I'm sure there's an up and coming cyclist or two that could use 25000$ to help spur their career. I know socal is a huge market...
I'm sure there's an up and coming cyclist or two that could use 25000$ to help spur their career. I know socal is a huge market, but if he's only reaching a small part of the population there, 25k is expensive to draw a small part of the market in when the person has zero pull outside of one market.
They've also lost almost their whole gravity side of things the last few years with Jerome stepping away and them folding their DH team just before the season started which started the Jack Moir struggle over the winter. I feel like Dorel is once again focusing Cannondale on Road/WC XC and GT on the gravity scene with just enough mid travel cross over to fill gaps (the jekyll vs the Force) and limit carrying two teams of athletes for each discipline like when they condensed their Mongoose teams into either Cannondale or GT a few years ago before making Mongoose a full on budget brand. Trimming the fat elsewhere gives them better investment on their world wide presence which makes sense. I'd be surprised if the Bryceland project lasts more than a season or two at this point.
Fully agree. It certainly makes sense for Dorel to focus brands onto the disciplines where they are much better identified with. I am surmising that there must have been a disconnect somehow between the strategy planning in Dorel vs the decision makers in CDale a couple of years ago.
In any case, I'm genuinely gutted for Tinker (he was in all the magazines back in the day), but Kirt Voreis has shown us what can be done if you dust off the bad shit of the past and adapt to the new ways of promoting bikes in the new millennium.
I like the words of Jack Moir when he won the EWS overall: "It's not a bad f*** you to the people who stitched me up, is it?"
Of course, Pinkbike poached this one and ran their own "story" on it. The comments are interesting, with lots of people suggesting Tinker was perhaps not the most approachable guy. Who knows. I've never met him.
What I do know is it seems a lot of athletes struggled to transition from the "results mean everything" racer they may have been in the 90s to the "ambassador" of today.
In a lot of ways, racing is a lot easier, if you have the raw talent. Being an ambassador would be exhausting. A never ending churn of content, where you have to keep reinventing the formula to keep things fresh, interesting and engaging. Where I feel bad for Tinker is that never seemed to be what he signed up for. Then again, things change & shift in all facets of life. You never want to be caught as the proverbial film company in an increasingly digital world. (obscure reference). Its pretty obvious that unless you are winning races at a high level, nobody (literally nobody) cares about results. You can use racing for content, which is a cool angle, but otherwise, its just for you and your close friends.
As others have pointed out, $25K could literally field a team of 18-22ish year old up and comers. I know I could have stretched a free bike and $5-8K as a 19 year old to go to ALL the races, make content for free bla bla bla. It would have seemed amazing, as dumb as it sounds. Pretty hard to not put your budget toward something like that as opposed to a racer who acts as though everyone should know who he is despite doing very little in the sport over the last decade + (as legendary as he is...)
walker shaw is UNION tm now. email from steel city media belwo
Hey all,
Just wanted to introduce you to our new team manager, Walker Shaw!
Hopefully you've crossed paths with Walker before on the circuit or in the pub, but in case you haven't, he's a long-term friend of SCM and a super talented rider himself, having raced at the top level all over the globe since his junior years. Racing on the World Cup DH circuit as a privateer for many years means he already knows what riders need and can relate to the daily happenings on and off the hill, a huge bonus for us. More importantly though, his attitude and personality personifies what the UNION is all about, finding that balance between fun and racing at the top level.
Walker will be the UNION's main man on the ground and behind the scenes in regards to rider management, product queries, orders and managing at all events from here on in.
walker shaw is UNION tm now. email from steel city media belwo
Hey all,
Just wanted to introduce you to our new team manager, Walker Shaw...
walker shaw is UNION tm now. email from steel city media belwo
Hey all,
Just wanted to introduce you to our new team manager, Walker Shaw!
Hopefully you've crossed paths with Walker before on the circuit or in the pub, but in case you haven't, he's a long-term friend of SCM and a super talented rider himself, having raced at the top level all over the globe since his junior years. Racing on the World Cup DH circuit as a privateer for many years means he already knows what riders need and can relate to the daily happenings on and off the hill, a huge bonus for us. More importantly though, his attitude and personality personifies what the UNION is all about, finding that balance between fun and racing at the top level.
Walker will be the UNION's main man on the ground and behind the scenes in regards to rider management, product queries, orders and managing at all events from here on in.
