MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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1/4/2021 1:58am
It looks like this one is carbon, weren't the prototypes aluminium?
Primoz wrote:
Missed this post, the aluminium bike was the Shore. This one is a different bike. Different suspension layout, different geometry, different intentions 😉
I meant the prototypes of this dh bike.
Primoz
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1/4/2021 3:31am
Where did you see aluminium prototypes of this 'dh' bike? Smile
1/4/2021 5:21am
metadave wrote:
Pretty clean looking as well. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/02/10284/s1200_Screenshot_20210102_235947.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/02/10285/s1200_Screenshot_20210102_235956.jpg[/img]
Pretty clean looking as well.




It’ll be interesting to see the linkage up close on this bike cuz it honestly looks like a dual crown forbidden. And if they’re also coming out w a DH bike soon it makes me wonder if norco and forbidden are collaborating on something
Edthorne
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1/4/2021 5:31am
metadave wrote:
Pretty clean looking as well. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/02/10284/s1200_Screenshot_20210102_235947.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/02/10285/s1200_Screenshot_20210102_235956.jpg[/img]
Pretty clean looking as well.




It’ll be interesting to see the linkage up close on this bike cuz it honestly looks like a dual crown forbidden. And if they’re also coming...
It’ll be interesting to see the linkage up close on this bike cuz it honestly looks like a dual crown forbidden. And if they’re also coming out w a DH bike soon it makes me wonder if norco and forbidden are collaborating on something
I thought that one of the founders of forbidden had actually designed the old autumn hsp, and then left norco to start forbidden. I feel like it would be unlikely that he'd want to go back to helping them so soon and with the early success they've had
8
madsam9
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IT
1/4/2021 10:15am
Forbiddens also have a single pivot suspension layout, this one seems to use a Horst. And I'm not sure this is a full dh frame, earlier prototypes had water bottle mounts (maybe this one does as well but it's hard to tell) so it's probably the new Range
bstens
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Seattle, WA US
1/4/2021 10:30am
Maybe it's just a different link to extend travel?
1
1/4/2021 12:49pm Edited Date/Time 1/4/2021 12:50pm
Primoz wrote:
Where did you see aluminium prototypes of this 'dh' bike? Smile
I checked the old photos and it was carbon all along. Some time ago someone posted this, I don't remember the source.


1/4/2021 12:51pm
It’ll be interesting to see the linkage up close on this bike cuz it honestly looks like a dual crown forbidden. And if they’re also coming...
It’ll be interesting to see the linkage up close on this bike cuz it honestly looks like a dual crown forbidden. And if they’re also coming out w a DH bike soon it makes me wonder if norco and forbidden are collaborating on something
Old pic
rockchomper
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1/4/2021 12:54pm
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/30/10245/s1200_p5pb19573620.jpg[/img] New DH helmet from 100% ? It looks like they're Trajecta helmet but the visor says Aircraft 2 and they're are a few other differences!


New DH helmet from 100% ? It looks like they're Trajecta helmet but the visor says Aircraft 2 and they're are a few other differences!

mwolpin wrote:
That’s a hell of a catch! Definitely not the original Aircraft.
https://cambriabike.com/products/100-aircraft-2-full-face-helmet-2021

looks like this is confirmed! Just wish I could get a release date!
sunkidh
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1/4/2021 2:52pm Edited Date/Time 1/4/2021 3:06pm
Does anyone know, when the new TLD A3 will be available? Looks super nice.
google search link




