GM to run it in a winner takes all race determined by .01 second. And you're not gonna sell it to the public.
It can be made. It can't be sold. To racers or consumers
Maybe this will lead to innovation in regards to tires and wheels. If we can put someone on the moon I'm sure its possible to make...
Maybe this will lead to innovation in regards to tires and wheels. If we can put someone on the moon I'm sure its possible to make it down a mountain without getting a flat tire. I feel like a lot of bike components have subpar reliability these days anyways and us as the consumer have been putting up with it for a long time.
Has NOTHING to do with what the consumer WANTS. Every company could make a Dh tire /rim combo that doesn't flat.
But nobody wants to risk...
Has NOTHING to do with what the consumer WANTS. Every company could make a Dh tire /rim combo that doesn't flat.
But nobody wants to risk losing a race running something heavy enough to cross the line intact and fully inflated EVERY SINGLE TIME.
And no one is gonna buy that tire unless it's got a motocross engine attached to it.
Maxxis, Michelin, Continental, Vee, Pirelli, Tioga, Kenda...you name it. They could ALL make that tire.
But you can't get GM to run it in a winner takes all race determined by .01 second. And you're not gonna sell it to the public.
It can be made. It can't be sold. To racers or consumers
I should have been more specific, I didn't mean tires that literally never broke but the rate of failure could be improved upon certainly.
Anecdotally I would like to see a count of tire failures by brand in Semi Finals and Finals this year. It would be interesting to see if Maxxis has significantly more issues than say Continental. I have watched most of the finals runs this year and off the top of my head I can't recall any Continental failures? Again, this would be anecdotal but interesting nonetheless.
I should have been more specific, I didn't mean tires that literally never broke but the rate of failure could be improved upon certainly.
Anecdotally I...
I should have been more specific, I didn't mean tires that literally never broke but the rate of failure could be improved upon certainly.
Anecdotally I would like to see a count of tire failures by brand in Semi Finals and Finals this year. It would be interesting to see if Maxxis has significantly more issues than say Continental. I have watched most of the finals runs this year and off the top of my head I can't recall any Continental failures? Again, this would be anecdotal but interesting nonetheless.
Not a race run, but Oisin O'Callaghan's running Contis and flatted in practice, not too surprising on this track. I can't think of any other examples though, Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate. Aren't the Contis lighter too?
I'm wondering if the Reserve rims are part of the problem (at least as far as SC are concerned). I know Neko was running them at one point, but has switched to DT Swiss.
I should have been more specific, I didn't mean tires that literally never broke but the rate of failure could be improved upon certainly.
Anecdotally I...
I should have been more specific, I didn't mean tires that literally never broke but the rate of failure could be improved upon certainly.
Anecdotally I would like to see a count of tire failures by brand in Semi Finals and Finals this year. It would be interesting to see if Maxxis has significantly more issues than say Continental. I have watched most of the finals runs this year and off the top of my head I can't recall any Continental failures? Again, this would be anecdotal but interesting nonetheless.
Not a race run, but Oisin O'Callaghan's running Contis and flatted in practice, not too surprising on this track. I can't think of any other examples...
Not a race run, but Oisin O'Callaghan's running Contis and flatted in practice, not too surprising on this track. I can't think of any other examples though, Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate. Aren't the Contis lighter too?
I'm wondering if the Reserve rims are part of the problem (at least as far as SC are concerned). I know Neko was running them at one point, but has switched to DT Swiss.
"Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate"
is that because more riders are on maxxis so it just seems like a higher failure rate (eg there are more of them out there so the discrete # of failures will inherently be higher)? or is it actually a higher defect rate?
Not a race run, but Oisin O'Callaghan's running Contis and flatted in practice, not too surprising on this track. I can't think of any other examples...
Not a race run, but Oisin O'Callaghan's running Contis and flatted in practice, not too surprising on this track. I can't think of any other examples though, Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate. Aren't the Contis lighter too?