Will be interesting if Maes does end up at Orbea going from a high pivot/idler bike back to something ‘normal’
He's so good, and so precise, I highly doubt it matters. If anything, I could see the argument he'll be even better on the Orbea (not that the GT is bad). Though I haven't ridden the new crop of idler bikes, one thing that always stood out to me way back when is how cumbersome they were in tighter/techier/awkward terrain, especially changing direction. While they are very forgiving, they did feel weird in certain types of corners where you weren't hauling ass.
Having watched Martin ride, he reminds me of a Nico-type rider where he is so good with wheel placement he would value precision over brute run-shit-over type technology (that I like
)
It felt in Wyn's post race that a lot of the Enduro racers seemed unsure about last year, or that's how I felt hearing a few of them talk. Interested to see what happens.
Will be interesting if Maes does end up at Orbea going from a high pivot/idler bike back to something ‘normal’
It’ll be interesting since they don’t have a DH bike. He seems to enjoy hitting a few DH rounds every year, and he’s pretty successful at it. I wonder if they have something in the works or if he’d run their enduro bike on a few DH tracks.
Will be interesting if Maes does end up at Orbea going from a high pivot/idler bike back to something ‘normal’
This might be controversial but I think High Pivot/ idler bikes are overrated af… it’s not like he won’t be able to ride with a more normal setup. We need to understand that pro riders don’t give a shit about equipment. I remember last year when Loris changes from SCS to Trek everyone was like:”uuuhhh no how will he be able to ride that bike with Rockshox and Sram and uh no the suspension is so different to the v10”. Yet he was in contention for the overall this year…
Pros are on another level, they don’t care about high pivot this and carbon that so I’m sure Maes will be fine wherever he ends up going next year.
He's so good, and so precise, I highly doubt it matters. If anything, I could see the argument he'll be even better on the Orbea (not...
He's so good, and so precise, I highly doubt it matters. If anything, I could see the argument he'll be even better on the Orbea (not that the GT is bad). Though I haven't ridden the new crop of idler bikes, one thing that always stood out to me way back when is how cumbersome they were in tighter/techier/awkward terrain, especially changing direction. While they are very forgiving, they did feel weird in certain types of corners where you weren't hauling ass.
Having watched Martin ride, he reminds me of a Nico-type rider where he is so good with wheel placement he would value precision over brute run-shit-over type technology (that I like
)
But yeah, totally guessing.
Recent or not it is more the HP design that matters. I owned a Suprem V4 which was great at ironing stuff but terrible when turns were tight and dangerous in case of strong g-outs, bottoming out, traits exacerbated as the steepness increased. After that I had the last of i-drive Fury and the current generation which is HP. The current Fury didn't display any of these traits and was pretty normal to ride with just extra smoothness in the rough. I will never go back to anything having a mostly backward axle path due to the weird and dangerous traits they have. But the Fury was great and I have good hopes for the new Force which has a similar axle path, some call it a Middle Pivot I think but that works well, I believe the Trek is somewhat similar which would explain why it was easy to adjust for Loris. Try these "MP" and you may change your mind on "HP"bikes.
I know it's derailing the topic, but the horst link 'high pivot-idler' bikes are in fact closer to a 'mid pivot' or much more similar to the suspension geometry of a 26" bike. But as the axle height rose (and the BBs stayed more or less at the same position), using the same suspension geometry would give too much pedal kickback. Therefore the idler.
What Forbidden are doing is a bit different. Or what Zerode was doing with the DH bike.
As for pros don't matter about the gear, maybe, but it seems that's not the right approach. Have a listen to Yoann Barelli's Wyn Masters podcast (he did two, not sure which one covers it more), he talks about riding the Grim Donut and how it would make sense to adapt the bike to the course they are running on a given weekend.
I suspect nobody does that because they want to sell bikes (as in win on sunday, sell on monday), but at least with DH it couldn't be THAT detrimental for the team to ride prototypes every weekend?
I'm sure there's an up and coming cyclist or two that could use 25000$ to help spur their career. I know socal is a huge market...
I'm sure there's an up and coming cyclist or two that could use 25000$ to help spur their career. I know socal is a huge market, but if he's only reaching a small part of the population there, 25k is expensive to draw a small part of the market in when the person has zero pull outside of one market.
They've also lost almost their whole gravity side of things the last few years with Jerome stepping away and them folding their DH team just before the season started which started the Jack Moir struggle over the winter. I feel like Dorel is once again focusing Cannondale on Road/WC XC and GT on the gravity scene with just enough mid travel cross over to fill gaps (the jekyll vs the Force) and limit carrying two teams of athletes for each discipline like when they condensed their Mongoose teams into either Cannondale or GT a few years ago before making Mongoose a full on budget brand. Trimming the fat elsewhere gives them better investment on their world wide presence which makes sense. I'd be surprised if the Bryceland project lasts more than a season or two at this point.
