MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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baronKanon 4/17/2020 11:19pm
4/17/2020 11:19pm
Jrp wrote:
The HV aircan isn't great for progressive bikes because the air spring requires much more pressure to get enough support at sag and in early to...
The HV aircan isn't great for progressive bikes because the air spring requires much more pressure to get enough support at sag and in early to mid stroke (due to starting at higher leverage ratios). That higher spring rate then makes it difficult to use deeper travel.

Where as a linear bike that starts out with a lower leverage rate and requires much more end stroke support will benefit from the higher overall pressure build up whilst being able to remain sensitive in the early part of the stroke thanks to the higher negative volume

Thats been my experience with the Topaz anyway but everyone is unique and what works for me wont work for others
the HV air can will be better suited to progressive bikes to have a decent sag and be able to use the travel. if you have a linear bike, you end up with less sag to ensure not bottoming out if the spring is linear as well.
Jrp
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Jrp 4/18/2020 12:12am
4/18/2020 12:12am
Jrp wrote:
The HV aircan isn't great for progressive bikes because the air spring requires much more pressure to get enough support at sag and in early to...
The HV aircan isn't great for progressive bikes because the air spring requires much more pressure to get enough support at sag and in early to mid stroke (due to starting at higher leverage ratios). That higher spring rate then makes it difficult to use deeper travel.

Where as a linear bike that starts out with a lower leverage rate and requires much more end stroke support will benefit from the higher overall pressure build up whilst being able to remain sensitive in the early part of the stroke thanks to the higher negative volume

Thats been my experience with the Topaz anyway but everyone is unique and what works for me wont work for others
baronKanon wrote:
the HV air can will be better suited to progressive bikes to have a decent sag and be able to use the travel. if you have...
the HV air can will be better suited to progressive bikes to have a decent sag and be able to use the travel. if you have a linear bike, you end up with less sag to ensure not bottoming out if the spring is linear as well.
Yeah for sure if you want to run more sag then it’s great but personally I’m not fan of the way that makes my bike feel. The great thing about DVO is you can tune the bands in both positive and negative regardless of what air can you have so you can make any topaz work awesome for you and your bike. Having options is the dream
lev
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lev 4/18/2020 12:43am
4/18/2020 12:43am
I don’t know if this link has been made, but zebedee was a springy character in the Magic Roundabout kids tv show in the 70s

2
Dickscruttock 4/18/2020 3:47am
4/18/2020 3:47am
sharpy212 wrote:
Wonder if the new RS forks will be a lightweight spring instead of air?
It's going to be air still.
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sharpy212 4/18/2020 3:55am
4/18/2020 3:55am
sharpy212 wrote:
Wonder if the new RS forks will be a lightweight spring instead of air?
Dickscruttock wrote:
It's going to be air still.
Do you know more info about the fork? if you have something to say please share it with the class haha
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lev
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lev 4/18/2020 5:58am
4/18/2020 5:58am
sharpy212 wrote:
Wonder if the new RS forks will be a lightweight spring instead of air?
Dickscruttock wrote:
It's going to be air still.
Spill the beans....
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metadave
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metadave 4/18/2020 8:44pm
4/18/2020 8:44pm
sharpy212 wrote:
Wonder if the new RS forks will be a lightweight spring instead of air?
Dickscruttock wrote:
It's going to be air still.
lev wrote:
Spill the beans....