1/4/2021 5:37pm
It’ll be interesting to see the linkage up close on this bike cuz it honestly looks like a dual crown forbidden. And if they’re also coming...
It’ll be interesting to see the linkage up close on this bike cuz it honestly looks like a dual crown forbidden. And if they’re also coming out w a DH bike soon it makes me wonder if norco and forbidden are collaborating on something
Old pic [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/04/10313/s1200_Screenshot_20200723_091148_Chrome.jpg[/img]
Old pic
Kinda sorta looks like the linkage on the Intense prototypes Gwinner and co. are using.
1/4/2021 7:36pm
sunkidh wrote:
Does anyone know, when the new TLD A3 will be available? Looks super nice. [url=https://www.google.si/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03YHZttBbjQgop1JY38-t82oHq9gg%3A1609799368849&source=hp&ei=yJbzX93QMYi5gweP76-ACA&q=tld+a3+helmet&oq=Tld+a3+&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBABGAAyBQgAEMsBMgYIABAWEB46BwgjEOoCECc6BAgjECc6BAgAEEM6CAgAELEDEIMBOgUIABCxAzoOCC4QsQMQgwEQxwEQowI6AggAOgsILhDHARCvARDLAVCoEFjWKmDlMmgBcAB4AIABpQGIAc8FkgEDNS4ymAEAoAEBsAEP&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp#imgrc=5U_0H9-oIxfs7M]google search link[/url] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/04/10316/s1200_18552085fc4a7b808ae70.06896576.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/04/10315/s1200_18552085fc4a7c25a2c96.84956326.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/04/10314/s1200_18552085fc4a7c5c494c5.80161794.jpg[/img]
Does anyone know, when the new TLD A3 will be available? Looks super nice.
google search link




Mid February
3
WheelBased
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-, CO US
1/5/2021 3:01pm
Hey everyone,

I just finished an article about SRAM's new brake rotor. They've created a 2-piece aluminum and stainless steel rotor without any fasteners. They're doing this by creating an aluminum core that bolts to the hub and then using a thermal spray process to apply liquid stainless steel to the outer portion of the rotor. This should be lighter and have better thermal properties compared to current rotors. It's actually kind of amazing. I haven't seen this one yet, so let me know if you have.

https://wheelbased.com/2021/01/05/bicycle-disc-brake-rotors-by-sram/
9
1/5/2021 3:55pm
WheelBased wrote:
Hey everyone, I just finished an article about SRAM's new brake rotor. They've created a 2-piece aluminum and stainless steel rotor without any fasteners. They're doing...
Hey everyone,

I just finished an article about SRAM's new brake rotor. They've created a 2-piece aluminum and stainless steel rotor without any fasteners. They're doing this by creating an aluminum core that bolts to the hub and then using a thermal spray process to apply liquid stainless steel to the outer portion of the rotor. This should be lighter and have better thermal properties compared to current rotors. It's actually kind of amazing. I haven't seen this one yet, so let me know if you have.

https://wheelbased.com/2021/01/05/bicycle-disc-brake-rotors-by-sram/
Spray welded huh?. Verrrrrry interesting.
1/5/2021 10:01pm
Curious to how these rotors resist warping, as one of the reasons using fasteners is to make a floating rotor. Unless the aluminium heat dissipation and thermal expansion properties are so that it isn't needed.
1/6/2021 12:45am
WheelBased wrote:
Hey everyone, I just finished an article about SRAM's new brake rotor. They've created a 2-piece aluminum and stainless steel rotor without any fasteners. They're doing...
Hey everyone,

I just finished an article about SRAM's new brake rotor. They've created a 2-piece aluminum and stainless steel rotor without any fasteners. They're doing this by creating an aluminum core that bolts to the hub and then using a thermal spray process to apply liquid stainless steel to the outer portion of the rotor. This should be lighter and have better thermal properties compared to current rotors. It's actually kind of amazing. I haven't seen this one yet, so let me know if you have.

