MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Jakub_G
Posts
355
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8/7/2019
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SK
7/2/2023 10:00am
Well, they’ve probably found something new that allows the bike to be super fast and planted, and keep up with the high-pivot bikes on the gnarly...

Well, they’ve probably found something new that allows the bike to be super fast and planted, and keep up with the high-pivot bikes on the gnarly stuff, that’s why they covered it up. 
Something that’s been bugging me for some time now: why does the Cube HP bike need a floating brake arm? Being a horst-link and especially a highish-pivot one, aren’t the brake forces almost completely separated from the suspension and therefore there’s no need for this?  

dolface wrote:

I was wondering if it was a Danny thing more than a Cube thing as he also ran one on the Saracen for a while...

I would say it's development thing,as none of those arms are making it to the production 

Primoz
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4583
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SI
7/2/2023 10:30am

The Saracen variant (the old one from Danny's days) were there to try things out. Confirmed by their designer on PB.

1
7/2/2023 12:22pm
AgrAde wrote:
Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect...

Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect that the AR on a mid-pivot horst link bike is still lower in general than a single pivot/VPP/DW bike where the main pivot, real or virtual, is near the top of the chainring through most of the stroke. Perhaps they want to keep the very low AR braking feel of a typical horst while also making use of a higher pivot.

There is a problem that exists with super low anti rise that’s always glossed over. If anti rise is too low, the whole bike pitches forward more dramatically under heavy braking. For example, personally I think the enduro has too little anti rise because when slamming on the brakes super hard the rear goes to full extension easier than I’d like. Combined with lots of compression on the fork, it results in the thing riding like it has super steep geo. It also will pitch forward a lot when trying to creep into steep things. On a whole the enduro is great bike and this issue is only in two particular scenarios, but it does show why on any bike, including Horst link, one might want to tune anti rise for a given track and not always to make it lower.

9
AgrAde
Posts
206
Joined
5/21/2015
Location
AL US
7/2/2023 7:20pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2023 7:24pm
AgrAde wrote:
Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect...

Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect that the AR on a mid-pivot horst link bike is still lower in general than a single pivot/VPP/DW bike where the main pivot, real or virtual, is near the top of the chainring through most of the stroke. Perhaps they want to keep the very low AR braking feel of a typical horst while also making use of a higher pivot.

There is a problem that exists with super low anti rise that’s always glossed over. If anti rise is too low, the whole bike pitches forward...

There is a problem that exists with super low anti rise that’s always glossed over. If anti rise is too low, the whole bike pitches forward more dramatically under heavy braking. For example, personally I think the enduro has too little anti rise because when slamming on the brakes super hard the rear goes to full extension easier than I’d like. Combined with lots of compression on the fork, it results in the thing riding like it has super steep geo. It also will pitch forward a lot when trying to creep into steep things. On a whole the enduro is great bike and this issue is only in two particular scenarios, but it does show why on any bike, including Horst link, one might want to tune anti rise for a given track and not always to make it lower.

Yeah, I prefer high AR bikes (100+ %) and consider any issues with choppiness and harsh suspension under braking to be a damping setup issue more than a kinematics issue. The benefit of a rear end that squats/calms itself/slackens the bike under braking is pretty noticeable imo. And I've only noticed high AR ever feel bad when the bike had the rebound too slow or the bike was relying on a low speed climbing platform compression setting to provide support.

 

The general attitude towards AR though is that lower is better... So assumed that is what they were going for.

 

2
TimBud
Posts
535
Joined
2/29/2012
Location
GB
7/2/2023 11:02pm

Ben Deakin has a new Focus

IMG 7764 0

 Whistling

3
2
juliusk
Posts
116
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1/21/2021
Location
Clausthal-Zellerfeld DE
7/2/2023 11:13pm
TimBud wrote:
Ben Deakin has a new Focus  

Ben Deakin has a new Focus

IMG 7764 0

 Whistling

More or less

8
brash
Posts
948
Joined
4/24/2019
Location
AU
7/2/2023 11:19pm

That's the old Pon Holdings V10

 

18
Primoz
Posts
4583
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
7/2/2023 11:39pm
AgrAde wrote:
Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect...

Horst link bikes generally have low anti-rise because the virtual pivot point is usually quite far forward. But raising the pivot means adding anti-rise. I expect that the AR on a mid-pivot horst link bike is still lower in general than a single pivot/VPP/DW bike where the main pivot, real or virtual, is near the top of the chainring through most of the stroke. Perhaps they want to keep the very low AR braking feel of a typical horst while also making use of a higher pivot.

There is a problem that exists with super low anti rise that’s always glossed over. If anti rise is too low, the whole bike pitches forward...

There is a problem that exists with super low anti rise that’s always glossed over. If anti rise is too low, the whole bike pitches forward more dramatically under heavy braking. For example, personally I think the enduro has too little anti rise because when slamming on the brakes super hard the rear goes to full extension easier than I’d like. Combined with lots of compression on the fork, it results in the thing riding like it has super steep geo. It also will pitch forward a lot when trying to creep into steep things. On a whole the enduro is great bike and this issue is only in two particular scenarios, but it does show why on any bike, including Horst link, one might want to tune anti rise for a given track and not always to make it lower.