2
Zac_Youngson 4/18/2020 10:51pm
4/18/2020 10:51pm
mitch160 wrote:
The Rockshox Zeb on Sam Hill's Nukeproof Mega 290 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/04/17/9462/s1200_93363456_577409322869088_3782266523069322509_n.jpg[/img]
The Rockshox Zeb on Sam Hill's Nukeproof Mega 290
Nice to see rockshox use a different asthetic for this fork and the new SID, not a fan of how the current pike/lyrik forks look. Would be prime with a grey anodize crown like the boxxer.
1
sharpy212
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sharpy212 4/19/2020 4:09am
4/19/2020 4:09am
mitch160 wrote:
The Rockshox Zeb on Sam Hill's Nukeproof Mega 290 [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/04/17/9462/s1200_93363456_577409322869088_3782266523069322509_n.jpg[/img]
The Rockshox Zeb on Sam Hill's Nukeproof Mega 290
Zac_Youngson wrote:
Nice to see rockshox use a different asthetic for this fork and the new SID, not a fan of how the current pike/lyrik forks look. Would...
Nice to see rockshox use a different asthetic for this fork and the new SID, not a fan of how the current pike/lyrik forks look. Would be prime with a grey anodize crown like the boxxer.
Now that would be something nice! 👌🏼
Broken_spoke.photo 4/19/2020 6:36am
4/19/2020 6:36am
Zac_Youngson wrote:
Nice to see rockshox use a different asthetic for this fork and the new SID, not a fan of how the current pike/lyrik forks look. Would...
Nice to see rockshox use a different asthetic for this fork and the new SID, not a fan of how the current pike/lyrik forks look. Would be prime with a grey anodize crown like the boxxer.
In one of Nate Hill’s recent videos, he was riding with a guy that had a “Lyrik” with the boxxer colored crown. Wasn’t raw, looked to be the grey anodized like the dual crown forks. It also had a slightly different lower arch shape
Sonofbovril2 4/19/2020 12:29pm
4/19/2020 12:29pm
Jrp wrote:
The HV aircan isn't great for progressive bikes because the air spring requires much more pressure to get enough support at sag and in early to...
The HV aircan isn't great for progressive bikes because the air spring requires much more pressure to get enough support at sag and in early to mid stroke (due to starting at higher leverage ratios). That higher spring rate then makes it difficult to use deeper travel.

Where as a linear bike that starts out with a lower leverage rate and requires much more end stroke support will benefit from the higher overall pressure build up whilst being able to remain sensitive in the early part of the stroke thanks to the higher negative volume

Thats been my experience with the Topaz anyway but everyone is unique and what works for me wont work for others
I thought It was the opposite, don’t HV cans work better for progressive designs? That’s why the older Spez Enduro couldn’t run a HV can, because it’s a very linear design... or maybe I’m confused?
lev
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lev 4/21/2020 10:52am
4/21/2020 10:52am
3
Pavel_Repák 4/21/2020 12:14pm
4/21/2020 12:14pm
lev wrote:
Kind of a controversial opinion.
11
gibbon
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gibbon 4/21/2020 12:42pm
4/21/2020 12:42pm
lev wrote:
I'm calling bullsh1t.
3
Sir HC 4/24/2020 5:30am
4/24/2020 5:30am


Maxxis Hillbilly?
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Maaki36
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Maaki36 4/25/2020 7:13am
4/25/2020 7:13am
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future? I think i would prefer the looks of a 35mm dual crown compared to some totem like enduro fork (especially on those slack and filigrane carbon frames like mondrakers for example).
MXBREWSK
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MXBREWSK 4/25/2020 7:34am
4/25/2020 7:34am
Maaki36 wrote:
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future...
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future? I think i would prefer the looks of a 35mm dual crown compared to some totem like enduro fork (especially on those slack and filigrane carbon frames like mondrakers for example).
These have been out for awhile now, but good luck with finding a review of them online!! I am planning on these in the near future and will for sure be doing a review.
1
willsmooth18 4/25/2020 7:39am
4/25/2020 7:39am
Maaki36 wrote:
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future...
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future? I think i would prefer the looks of a 35mm dual crown compared to some totem like enduro fork (especially on those slack and filigrane carbon frames like mondrakers for example).
Since RS and Fox have just released those Totem-like single crown fors, I don't think so.

You know, the first thing a vast majority read on a MTB datasheet is the weight. And just the weight.
And basically two crowns are heavier than one, so that's not good for business.
1
bulletbass man 4/25/2020 8:38am
4/25/2020 8:38am
Maaki36 wrote:
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future...
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future? I think i would prefer the looks of a 35mm dual crown compared to some totem like enduro fork (especially on those slack and filigrane carbon frames like mondrakers for example).
willsmooth18 wrote:
Since RS and Fox have just released those Totem-like single crown fors, I don't think so. You know, the first thing a vast majority read on...
Since RS and Fox have just released those Totem-like single crown fors, I don't think so.

You know, the first thing a vast majority read on a MTB datasheet is the weight. And just the weight.
And basically two crowns are heavier than one, so that's not good for business.
I think the much bigger factor is compatibility. The 38 and Zeb is interchangeable with a 36/lyric on the same frame while a dual-crown isn't compatible with many frames in the long travel trail bike category. Also while those 38/zeb will not be ideal, it will still be useable on your tight, pedally home trails/stage transfers. A dual crown is going to be pretty awful climbing tight switchbacks in comparison.