I'm wondering if the Reserve rims are part of the problem (at least as far as SC are concerned). I know Neko was running them at one point, but has switched to DT Swiss.
Speaking of the reserve wheels, did you see Goldstone basically ride nearly a whole run through the rocks etc on a completely flat tire and there was no damage to the rim!? Brings that Danny mcaskill tireless reserve wheel video to mind…
quite different to Daprela’s enve explosion 💥
clearly they are very strong rims, maybe TOO strong that they causing punctures 🤷🏻♂️
"Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate"
is that because more riders are on maxxis so it just seems like a higher failure...
"Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate"
is that because more riders are on maxxis so it just seems like a higher failure rate (eg there are more of them out there so the discrete # of failures will inherently be higher)? or is it actually a higher defect rate?
I don't know, but there are a fair few teams running Contis and as Dirty Hal says I also can't think of any riders flatting on them during race runs this season, whereas the list for riders on Maxxis that I can think of immediately is pretty long, especially if you count Minnaar's separately.
"Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate"
is that because more riders are on maxxis so it just seems like a higher failure...
"Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate"
is that because more riders are on maxxis so it just seems like a higher failure rate (eg there are more of them out there so the discrete # of failures will inherently be higher)? or is it actually a higher defect rate?
I don't know, but there are a fair few teams running Contis and as Dirty Hal says I also can't think of any riders flatting on...
I don't know, but there are a fair few teams running Contis and as Dirty Hal says I also can't think of any riders flatting on them during race runs this season, whereas the list for riders on Maxxis that I can think of immediately is pretty long, especially if you count Minnaar's separately.
It's also hard to guage because riders with flats in Qualifying aren't seen on video.
Then Semi-Finals & Finals.
I'm looking at Roots & Rain right now to try to spot flats that terminated runs to the point of being even 10 seconds off the finals pace & you don't see them. That speaks volumes about modern wheel/tire tech.
Think about it:Qualies, Semis, Finals. Look at the results sheet. In the past, you'd see a massive time gap for 5 guys who came down with flats. But not now.
The course I laid out for the Sugar Mtn Natl, the resort owner closed the waterfall section for just race runs. A hatchet rock fell out of the grass bank into the grass ditch they routed it into. It punctured 5 of final 7 racers rear tires & gave us a disappointing race. ONE ROCK ON GRASS took out Rando, Bangert & more.
Yet here we are watching Snowshoe get 100+ of the best racers in the world exploding into trees, smashing step downs & cart wheeling and in the end...maybe 5 guys were affected by tire issues on a dry course for 3 max effort runs. We've come pretty damn far.
I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department. Could it be that the teams don’t have a good understanding of them yet in regards to fine tuning or are they too fragile? I’m sure I’m missing the obvious not hopefully someone can enlighten me
I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department. Could it be...
I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department. Could it be that the teams don’t have a good understanding of them yet in regards to fine tuning or are they too fragile? I’m sure I’m missing the obvious not hopefully someone can enlighten me
Don't they take a lot longer to lace up than traditional spokes? Given how often wc mechanics have to lace wheels to begin with, any extra time in that process is probably a non-starter.
"Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate"
is that because more riders are on maxxis so it just seems like a higher failure...
"Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate"
is that because more riders are on maxxis so it just seems like a higher failure rate (eg there are more of them out there so the discrete # of failures will inherently be higher)? or is it actually a higher defect rate?
I don't know, but there are a fair few teams running Contis and as Dirty Hal says I also can't think of any riders flatting on...
I don't know, but there are a fair few teams running Contis and as Dirty Hal says I also can't think of any riders flatting on them during race runs this season, whereas the list for riders on Maxxis that I can think of immediately is pretty long, especially if you count Minnaar's separately.
In the absence of empirical data on this, we can only speculate. I'd certainly be curious to see how the numbers stack up. But the data set would also need to account for things like rider weight, inserts vs non, rim material, wheel size, tire pressure, etc.