AgrAde wrote:
Yeah, I prefer high AR bikes (100+ %) and consider any issues with choppiness and harsh suspension under braking to be a damping setup issue more...

Yeah, I prefer high AR bikes (100+ %) and consider any issues with choppiness and harsh suspension under braking to be a damping setup issue more than a kinematics issue. The benefit of a rear end that squats/calms itself/slackens the bike under braking is pretty noticeable imo. And I've only noticed high AR ever feel bad when the bike had the rebound too slow or the bike was relying on a low speed climbing platform compression setting to provide support.

 

The general attitude towards AR though is that lower is better... So assumed that is what they were going for.

 

Fabien Barel famously rode his floating brake arm on the Kona in a way where his rear end would get pulled into the travel under braking to add stability. Therefore my previous comments about floating brake arms giving the option of adjustability (through changing the length of the supporting arm for the brake link).

6
7/3/2023 12:04am

So, in essence, a brake arm can change the characteristics of a suspension design in more ways than just make it active during braking. Didn’t know that - always thought it’s there just for the “active during braking” job, so it was kinda strange to see it on a horst-link which is famous for being active without a brake arm. Thanx! Smile

3
Kale123
Posts
36
Joined
2/23/2022
Location
Brisbane, QLD AU
Fantasy
7/3/2023 3:39am

Focus v10 Blush

7
7/3/2023 4:17am
TimBud wrote:
Ben Deakin has a new Focus  

Ben Deakin has a new Focus

IMG 7764 0

 Whistling

Off topic but does anyone else find this pair’s particular brand of youtubey influencer absolutely unbearable?

22
3
7/3/2023 4:49am

Spotted that new Prototype Pyga HP DH bike in the bike abuse video from Val Di Sol

PYGA-DH

 

10
Javigutz
Posts
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10/6/2022
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
7/3/2023 4:57am
Spotted that new Prototype Pyga HP DH bike in the bike abuse video from Val Di Sol  

Spotted that new Prototype Pyga HP DH bike in the bike abuse video from Val Di Sol

PYGA-DH

 

I will love to see any update to the Pyga enduro bikes soon.

pablo_b
Posts
32
Joined
11/6/2018
Location
CH
7/3/2023 2:03pm

I got a glimpse of a picture of the new Ransom. Hidden shock as everyone expected but it also hat kind of a wishbone/extra link a la demo if its a four bar or could even be a 6bar (dont think so) and have a rocker and the wishbone link like the new supreme. Also had some weird/unknown to me rotors.

4
Big Bird
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2296
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2/1/2011
Location
Oceano, CA US
7/3/2023 2:28pm
So, in essence, a brake arm can change the characteristics of a suspension design in more ways than just make it active during braking. Didn’t know...

So, in essence, a brake arm can change the characteristics of a suspension design in more ways than just make it active during braking. Didn’t know that - always thought it’s there just for the “active during braking” job, so it was kinda strange to see it on a horst-link which is famous for being active without a brake arm. Thanx! Smile

Just So. My only use is a DIY DH bike using a Santa Cruz Bullit swing arm. Theirs went to the seat tube and would more or less point at the single pivot point. Tunable slightly up or down. I had to cut out and reweld a section of seat tube to support the amount of force that It imparts. 

1
7/3/2023 6:15pm
pablo_b wrote:
I got a glimpse of a picture of the new Ransom. Hidden shock as everyone expected but it also hat kind of a wishbone/extra link a...

I got a glimpse of a picture of the new Ransom. Hidden shock as everyone expected but it also hat kind of a wishbone/extra link a la demo if its a four bar or could even be a 6bar (dont think so) and have a rocker and the wishbone link like the new supreme. Also had some weird/unknown to me rotors.

Could you see where the vertical link finishes at the top (like the Specialized), or does it appear to go into the seat tube like the Yeti Sixfinity models? And did it look like it had an idler?

Onawalk
Posts
344
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
7/5/2023 11:00am

Is it just a slow week?

2
juliusk
Posts
116
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1/21/2021
Location
Clausthal-Zellerfeld DE
7/5/2023 12:19pm

Must be the frustration from no Boxxer nor GX Transmission Release…

2
dolface
Posts
1679
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10/26/2015
Location
CA US
7/5/2023 12:30pm
juliusk wrote:

Must be the frustration from no Boxxer nor GX Transmission Release…

My LBS just told me they have GX Transmission Treks arriving tomorrow (but not build kits).

