Transmission - Mechanical Edition

Fascinating.  Thanks for sharing.  Any experience with durability compared to GX and X01, especially on mid powered e-bikes?  Transmission has been out long enough that there should be some anecdotal evidence by now.

Well, 9 days of bike park riding appears to have killed my fancy XO Transmission derailleur. Scratch all that stuff I said about reliability, I killed this one too! Thanks to KROE I'm going to try this Luddite Transmission idea. I already have the T-type parts and an XO shifter and found an XO derailleur on sale and I really like the idea of ditching the batteries and bluetooth. I also ordered the B bolt upgrade for my other bikes with GX drivetrains too so thanks for that idea.

Vital forums FTW

Why one shift at the time only with Garbaruk?

It gets overwhelmed and pulling multiple shifts when under (some) power the chain can skip and be thrown down towards the small cogs. It doesn't mesh as nicely when doing multiple shifts.

A 10-50T X01 cassette didn't have this problem if I remember correctly, but on the other hand we know Transmission spaces out shifts quite a bit to do this same delay I mentioned is required by the Garbaruk cassette. Obviously I'm running a cable actuated (X01) derailleur, which means I can pull three or four shifts with one movement of the thumb. Running an eBike single click shifter would help this for example.

I wanted to get that but I’ll stick with everything eagle and shimano cassette for the proper cassette spacing then 

Um... Garbaruk has an xd and a microspline version of the cassette. And they said (I asked) they are not interchangeable as the spacings are different between the two. Therefore "sticking to everything eagle and shimano cassette" will in fact not give you proper cassette spacing.

Interesting, visually they look the same

i can say that eagle cable drivetrain with shimano cassette works great

no spacing problem or anything 

Just getting this back on the radar as there is some new interest

I'd love to hear a real life review of Eagle 90, I'm considering it for my next ebike.

I can chime in here on this one.  I just took gx axs transmission off of my trail bike in favor of eagle 90.  I retained the XS1275 cassette and the x01 chain that I was running previously and replaced the controller and derailleur for eagle 90 parts.  FWIW, I am running a 53mm chainline crankset and chainring on this bike.  From my experience with several bikes, there is not a shift quality difference with 53 vs 55 chainline on transmission.  

Overall, I'm happy with eagle 90 and impressed with it.  The shift quality is pretty much on par with gx axs transmission, maybe slightly less reliable/accurate, but not in an overwhelmingly bad way.  There is just a touch more slop to the shifts and as a result, the engagement of the next gear you are shifting to.  If you had never experienced a fresh and correct install of gx/x01 transmission, you'd never know that there was something slightly "better" available and it would be a non-thought.  

My biggest gripe is honestly the shifter.  I'm a bit of a shifter snob... I always felt like an x01 shifter was mandatory with eagle groupsets previously.  The GX shifter obviously worked fine, but the feel/accuracy of the x01 shifter was so much better that i felt it was not worth it to skimp.  That being said, the c90 shifter is worse then even a gx eagle mechanical shifter.  The feel is light on upshifts, but the throw is too long, and there is noticeable slop in the shifts.  The ergonomics of the shifter are also not great as it's chunkier and doesn't play overly nice with non sram/matchmaker brakes.  For example, I have TRP DHR Evos on this particular bike and it sucks to get any setup that is workable, even then it's mediocre at best.  

I think overall it's a great drivetrain... I just really wish they provided an x01 level shifter.  I think I will stick with it long term as I'm really liking having a bike in my fleet with no batteries on it.  However the shifter is borderline a deal braker for me.  I could see opting for an x01 eagle shifter and madrone jab derailleur long term.  Hopefully ratio technology or someone will come out with a shifter mod to get an x01 eagle shifter to work with it.  

Ratio technology for the Eagle 90 derailleur? Madrone already works with an X01 shifter on T-type transmissions if I'm not mistaken...

I just keep praying that ratio is going to come out with a cam or replacement part that allows the usage of an eagle shifter with c90.  That won't likely happen, but won't stop me from trying to make it materialize with my mind juice.  

Yes it does. 

I have a Madrone derailleur but w/ XT 10-52 cassette, XTR Chain and xtr shifter (247 cam) and it works flawless!

I went from XO Transmission to 90. I love it and find the ergonomics way better than the pod shifter which I sometimes shifted the wrong way. 

I’m not a shifter snob and find the 90 shifter perfectly fine. I literally never think about it while riding. Hopefully it plays well with my Dominions once I have time to swap out the Mavens. 

Anyone had any warranty issues with 70/90 parts? Just got a new bike w/ 70 derailleur/shifter in the shop. If the shifting works in the harder gears it wants to throw the chain over the largest cog occasionally. SRAM is sending a replacement derailleur, but maybe it could be the shifter, too much cable throw in certain gears.

If only there was a way to limit the derailleur travel, say with a small screw, in case things weren't operating perfectly. Oh well, maybe in version 3 or 4. </sarcasm>

In the market for a new drivetrain for my nomad but while I would have always bought XO  drivetrains for smoother shifter I don’t particularly  want batteries which has pushed me in the direction of the 90 drivetrain. Something caught my eye while I was shopping though, shimano xt 12sp cable drivetrains for an absolute steal. The madrone derailleur with my current xo 12sp shifter and a new transmission cassette is an option too though a pricey approach. I haven’t rode shimano since the old 11sp 11-46 cassette, which to be honest put me off shimano completely but at the price of the 12sp xt maybe it’s worth a try. Does the shimano still compete in durability though?