I think we may see an update to boxxer/40 to allow for slightly lower travel for very specific frames designed for FR/Park. Especially with highly groomed trails becoming dominant in many bike parks. But It will be geared towards riders who want something heavier than a 38/zeb at the same travel range.

3
Philip_Rossetti 4/25/2020 9:08am
4/25/2020 9:08am
bulletbass man wrote:
I think the much bigger factor is compatibility. The 38 and Zeb is interchangeable with a 36/lyric on the same frame while a dual-crown isn't compatible...
I think the much bigger factor is compatibility. The 38 and Zeb is interchangeable with a 36/lyric on the same frame while a dual-crown isn't compatible with many frames in the long travel trail bike category. Also while those 38/zeb will not be ideal, it will still be useable on your tight, pedally home trails/stage transfers. A dual crown is going to be pretty awful climbing tight switchbacks in comparison.

I think we may see an update to boxxer/40 to allow for slightly lower travel for very specific frames designed for FR/Park. Especially with highly groomed trails becoming dominant in many bike parks. But It will be geared towards riders who want something heavier than a 38/zeb at the same travel range.

That would make a lot of sense. I can’t see RockShox keeping the Boxxer diameter at 35mm when the new flagship enduro fork will have 38mm ones.If I remember correctly they used to be only 32mm in diameter in the past which is unimaginable nowadays for a DH fork. Will it be 40mm though? I’m not sure, I think they’ll increase the diameter to 38mm on that as well. The Öhlins Dh fork also has 38mm stanchions and clearly it works. But I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
2
willsmooth18 4/25/2020 11:44am
4/25/2020 11:44am
Maaki36 wrote:
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future...
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future? I think i would prefer the looks of a 35mm dual crown compared to some totem like enduro fork (especially on those slack and filigrane carbon frames like mondrakers for example).
willsmooth18 wrote:
Since RS and Fox have just released those Totem-like single crown fors, I don't think so. You know, the first thing a vast majority read on...
Since RS and Fox have just released those Totem-like single crown fors, I don't think so.

You know, the first thing a vast majority read on a MTB datasheet is the weight. And just the weight.
And basically two crowns are heavier than one, so that's not good for business.
bulletbass man wrote:
I think the much bigger factor is compatibility. The 38 and Zeb is interchangeable with a 36/lyric on the same frame while a dual-crown isn't compatible...
I think the much bigger factor is compatibility. The 38 and Zeb is interchangeable with a 36/lyric on the same frame while a dual-crown isn't compatible with many frames in the long travel trail bike category. Also while those 38/zeb will not be ideal, it will still be useable on your tight, pedally home trails/stage transfers. A dual crown is going to be pretty awful climbing tight switchbacks in comparison.

I think we may see an update to boxxer/40 to allow for slightly lower travel for very specific frames designed for FR/Park. Especially with highly groomed trails becoming dominant in many bike parks. But It will be geared towards riders who want something heavier than a 38/zeb at the same travel range.

"highly groomed trails", I don't know where you ride, but those "highly groomed trails" are full of brake bumps just a week or two after season opening in my area.
200mm front are a welcome addition when you have to brake in those (especially in the steep).

I understand the point of a dual-crown being awful when climbing tight switchbacks.
But I don't think it's the point of an full enduro rig. When you say "enduro" I heard "a bike which can handle good ol' natural downhills full of HUGE obstacles, or bikeparks, and doing seated climbs on fireroads". There are switchbacks in EWS yes. But a nose-turn or a scandi-flick is the same no matter the quantity of crowns I guess.
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Big Bird
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Big Bird 4/25/2020 11:57am
4/25/2020 11:57am
willsmooth18 wrote:
"highly groomed trails", I don't know where you ride, but those "highly groomed trails" are full of brake bumps just a week or two after season...
"highly groomed trails", I don't know where you ride, but those "highly groomed trails" are full of brake bumps just a week or two after season opening in my area.
200mm front are a welcome addition when you have to brake in those (especially in the steep).