https://wheelbased.com/2021/01/05/bicycle-disc-brake-rotors-by-sram/
Sram:” Hey Magura can I copy your Homework?”
Magura:”Sure just change it up a bit”
4
LLLLL
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IE
1/6/2021 12:49am
baronKanon wrote:
Curious to how these rotors resist warping, as one of the reasons using fasteners is to make a floating rotor. Unless the aluminium heat dissipation and...
Curious to how these rotors resist warping, as one of the reasons using fasteners is to make a floating rotor. Unless the aluminium heat dissipation and thermal expansion properties are so that it isn't needed.
I can’t imagine the SS layer will be very thick as spray welding isn’t a cheap process so I suspect this is a weight weeny product.
1
1/6/2021 12:50am
WheelBased wrote:
Hey everyone, I just finished an article about SRAM's new brake rotor. They've created a 2-piece aluminum and stainless steel rotor without any fasteners. They're doing...
Hey everyone,

I just finished an article about SRAM's new brake rotor. They've created a 2-piece aluminum and stainless steel rotor without any fasteners. They're doing this by creating an aluminum core that bolts to the hub and then using a thermal spray process to apply liquid stainless steel to the outer portion of the rotor. This should be lighter and have better thermal properties compared to current rotors. It's actually kind of amazing. I haven't seen this one yet, so let me know if you have.

https://wheelbased.com/2021/01/05/bicycle-disc-brake-rotors-by-sram/
Sram:” Hey Magura can I copy your Homework?”
Magura:”Sure just change it up a bit”
Magura and SRAM designs are miles away in regards to concept. SRAM has a solid aluminium rotor with stainless coating, Magura has a variation of a common floating rotor
1/6/2021 1:03am
LLLLL wrote:
I can’t imagine the SS layer will be very thick as spray welding isn’t a cheap process so I suspect this is a weight weeny product.
Probably road or XC, but it may or may not be suitable for general trail riding or privateers.
Primoz
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1/6/2021 2:52am Edited Date/Time 1/6/2021 2:54am
Phew, now that post #1000 is published, I can post again Smile

Regarding the Norco, it's a horst link, the Druid is a single pivot. Owen Pemberton is the Founder, CEO and design engineer of Forbidden and he was part of the AUrum HSP project. The druid design was a collaboration with
Alastair Beckett of Redburn design, who also did the Privateer bikes (I think it's no coincidence both have very steep seat tubes but very short top tubes...).

As for the Norco, like I said, the Aurum is still in the lineup as the DH bike.

As for Sram, it's actually relatively similar to what Shimano is doing regarding the sandwich construction, just achieved differently. And honestly it could all just be a patent to cover competitors off. For one thing I'd love to hear an expert regarding spray welding of stainless steel to aluminium. If nothing else the galvanic potential of aluminium and stainless steel is quite a bit apart. I wouldn't be surprised if these two metals were less than happy to be joined together?

There have been aluminium rotors in the past, but they were ceramic coated. And there have been aluminium rotors seen in the past, the first gen Lotus Elise had them, where they were used for lightness reasons. The facelift ditched them, most likely due to sourcing issues (cast iron rotors are supplied in huge quantities, I'm guessing it wasn't as easy to get a supplier both for the rotors and the pads. Continental (yeah, the tyre company - tyres are only ~30 % of the total revenue for the conglomerate) has suggested aluminium brake systems for EVs to prevent rust (EVs don't use brakes as much as ICE cars do, so the brakes are usually more rusty). So it appears to be possible to have straight aluminium rotors. For bikes the thickness is an issue as there's no way you'll stop anything with 2 mm of thickness. Given ~1/3 of density of aluminium you could go to almost three times the thickness, gaining a lot of stiffness with no weight penalty. Plus the specific heat (the amount of heat absorbed by the material) is roughly double per gram for aluminium than it is for stainless steel, plus the heat transfer factors are better - more heat can be absorbed at the same weight by aluminium and it is thrown away quicker.

What a thick aluminium rotor would require though is a wider brake caliper. And of course special brake pads as well.