I think the brycland project is being pushed from the fabric components side, with cannondale brand being the justification for coughing up for josh.
If Laurie does head to syndicate, that leaves a lot of room on MS Mondraker as I'm sure he hasn't been cheap the last few seasons. Will they pick up a few up and comers to pair up with bulldog or will they be looking at a bigger change up?
It felt in Wyn's post race that a lot of the Enduro racers seemed unsure about last year, or that's how I felt hearing a few...
It felt in Wyn's post race that a lot of the Enduro racers seemed unsure about last year, or that's how I felt hearing a few of them talk. Interested to see what happens.
This reminded me of something: In 2004 we were with our National Team at the Worlds in Les Gets and the last World Cup round in Livigno. Vanessa Quin won the Worlds that year on a baby blue Intense M3 with Dorados, that was still to be released. She was riding on the Dirt/Intense team, with Shimano, Manitou and Troy Lee as co-sponsors. I was watching the men's finals and slowly descending the course, when I met Mike Rose, who was talking to somebody, most likely Sabrina Jonnier. What I overheard baffled me: Dirt/Intense weren't sure if they could provide Vanessa with support for the following year and it wasn't sure if she would be able to secure a ride at all. It was a moment when I realized that it's not all glitz and glamour at the top end of our sport and athletes work their asses off to find sponsors and companies that understand their efforts and needs.
By the way, Mike Rose and all the guys on the Dirt team are all class acts and I had met Vanessa and Nigel Page two years before at Kaprun and they were the nicest people; they treated me like a friend, even though I just met them and was just a fan, who hitchhiked to the World. It's something I will never ever forget!
Damn, I miss Dirt so much! Much Love to all of the above!
Mx
It felt in Wyn's post race that a lot of the Enduro racers seemed unsure about last year, or that's how I felt hearing a few...
It felt in Wyn's post race that a lot of the Enduro racers seemed unsure about last year, or that's how I felt hearing a few of them talk. Interested to see what happens.
This reminded me of something: In 2004 we were with our National Team at the Worlds in Les Gets and the last World Cup round in...
This reminded me of something: In 2004 we were with our National Team at the Worlds in Les Gets and the last World Cup round in Livigno. Vanessa Quin won the Worlds that year on a baby blue Intense M3 with Dorados, that was still to be released. She was riding on the Dirt/Intense team, with Shimano, Manitou and Troy Lee as co-sponsors. I was watching the men's finals and slowly descending the course, when I met Mike Rose, who was talking to somebody, most likely Sabrina Jonnier. What I overheard baffled me: Dirt/Intense weren't sure if they could provide Vanessa with support for the following year and it wasn't sure if she would be able to secure a ride at all. It was a moment when I realized that it's not all glitz and glamour at the top end of our sport and athletes work their asses off to find sponsors and companies that understand their efforts and needs.
By the way, Mike Rose and all the guys on the Dirt team are all class acts and I had met Vanessa and Nigel Page two years before at Kaprun and they were the nicest people; they treated me like a friend, even though I just met them and was just a fan, who hitchhiked to the World. It's something I will never ever forget!
Damn, I miss Dirt so much! Much Love to all of the above!
Mx
A little bit of a derail here, but this theme keeps coming up in this thread. One thing I genuinely wonder a lot about is if we were more up front with contracts, and what riders really get paid (EG, every ball sport), would that change things for the better? Kids should know what they are in fact chasing and how unlikely it is. Being "pro" doesn't always mean you are "pro" (eg, you pay for your life with your racing) if you know what I mean.
Moreover, for the riders who are near the top, they could more effectively negotiate. I can see the argument by not knowing what you are negotiating "against" (amount), the company really is the house and you are the player (vegas reference). They have more information, and see more cards in a way. Maybe a good agent levels this to some degree?
I get its a bit messier than a ball sport, in that a player's statistics are harder to measure. EG, Wyn kind of sucks by top rung racing standards (context is important here; he's incredible) but is very valuable due to his presence, personality and eyeball pulling ability.
Ultimately, as awkward as it may be to have your salary/winnings out there for all to see, it seems it'd be to everyone's advantage to do so.
A little bit of a derail here, but this theme keeps coming up in this thread. One thing I genuinely wonder a lot about is if...
A little bit of a derail here, but this theme keeps coming up in this thread. One thing I genuinely wonder a lot about is if we were more up front with contracts, and what riders really get paid (EG, every ball sport), would that change things for the better? Kids should know what they are in fact chasing and how unlikely it is. Being "pro" doesn't always mean you are "pro" (eg, you pay for your life with your racing) if you know what I mean.