I understand the point of a dual-crown being awful when climbing tight switchbacks.
But I don't think it's the point of an full enduro rig. When you say "enduro" I heard "a bike which can handle good ol' natural downhills full of HUGE obstacles, or bikeparks, and doing seated climbs on fireroads". There are switchbacks in EWS yes. But a nose-turn or a scandi-flick is the same no matter the quantity of crowns I guess.
It's really not an issue climbing with a double/tripple. I did for years and never felt a need to switch back to single crowns.
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gibbon
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gibbon 4/25/2020 12:55pm
4/25/2020 12:55pm
Maaki36 wrote:
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future...
Do you think that with all those big Stanchion enduro forks coming we will see some kind of dual crown enduro forks in the near future? I think i would prefer the looks of a 35mm dual crown compared to some totem like enduro fork (especially on those slack and filigrane carbon frames like mondrakers for example).
Mojo Rising were doing a triple clamp conversion for 36's.Not sure if they got to production though.
2
thejake
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thejake 4/25/2020 1:38pm
4/25/2020 1:38pm
I have a MRP Bartlett and it is the best fork I have owned. Stays up in its travel and feels very plush. I really like having a direct mount stem. I have no idea what the weight is I know my size large Evil Insurgent with the Bartlett, coil shock, DD casing tires and cush core front and rear is 35lbs, which is pretty good considering it’s a sturdy build. Only complaint I have is the crown stance is a little narrow which does make some tight turns a little difficult. A Fox 40 has a much wider crown, not sure why MRP did that. I think with a wider crown it would never be an issue. It’s currently only an issue on the really tight and steeper switchbacks when I’m tired. If I’m fresh and can put a little more muscle into the bike I can make that occasional corner work. I would highly recommend. I’m not really sure why the bike industry isn’t pushing more dual crown forks, maybe waiting a few years so it can be an “innovation.”
2
bulletbass man 4/25/2020 1:39pm
4/25/2020 1:39pm
willsmooth18 wrote:
Since RS and Fox have just released those Totem-like single crown fors, I don't think so. You know, the first thing a vast majority read on...
Since RS and Fox have just released those Totem-like single crown fors, I don't think so.

You know, the first thing a vast majority read on a MTB datasheet is the weight. And just the weight.
And basically two crowns are heavier than one, so that's not good for business.
bulletbass man wrote:
I think the much bigger factor is compatibility. The 38 and Zeb is interchangeable with a 36/lyric on the same frame while a dual-crown isn't compatible...
I think the much bigger factor is compatibility. The 38 and Zeb is interchangeable with a 36/lyric on the same frame while a dual-crown isn't compatible with many frames in the long travel trail bike category. Also while those 38/zeb will not be ideal, it will still be useable on your tight, pedally home trails/stage transfers. A dual crown is going to be pretty awful climbing tight switchbacks in comparison.

I think we may see an update to boxxer/40 to allow for slightly lower travel for very specific frames designed for FR/Park. Especially with highly groomed trails becoming dominant in many bike parks. But It will be geared towards riders who want something heavier than a 38/zeb at the same travel range.

willsmooth18 wrote:
"highly groomed trails", I don't know where you ride, but those "highly groomed trails" are full of brake bumps just a week or two after season...
"highly groomed trails", I don't know where you ride, but those "highly groomed trails" are full of brake bumps just a week or two after season opening in my area.
200mm front are a welcome addition when you have to brake in those (especially in the steep).

I understand the point of a dual-crown being awful when climbing tight switchbacks.
But I don't think it's the point of an full enduro rig. When you say "enduro" I heard "a bike which can handle good ol' natural downhills full of HUGE obstacles, or bikeparks, and doing seated climbs on fireroads". There are switchbacks in EWS yes. But a nose-turn or a scandi-flick is the same no matter the quantity of crowns I guess.
My local enduro series is split 50/50 between DH tracks at bike parks and trail centers that have a lot of climbs/flats (some of which are quite technical). Many share the same tracks as XC races and are just broken up to point down as much as possible. Most racers use one bike and are riding trail tires for some races and DH tires for others.

As far as bike parks I mostly ride at Blue Mountain (US) and take trips to mountain creek and a few others. I agree I'd prefer a full DH rig (though I don't own one currently), but there is a big if not a bigger market for 165-180 FR/park rigs as there is for super travel enduro bikes. Most I think would lean towards single crown, and the ones who want a dual crown I don't think will be too weight concerned.