Another point of contention would also likely be flatness. Steel is relatively hard, meaning it's possible to grind it to achieve certain dimensions. I'm not so sure what is possible with aluminium due to its softness, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be much harder to get it flat than it is to get steel to be flat.
6
1/6/2021 4:22am
Edthorne wrote:
On another note, I remember seeing on that other mtb site that ohlins should be releasing the aftermarket rxf38 in the first quarter of 2021. Does...
On another note, I remember seeing on that other mtb site that ohlins should be releasing the aftermarket rxf38 in the first quarter of 2021. Does anybody have any more info on it? I'd be very interested to see how it stacks up against the zeb/38/mezzer
No, as far as I know that is not going to happen. OEM only for at least a while. Talked to a Öhlins dealer
2
vinny4130
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1/6/2021 6:33am
It seems like the post processing is going to make for a flatter rotor than Ice-tec they always have some side to side deviation more so than a normal ss rotor. Maybe because the sram rotor is stamping venting after the bond the rotors would be surface ground like a standard one giving better flatness. It seems like a very good solution, if the bond is reliable.
1
Primoz
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1/6/2021 6:46am
Honestly if the rotor waves side to side it's not a problem as it will deform to fit the caliper anyway. Any variations in thickness will cause an issue as you'll have pulsating braking force. Even certain hole patterns caused vibrations during braking in the past.

It looks like it is possible to bond different metals, but yeah, the question is how strong that bond is. And how thick the SS coating will be? Shimano's stuff is relatively thin if I remember correctly. But yeah, the SS coated variant could probably be ground to thickness.
shreda
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1/6/2021 7:23am Edited Date/Time 1/6/2021 7:24am
New, completely redesigned Fox DPX2 range is coming for MY22
Edthorne
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1/6/2021 7:27am
Edthorne wrote:
On another note, I remember seeing on that other mtb site that ohlins should be releasing the aftermarket rxf38 in the first quarter of 2021. Does...
On another note, I remember seeing on that other mtb site that ohlins should be releasing the aftermarket rxf38 in the first quarter of 2021. Does anybody have any more info on it? I'd be very interested to see how it stacks up against the zeb/38/mezzer
Nico_Ofner wrote:
No, as far as I know that is not going to happen. OEM only for at least a while. Talked to a Öhlins dealer
That's a bit of a bummer although not entirely surprising. I had figured that since they had the dh38 already they'd be able to get a sc 38mm fork out quicker than a lot of other companies, but that might not really make sense with stress tests and all that.
1/6/2021 7:36am
Edthorne wrote:
On another note, I remember seeing on that other mtb site that ohlins should be releasing the aftermarket rxf38 in the first quarter of 2021. Does...
On another note, I remember seeing on that other mtb site that ohlins should be releasing the aftermarket rxf38 in the first quarter of 2021. Does anybody have any more info on it? I'd be very interested to see how it stacks up against the zeb/38/mezzer
Nico_Ofner wrote:
No, as far as I know that is not going to happen. OEM only for at least a while. Talked to a Öhlins dealer
Edthorne wrote:
That's a bit of a bummer although not entirely surprising. I had figured that since they had the dh38 already they'd be able to get a...
That's a bit of a bummer although not entirely surprising. I had figured that since they had the dh38 already they'd be able to get a sc 38mm fork out quicker than a lot of other companies, but that might not really make sense with stress tests and all that.
They could for sure, but they say it is just too stiff for Enduro or for regular customers at least. I believe only one of their Enduro racers is running it, Matt Stuttard.
2
1/6/2021 8:33am
shreda wrote:
New, completely redesigned Fox DPX2 range is coming for MY22
Tell me more
1/6/2021 7:01pm
Trp probably working on a new derailleur 👊🏼
w4s
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Verdi, NV US
1/6/2021 7:08pm
shreda wrote:
New, completely redesigned Fox DPX2 range is coming for MY22
Tell me more
Hopefully moar shimz!
1/6/2021 7:10pm
Trp probably working on a new derailleur 👊🏼 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/01/06/10334/s1200_Screenshot_20210107_035943_2.jpg[/img]
Trp probably working on a new derailleur 👊🏼
Or it’s just a non TRP derailleur and they’re covering it up
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