Moreover, for the riders who are near the top, they could more effectively negotiate. I can see the argument by not knowing what you are negotiating "against" (amount), the company really is the house and you are the player (vegas reference). They have more information, and see more cards in a way. Maybe a good agent levels this to some degree?
I get its a bit messier than a ball sport, in that a player's statistics are harder to measure. EG, Wyn kind of sucks by top rung racing standards (context is important here; he's incredible) but is very valuable due to his presence, personality and eyeball pulling ability.
Ultimately, as awkward as it may be to have your salary/winnings out there for all to see, it seems it'd be to everyone's advantage to do so.
Just my $0.02.
Do the ball sports get viewers based on the paychecks or do they get paychecks based on viewers?
Those guys are paid based on revenue they generate. Ticket sales, TV deals, etc.. Then come deals like clothing...It's been reported that Colin Kaspernik still has a 7 figure Nike deal..
End of the day, bike sales alone are going to get anyone a NBA sized paycheck..
Do the ball sports get viewers based on the paychecks or do they get paychecks based on viewers?
Those guys are paid based on revenue they...
Do the ball sports get viewers based on the paychecks or do they get paychecks based on viewers?
Those guys are paid based on revenue they generate. Ticket sales, TV deals, etc.. Then come deals like clothing...It's been reported that Colin Kaspernik still has a 7 figure Nike deal..
End of the day, bike sales alone are going to get anyone a NBA sized paycheck..
I never meant to imply we'll see NBA sized paychecks in mountain biking; not at all. I also acknowledged the differences between ball sports & mountain biking.
However, I am suggesting, hiding salaries rider to rider in fact puts the rider at a disadvantage. Its the old Kramer in the coffee corporation office. "We'll give you free coffee for life and...." I"LL TAKE IT!!!
I've thought about it long and hard, and ultimately believe hiding salary information benefits the companies more than it does the rider. This is true in just about anything IMO.
I never meant to imply we'll see NBA sized paychecks in mountain biking; not at all. I also acknowledged the differences between ball sports & mountain...
I never meant to imply we'll see NBA sized paychecks in mountain biking; not at all. I also acknowledged the differences between ball sports & mountain biking.
However, I am suggesting, hiding salaries rider to rider in fact puts the rider at a disadvantage. Its the old Kramer in the coffee corporation office. "We'll give you free coffee for life and...." I"LL TAKE IT!!!
I've thought about it long and hard, and ultimately believe hiding salary information benefits the companies more than it does the rider. This is true in just about anything IMO.
Fair enough...
I will agree, hiding the numbers does benefit the companies We see salary numbers on ball players because of salary caps.. That info is out there and everyone knows where every other team stands..
I wonder what the difference in checks looks like between a #1 and #2 rider on a team like the Syndicate? Are Greg and Luca getting the same deal?(Before any bonus for the Worlds win) Doubtful, but they both have the opportunity to get money from a gear company which is a luxury most riders on teams don't get in the MTB world. Would there be friction in under the tend if they knew the numbers? Or Loic and Finn?
If you think about it, most "individual sports " don't throw out numbers... I haven't seen anything on what Eli Tomac is getting paid on his new deal..
This is true for everything. The issue is that it would hurt for a lot of people before it got better (and maybe it would hurt for quite a few people to actually see what they are worth, to see the pecking order). A lot of times ignorance is bliss.
But yes, hiding salaries is only beneficial to the employers (okay, and mental health in some cases
).
In any case, I'm genuinely gutted for Tinker (he was in all the magazines back in the day), but Kirt Voreis has shown us what can be done if you dust off the bad shit of the past and adapt to the new ways of promoting bikes in the new millennium.
I like the words of Jack Moir when he won the EWS overall: "It's not a bad f*** you to the people who stitched me up, is it?"
What I do know is it seems a lot of athletes struggled to transition from the "results mean everything" racer they may have been in the 90s to the "ambassador" of today.
In a lot of ways, racing is a lot easier, if you have the raw talent. Being an ambassador would be exhausting. A never ending churn of content, where you have to keep reinventing the formula to keep things fresh, interesting and engaging. Where I feel bad for Tinker is that never seemed to be what he signed up for. Then again, things change & shift in all facets of life. You never want to be caught as the proverbial film company in an increasingly digital world. (obscure reference). Its pretty obvious that unless you are winning races at a high level, nobody (literally nobody) cares about results. You can use racing for content, which is a cool angle, but otherwise, its just for you and your close friends.