My favorite place to ride is Launch bike park (RIP) and I'm building up a rig to better handle riding there than my hightower. As much as I'd love to go full DH I can take twice as many laps if I can pedal up the hill rather than push. Sure plenty of others are in a similiar boat of wanting a DH rig but needing something a little more versatile since they can't afford both.
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Maaki36
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Maaki36 4/25/2020 1:40pm
4/25/2020 1:40pm
willsmooth18 wrote:
Since RS and Fox have just released those Totem-like single crown fors, I don't think so. You know, the first thing a vast majority read on...
Since RS and Fox have just released those Totem-like single crown fors, I don't think so.

You know, the first thing a vast majority read on a MTB datasheet is the weight. And just the weight.
And basically two crowns are heavier than one, so that's not good for business.
bulletbass man wrote:
I think the much bigger factor is compatibility. The 38 and Zeb is interchangeable with a 36/lyric on the same frame while a dual-crown isn't compatible...
I think the much bigger factor is compatibility. The 38 and Zeb is interchangeable with a 36/lyric on the same frame while a dual-crown isn't compatible with many frames in the long travel trail bike category. Also while those 38/zeb will not be ideal, it will still be useable on your tight, pedally home trails/stage transfers. A dual crown is going to be pretty awful climbing tight switchbacks in comparison.

I think we may see an update to boxxer/40 to allow for slightly lower travel for very specific frames designed for FR/Park. Especially with highly groomed trails becoming dominant in many bike parks. But It will be geared towards riders who want something heavier than a 38/zeb at the same travel range.

willsmooth18 wrote:
"highly groomed trails", I don't know where you ride, but those "highly groomed trails" are full of brake bumps just a week or two after season...
"highly groomed trails", I don't know where you ride, but those "highly groomed trails" are full of brake bumps just a week or two after season opening in my area.
200mm front are a welcome addition when you have to brake in those (especially in the steep).

I understand the point of a dual-crown being awful when climbing tight switchbacks.
But I don't think it's the point of an full enduro rig. When you say "enduro" I heard "a bike which can handle good ol' natural downhills full of HUGE obstacles, or bikeparks, and doing seated climbs on fireroads". There are switchbacks in EWS yes. But a nose-turn or a scandi-flick is the same no matter the quantity of crowns I guess.
that's basically what I thought... I mean if you look at the trend of the bikes that are ridden in the EWS at the moment, they are't even made for tight switchbacks on the downhills.
2
MXBREWSK
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MXBREWSK 4/25/2020 3:12pm
4/25/2020 3:12pm
thejake wrote:
I have a MRP Bartlett and it is the best fork I have owned. Stays up in its travel and feels very plush. I really like...
I have a MRP Bartlett and it is the best fork I have owned. Stays up in its travel and feels very plush. I really like having a direct mount stem. I have no idea what the weight is I know my size large Evil Insurgent with the Bartlett, coil shock, DD casing tires and cush core front and rear is 35lbs, which is pretty good considering it’s a sturdy build. Only complaint I have is the crown stance is a little narrow which does make some tight turns a little difficult. A Fox 40 has a much wider crown, not sure why MRP did that. I think with a wider crown it would never be an issue. It’s currently only an issue on the really tight and steeper switchbacks when I’m tired. If I’m fresh and can put a little more muscle into the bike I can make that occasional corner work. I would highly recommend. I’m not really sure why the bike industry isn’t pushing more dual crown forks, maybe waiting a few years so it can be an “innovation.”
Thx for the info, as I haven't seen any reviews online for the Bartlett just their single crown with the same dampening system that does rate well in testing. I was considering the FOX 49er and reducing travel on it, but it just seems like too much of a PITA to go through that, but it is wider to allow the extra turning radius you discussed. My method for reducing the travel on the Bartlett is simple, put 20-30mm of dampers on the air shaft and slide the tubes up in the clamps 20mm and this would give me the 160-150mm of travel I am looking for(and also allow for easy modification back to higher travel in the future). This wouldn't really change the air chambers and the dampers would keep the fork seals from hitting the bottom clamp on g-outs. The dampers would also create an extra bottoming system to go along with the air chambers, best of both worlds.
1
grinch
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grinch 4/25/2020 7:49pm
4/25/2020 7:49pm
Crowns/stanchions should all be wider apart. I can see both enduro bikes and emtb going that way. Its needed for climbing and for the fat downtubes on emtb's tl get appropriate turning radius. Shouldnt add much weight being another inch wider. Just hope it wouldnt create another hub standard
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