I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department. Could it be...
I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department. Could it be that the teams don’t have a good understanding of them yet in regards to fine tuning or are they too fragile? I’m sure I’m missing the obvious not hopefully someone can enlighten me
They're very new still and might take a while to understand if they are up to the task, it would also make wheel rebuilds very tough during a race weekend as rims are basically expected to be disposable!
Or rim/tire/pressure/force that is the issue. Also they keep saying they are on prototype tires so that may not be everyone.
I know Jackson flatted today...
Or rim/tire/pressure/force that is the issue. Also they keep saying they are on prototype tires so that may not be everyone.
I know Jackson flatted today but who else has had issues on syndicate this season
My 2cents.
I raced the 'prototype' tire in Chatel, after testing it at home, and was extremely happy with it. It shrugged off some gross impacts and felt good doing it. I'm running DT Swiss so that might help too.
The berd and pi rope spokes have a “rest” period where they lose tension much more than normal metal spokes. This is hard to work around in a race weekend. There is a way around it by pre stretching them on a machine. Avancini has been racing them the last 2 seasons in XCO and XCM and his wheels are around 1200g!
Greg’s tire issues remind me of the 2005-10 era when Deemax rims were so stiff they would blow tires off or crack beads. I’m not sure if that’s exactly what’s going on with his setup, but the reserve DH are pretty stiff wheels.
Sam Hill running DT 5.1 XC race rims for race runs (not mavic but I couldn’t think of an example there) and the rims would be obliterated but the tires would stay attached.
The berd and pi rope spokes have a “rest” period where they lose tension much more than normal metal spokes. This is hard to work around...
The berd and pi rope spokes have a “rest” period where they lose tension much more than normal metal spokes. This is hard to work around in a race weekend. There is a way around it by pre stretching them on a machine. Avancini has been racing them the last 2 seasons in XCO and XCM and his wheels are around 1200g!
Greg’s tire issues remind me of the 2005-10 era when Deemax rims were so stiff they would blow tires off or crack beads. I’m not sure if that’s exactly what’s going on with his setup, but the reserve DH are pretty stiff wheels.
Sam Hill running DT 5.1 XC race rims for race runs (not mavic but I couldn’t think of an example there) and the rims would be obliterated but the tires would stay attached.
It's not a stretch to think that. Cane Creek Duros wheels came out around that time. Straight lace on a girder style hub so spokes were super short. Made mostly for pro slalom and aggressive trail. Slalom pros like Joe Haley & Chris Herndon would rip the bead off the rim in berms w/ tires at max psi.
I still have a rear against my shed and it's straight as an arrow. Rigid to a fault.
Oh...and there are some tricks that some mechanics/teams are using on their wheels/tires that not everyone uses & nobody is going to tell you.
Yeah, the truth about inserts is we never know whether racers are running inserts or not. Tire manufacturers want to be able to claim their racers like the manufacturers tires as is, "our tires don't need inserts," etc. That said, if I were Greg this season I would have started running a rear insert about 10 race run flats ago.
My 2cents.
I raced the 'prototype' tire in Chatel, after testing it at home, and was extremely happy with it. It shrugged off some gross impacts...
My 2cents.
I raced the 'prototype' tire in Chatel, after testing it at home, and was extremely happy with it. It shrugged off some gross impacts and felt good doing it. I'm running DT Swiss so that might help too.
Jesse, are you talking about the 'prototype' in terms of the new casing/sidewall or the prototype in terms of the new tire that is more of a bulked up Shorty2? Assuming the former, but just wanted to clarify.
Jesse, are you talking about the 'prototype' in terms of the new casing/sidewall or the prototype in terms of the new tire that is more of...
Jesse, are you talking about the 'prototype' in terms of the new casing/sidewall or the prototype in terms of the new tire that is more of a bulked up Shorty2? Assuming the former, but just wanted to clarify.