As others have pointed out, $25K could literally field a team of 18-22ish year old up and comers. I know I could have stretched a free bike and $5-8K as a 19 year old to go to ALL the races, make content for free bla bla bla. It would have seemed amazing, as dumb as it sounds. Pretty hard to not put your budget toward something like that as opposed to a racer who acts as though everyone should know who he is despite doing very little in the sport over the last decade + (as legendary as he is...)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CUu-FcCF5QR/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Hey all,
Just wanted to introduce you to our new team manager, Walker Shaw!
Hopefully you've crossed paths with Walker before on the circuit or in the pub, but in case you haven't, he's a long-term friend of SCM and a super talented rider himself, having raced at the top level all over the globe since his junior years. Racing on the World Cup DH circuit as a privateer for many years means he already knows what riders need and can relate to the daily happenings on and off the hill, a huge bonus for us. More importantly though, his attitude and personality personifies what the UNION is all about, finding that balance between fun and racing at the top level.
Walker will be the UNION's main man on the ground and behind the scenes in regards to rider management, product queries, orders and managing at all events from here on in.
Stoked for 2022
This could be interesting....
Having watched Martin ride, he reminds me of a Nico-type rider where he is so good with wheel placement he would value precision over brute run-shit-over type technology (that I like
But yeah, totally guessing.
Pros are on another level, they don’t care about high pivot this and carbon that so I’m sure Maes will be fine wherever he ends up going next year.
What Forbidden are doing is a bit different. Or what Zerode was doing with the DH bike.
As for pros don't matter about the gear, maybe, but it seems that's not the right approach. Have a listen to Yoann Barelli's Wyn Masters podcast (he did two, not sure which one covers it more), he talks about riding the Grim Donut and how it would make sense to adapt the bike to the course they are running on a given weekend.
I suspect nobody does that because they want to sell bikes (as in win on sunday, sell on monday), but at least with DH it couldn't be THAT detrimental for the team to ride prototypes every weekend?
By the way, Mike Rose and all the guys on the Dirt team are all class acts and I had met Vanessa and Nigel Page two years before at Kaprun and they were the nicest people; they treated me like a friend, even though I just met them and was just a fan, who hitchhiked to the World. It's something I will never ever forget!
Damn, I miss Dirt so much! Much Love to all of the above!
Mx
Moreover, for the riders who are near the top, they could more effectively negotiate. I can see the argument by not knowing what you are negotiating "against" (amount), the company really is the house and you are the player (vegas reference). They have more information, and see more cards in a way. Maybe a good agent levels this to some degree?
I get its a bit messier than a ball sport, in that a player's statistics are harder to measure. EG, Wyn kind of sucks by top rung racing standards (context is important here; he's incredible) but is very valuable due to his presence, personality and eyeball pulling ability.
Ultimately, as awkward as it may be to have your salary/winnings out there for all to see, it seems it'd be to everyone's advantage to do so.
Just my $0.02.
Those guys are paid based on revenue they generate. Ticket sales, TV deals, etc.. Then come deals like clothing...It's been reported that Colin Kaspernik still has a 7 figure Nike deal..
End of the day, bike sales alone are going to get anyone a NBA sized paycheck..
However, I am suggesting, hiding salaries rider to rider in fact puts the rider at a disadvantage. Its the old Kramer in the coffee corporation office. "We'll give you free coffee for life and...." I"LL TAKE IT!!!
I've thought about it long and hard, and ultimately believe hiding salary information benefits the companies more than it does the rider. This is true in just about anything IMO.
I will agree, hiding the numbers does benefit the companies We see salary numbers on ball players because of salary caps.. That info is out there and everyone knows where every other team stands..
I wonder what the difference in checks looks like between a #1 and #2 rider on a team like the Syndicate? Are Greg and Luca getting the same deal?(Before any bonus for the Worlds win) Doubtful, but they both have the opportunity to get money from a gear company which is a luxury most riders on teams don't get in the MTB world. Would there be friction in under the tend if they knew the numbers? Or Loic and Finn?
If you think about it, most "individual sports " don't throw out numbers... I haven't seen anything on what Eli Tomac is getting paid on his new deal..
But yes, hiding salaries is only beneficial to the employers (okay, and mental health in some cases
Also, when talking about athlete salaries, the relevant part of this podcast is very much on topic: https://open.spotify.com/episode/54VCJ9YCLfXJkTYj4uO0mn
administrator!?
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/Santa-Cruz-Cannondale-Schwi…
all athletes in new meetings. "what would you say you do here?"
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