2
26aintdead
Posts
22
Joined
10/19/2022
Location
Rossland, BC CA
7/5/2023 12:30pm

yes and no Vivid

7/5/2023 1:57pm

More photos of the Vorsprung Shock

IMG 1524.jpeg?VersionId=

 IMG 1526.jpeg?VersionId=HQOIJnYnz0m8cVtJSkX

 IMG 1525.jpeg?VersionId=VkTlKi0gc SqK1iisnISHjf4

 

14
ahleic09
Posts
78
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7/25/2018
Location
Bend, OR US
7/5/2023 3:40pm
juliusk wrote:

Must be the frustration from no Boxxer nor GX Transmission Release…

Or new slash 

1
ebruner
Posts
354
Joined
3/29/2018
Location
Tustin, CA US
7/5/2023 3:52pm Edited Date/Time 7/5/2023 3:53pm

Those look a lot like fox compression valves on that vs proto shock. Obviously it's still in testing phase, and if he is using the dhx2 valves, it's out of convenience in order to dial in the architecture.  Either way, I'm really interested in seeing what exactly Steve is trying to better/improve with his rear shock.  

I'm stoked to try that thing out.  I had a vorsprung tractive tuned super deluxe ultimate coil (that's a mouthful) on my v1 megatower that I just recently replaced with an 11/6.  The 11/6 is better... by a very slim margin.  Let's call it 3-5% better at over 300% of the cost of the tractive tuned super deluxe.  

I spoke to Steve briefly about the shock when I was picking up some parts from him on a recent whistler trip.  Sounded like it was 2024 release at the earliest.  Either way, I'm hoping it slots in between the dhx 2 and the 11/6.  If so, it would be the perfect setup at the right price.  

11
7/5/2023 9:42pm
ebruner wrote:
Those look a lot like fox compression valves on that vs proto shock. Obviously it's still in testing phase, and if he is using the dhx2...

Those look a lot like fox compression valves on that vs proto shock. Obviously it's still in testing phase, and if he is using the dhx2 valves, it's out of convenience in order to dial in the architecture.  Either way, I'm really interested in seeing what exactly Steve is trying to better/improve with his rear shock.  

I'm stoked to try that thing out.  I had a vorsprung tractive tuned super deluxe ultimate coil (that's a mouthful) on my v1 megatower that I just recently replaced with an 11/6.  The 11/6 is better... by a very slim margin.  Let's call it 3-5% better at over 300% of the cost of the tractive tuned super deluxe.  

I spoke to Steve briefly about the shock when I was picking up some parts from him on a recent whistler trip.  Sounded like it was 2024 release at the earliest.  Either way, I'm hoping it slots in between the dhx 2 and the 11/6.  If so, it would be the perfect setup at the right price.  

I can confirm a read a comment reply from Vorsprung on IG that said available Q1 of 2024.

I’m definitely interested to try the shock. I really appreciate Steve’s attention to detail and all the information he produces on YouTube. But yes, what does he plan to do differently than what’s available on the market? I feel like they wouldn’t put out a shock unless it does something better than what’s available.

3
7/6/2023 1:16am

Sorry if this has already been posted but Deviate is racing a dual crown Claymore at WCDH 

 

 

4
pablo_b
Posts
32
Joined
11/6/2018
Location
CH
7/6/2023 2:10am
pablo_b wrote:
I got a glimpse of a picture of the new Ransom. Hidden shock as everyone expected but it also hat kind of a wishbone/extra link a...

I got a glimpse of a picture of the new Ransom. Hidden shock as everyone expected but it also hat kind of a wishbone/extra link a la demo if its a four bar or could even be a 6bar (dont think so) and have a rocker and the wishbone link like the new supreme. Also had some weird/unknown to me rotors.

Could you see where the vertical link finishes at the top (like the Specialized), or does it appear to go into the seat tube like the...

Could you see where the vertical link finishes at the top (like the Specialized), or does it appear to go into the seat tube like the Yeti Sixfinity models? And did it look like it had an idler?

There is a pivot where a classic horst pivot would be, then seatstays that connect to a "rocker" and inbetween the seatstay pivot and the rocker to seattube attachment there is a wishbone a la demo/supreme. Definitely no idler. Red are pivots. Green shock attachment. blue rear axleransom

 

1
1
7/6/2023 2:30am

Kirk McDowell on a much more refined aurum(?) mule. IMG 3995 0 

 

4
mtbboy1993
Posts
21
Joined
4/19/2015
Location
Askim NO
7/6/2023 3:34am
Kale123 wrote:
Focus v10 

Focus v10 Blush

Most likely they don't have a DH bike for him yet, so they just rebranded the V10

1
1
gibbon
Posts
463
Joined
3/7/2019
Location
wales GB
7/6/2023 5:00am

Sorry if this has already been posted but Deviate is racing a dual crown Claymore at WCDH 

 

 

Claymore mould with stronger layup and a different link to give more travel.

1
Primoz
Posts
4583
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
7/6/2023 7:45am
Kale123 wrote:
Focus v10 

Focus v10 Blush

mtbboy1993 wrote:

Most likely they don't have a DH bike for him yet, so they just rebranded the V10

Given the general state of the market are Focus even going to make a DH bike?

2
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