Yea, I was speaking towards the casing/sidewall prototype.
But I actually raced both of them, I swapped halfway through the day. The Mudslayer(not the actual name) was also super good.
Vergier is either running blacked out Maxxis or sometime sponsor correct Pirelli. But Vali and Ryan Pinkerton are running Conti too and doesn't seem to slow / hold them back.
Where’s the motorcycle engine. Stop being such a clown and post a tech rumor
Nice one. If that's Neko's bike then there are likely other sensors on it somewhere that feed back to the shock (per Jordi on Dialed).
Is it just me or does the shaft on that DHX2 look larger diameter than standard? Could be perspective but I wouldn't be surprised if they had chosen to go in a similar direction to EXT due to yoke and trunnion mount issues
Looks like they are using a DHX chassis which has the 1/2" shaft.
Lots of teams on Maxxis & DT not getting flats.
Just like Vergier alluded to on WynTV, a semi-final RACE & final RACE run on the Snowshoe track is asking ALOT of rider & equipment.
There are a dozen things to pop a rear tire that revolve around the equipment (rim/tire/suspension path/psi/temp/carcass/damper settings). But almost every time, it's rider inputs. Most every flat is legs extended or compressed and the rim/tire taking an impact that it cannot defend at any number of angles from any number of objects.
Gwin flatted in a mud hole at Ft. Bill last year. GM flatted in a berm this year. Death by a thousand paper cuts if you ask me.
If the Maxxis tires were an issue, you'd see ALL their pro teams having a LOT of issues. They've got a ton of racers on track.
My money is just on the format this year.
Oh...and there are some tricks that some mechanics/teams are using on their wheels/tires that not everyone uses & nobody is going to tell you.
Specialized mechanic at snowshoe said "soon" and when asked if it would be uncovered at Moun Sainte Anne he said not quite
Maybe this will lead to innovation in regards to tires and wheels. If we can put someone on the moon I'm sure its possible to make it down a mountain without getting a flat tire. I feel like a lot of bike components have subpar reliability these days anyways and us as the consumer have been putting up with it for a long time.
Has NOTHING to do with what the consumer WANTS. Every company could make a Dh tire /rim combo that doesn't flat.
But nobody wants to risk losing a race running something heavy enough to cross the line intact and fully inflated EVERY SINGLE TIME.
And no one is gonna buy that tire unless it's got a motocross engine attached to it.
Maxxis, Michelin, Continental, Vee, Pirelli, Tioga, Kenda...you name it. They could ALL make that tire.
But you can't get GM to run it in a winner takes all race determined by .01 second. And you're not gonna sell it to the public.
It can be made. It can't be sold. To racers or consumers
I should have been more specific, I didn't mean tires that literally never broke but the rate of failure could be improved upon certainly.
Anecdotally I would like to see a count of tire failures by brand in Semi Finals and Finals this year. It would be interesting to see if Maxxis has significantly more issues than say Continental. I have watched most of the finals runs this year and off the top of my head I can't recall any Continental failures? Again, this would be anecdotal but interesting nonetheless.
Not a race run, but Oisin O'Callaghan's running Contis and flatted in practice, not too surprising on this track. I can't think of any other examples though, Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate. Aren't the Contis lighter too?
I'm wondering if the Reserve rims are part of the problem (at least as far as SC are concerned). I know Neko was running them at one point, but has switched to DT Swiss.
"Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate"
is that because more riders are on maxxis so it just seems like a higher failure rate (eg there are more of them out there so the discrete # of failures will inherently be higher)? or is it actually a higher defect rate?
Speaking of the reserve wheels, did you see Goldstone basically ride nearly a whole run through the rocks etc on a completely flat tire and there was no damage to the rim!? Brings that Danny mcaskill tireless reserve wheel video to mind…
quite different to Daprela’s enve explosion 💥
clearly they are very strong rims, maybe TOO strong that they causing punctures 🤷🏻♂️
I don't know, but there are a fair few teams running Contis and as Dirty Hal says I also can't think of any riders flatting on them during race runs this season, whereas the list for riders on Maxxis that I can think of immediately is pretty long, especially if you count Minnaar's separately.