I guess it depends on what you mean by durability. The Shimano stuff is so cheap (derailleurs and cassettes specifically), durability isn't as big of a concern, and the performance doesn't degrade as you go down to Deore, the weight just goes up. The Shimano 12sp chains are very prone to corrosion unless you are getting XTR/DA chains that have extra plating.

I've been on X01 drivetrains (two separate setups) since 2019 and ran a GX Eagle setup for a year prior (and 1x11 X1 before that). Building a parts bin special at first for a friend, we got some cheap wheels with a Microspline hub, so we went with the XT drivetrain.

As far as I know he's happy with it (he has NX on his e-bike), but after about 3 years now, even after a rebuild, the clutch doesn't seem to be doing much or actually it's doing too much - it's sticky and there are cases where his chain is flopping around a bit. Not a problem riding offroad, as suspension movement does free up the clutch, but still.

As far as I'm concerned, I really don't like the shifter feel of Shimano stuff. I last ran Shimano back in 2007 when I still raced XC, that was XT with an XTR derailleur. I do love the cassette ratio that Shimano does, no weird jumps between gears (42-52 Sram Eagle and the 36-44 of the Transmission). I ran a 10-50 cassette on the previous bike and then went with the Garbaruk cassette for the current X01 iteration (32-37-44-52, so all smooth transitions), but yeah, for off the shelf, official stuff, Shimano has Sram beat on ratios I'd say.

But yeah, as far as I'm concerned, the proof is in the pudding I'd say - I waited to see what Transmission would be like back in 2023, seeing it's electric only I was seriously considering Shimano, but then calmer heads prevailed and I just bought a new X01 shifter and derailler. The old one survived 5 years and almost 400k vertical meters of ascending (and probably >500k descending), so I know it's robust and reliable. Building a new bike now, honestly, not sure, depends on the pricing. Madrone's Jab does look good, on the other hand X01 is still being sold.

I just swapped out gx axs for eagle 90 and the improvement is shocking. The feel of the axs pod vs a real mechanical shifter is night and day for me.

I was charmed by how genuinely impressive the new axs stuff is as a complete package but the shifters really let it down. Going back to mechanical highlights how important good ergonomics and sensory feedback are at shifter end.
 

This is where my brain is going, sometimes I buy the better stuff but I run it into the ground because it was expensive, maybe for the last quarter of its life performance is sub par. Maybe it’s easier to buy the cheaper stuff and just swap it out when performance starts to drop off and not sweat it too much

Currently have about 5 rides on XX transmission cranks with 55mm chainline, 28t wolf tooth 8 bolt ring, XO transmission cassette, XO chain, 90 derailleur and shifter. 

Coming off one bike with XTR 12 speed setup and another with XO/GX Eagle cable driven. Both setups work very very well and are very durable. I can shift them both under full load without issue as long as I go one click at a time and I do this all the time. 

Overall, its not a revelation or a massive improvement in shifting over either the XTR or the Eagle setup. It shifts fine up and down the cassette under load, maybe a little cleaner than my worn in stuff, but not a game changer here for me at least.  

Shifter feel is fine for me. Not necessarily better or worse than XO Eagle or XTR, just different, and it works well. I wish the shifts up the cassette were a little lighter action, but its not a big deal. The downshifting into smaller cogs is actually a pleasant surprise because its is smooth and very light action. I like it. When I'm focusing on the trail, this shifter is not something I ever think about because it just works. One thing worth noting- my XO Eagle shifter had like 10000 miles on it. How many shifts? A few hundred thousand? A million? Its never missed a beat. I wonder if this thing will last like that. 

The gear spacing of the Transmission cassette is nice- like the XTR, with a more usable second and third largest cog than the Eagle cassette spacing. No creaks or noises from the cassette (unlike the XTR cassette, which needs lube on the rivets every 5-10 rides to keep it quiet.) 

The 90 derailleur has less chain slap and chain noise. This is probably what I notice the most and is an improvement over prior setups. The chain stays calm in rough terrain when descending. Maybe that giant low hanging cage and its powerful clutch are keeping the chain tighter. Thats what it feels like at least. 

The 90 derailleur weighs about 100gms more. Not sure I can feel this per say, but it is a beefy unit. Weight matters at high altitude, so this is a con for me. Its also weight right on the rear axle- sprung weight. There is the possibility of shaving about 50 grams with an XX cage setup, but thats $150-200, so its gonna wait. 

I've read that this setup sticks out farther than Eagle or Shimano. So far this hasn't been an issue and I have ridden some chunky and rocky trails where clearance is very tight. I also have not had issue with the long cage taking hits and I ride some nasty loose rock terrain sometimes. 

Setup is easy with the Sram vids. Once you learn the system it makes sense and works well. 

Would I feel compelled to buy this to replace my good condition and well working Eagle or Shimano setup? I wouldn't. But if it comes on a new bike or ya happen to get a deal on it and you need a new drivetrain and wanna stick with cables, it works well.