It's also hard to guage because riders with flats in Qualifying aren't seen on video.
Then Semi-Finals & Finals.
I'm looking at Roots & Rain right now to try to spot flats that terminated runs to the point of being even 10 seconds off the finals pace & you don't see them. That speaks volumes about modern wheel/tire tech.
Think about it:Qualies, Semis, Finals. Look at the results sheet. In the past, you'd see a massive time gap for 5 guys who came down with flats. But not now.
The course I laid out for the Sugar Mtn Natl, the resort owner closed the waterfall section for just race runs. A hatchet rock fell out of the grass bank into the grass ditch they routed it into. It punctured 5 of final 7 racers rear tires & gave us a disappointing race. ONE ROCK ON GRASS took out Rando, Bangert & more.
Yet here we are watching Snowshoe get 100+ of the best racers in the world exploding into trees, smashing step downs & cart wheeling and in the end...maybe 5 guys were affected by tire issues on a dry course for 3 max effort runs. We've come pretty damn far.
I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department. Could it be that the teams don’t have a good understanding of them yet in regards to fine tuning or are they too fragile? I’m sure I’m missing the obvious not hopefully someone can enlighten me
Don't they take a lot longer to lace up than traditional spokes? Given how often wc mechanics have to lace wheels to begin with, any extra time in that process is probably a non-starter.
In the absence of empirical data on this, we can only speculate. I'd certainly be curious to see how the numbers stack up. But the data set would also need to account for things like rider weight, inserts vs non, rim material, wheel size, tire pressure, etc.
They're very new still and might take a while to understand if they are up to the task, it would also make wheel rebuilds very tough during a race weekend as rims are basically expected to be disposable!
My 2cents.
I raced the 'prototype' tire in Chatel, after testing it at home, and was extremely happy with it. It shrugged off some gross impacts and felt good doing it. I'm running DT Swiss so that might help too.
Bec Henderson flatted her Maxxis, ruining a great ride. Tmk that was the only flat in the women's wc.
The berd and pi rope spokes have a “rest” period where they lose tension much more than normal metal spokes. This is hard to work around in a race weekend. There is a way around it by pre stretching them on a machine. Avancini has been racing them the last 2 seasons in XCO and XCM and his wheels are around 1200g!
Greg’s tire issues remind me of the 2005-10 era when Deemax rims were so stiff they would blow tires off or crack beads. I’m not sure if that’s exactly what’s going on with his setup, but the reserve DH are pretty stiff wheels.
Sam Hill running DT 5.1 XC race rims for race runs (not mavic but I couldn’t think of an example there) and the rims would be obliterated but the tires would stay attached.
It's not a stretch to think that. Cane Creek Duros wheels came out around that time. Straight lace on a girder style hub so spokes were super short. Made mostly for pro slalom and aggressive trail. Slalom pros like Joe Haley & Chris Herndon would rip the bead off the rim in berms w/ tires at max psi.
I still have a rear against my shed and it's straight as an arrow. Rigid to a fault.
Yeah, the truth about inserts is we never know whether racers are running inserts or not. Tire manufacturers want to be able to claim their racers like the manufacturers tires as is, "our tires don't need inserts," etc. That said, if I were Greg this season I would have started running a rear insert about 10 race run flats ago.
Jesse, are you talking about the 'prototype' in terms of the new casing/sidewall or the prototype in terms of the new tire that is more of a bulked up Shorty2? Assuming the former, but just wanted to clarify.
Yea, I was speaking towards the casing/sidewall prototype.
But I actually raced both of them, I swapped halfway through the day. The Mudslayer(not the actual name) was also super good.