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"Commercially Viable" means you can bring an item to market expecting to profit. DH bikes are an incredibly small share of the bike market which can make it tough to be commercially viable. So much so that many bike companies see DH racing primarily as a marketing activity. For instance I don't think there were ever production versions of the Yeti rail bike, Hyper's freeride bike, the Honda bike, or Herbold's suspension Miyata. I meant my comment to relate to prototypes generally, not specifically to the Devinci you mentioned.

Prototypes are for testing. Sometimes the conclusion of a test is that it's not a better bike, or not commercially viable. So you don't put it into production.

lol it's a pivot

Pivot says they change kinematics on each size, but I don't think they manufacture a different set of links to do it, I think they just shift mounting points on the front triangle: https://www.pivotcycles.com/en-us/technology/size-specific-design-and-r… Pivot says: "For bikes where chainstay length varies with size, suspension kinematics naturally change. However, we modify pivot points to ensure optimal curves for each size. We optimize the kinematics for each frame size based on a rider’s center of gravity and average saddle height per size to ensure consistent suspension kinematics for every size rider." Other than that, the only other company I can think...

My understanding is that manufacturers mostly build carbon frames from the ground up (as opposed to being assembled from pre-manufactured tubes, a la Atherton Bikes), and that layup patterns don't vary much or at all between sizes ( with a few notable exceptions). But that might be old wisdom on my part, and perhaps the industry is more sophisticated in the way it designs layup patternds now. Maybe everyone is tuning thickness and layup pattern between sizes, but only a few brands are explicitly advertising it. Here's an example of Unno's layup for the Dash 130:

Show us on the doll where the X2 touched you.

Thanks for running these numbers so we could nerd out. It's super interesting. Respectfully, I don't think the differences in anti-squat or anti-rise represented in the graphs could be felt by anyone on the trail. Maaaaaybe a dedicated in-house suspension tester at one of the brands could tell a difference between 138% AS and 134% AS at full-travel, or between 85% AR and 78% AR at sag, but those are really small differences in practice. Anti-squat and Anti-rise are already hard parameters to isolate and feel out on the trail, and it takes pretty big differences in those numbers to...

dude, go outside and ride your bike!

I agree. I compared the S2 (photos are from S2) to the S4 with a quick Matlab script. Obviously if the chainstay and seatstays grow (red line), the leverage ratio changes and so does the travel. As you said, if you move the BB forward (yellow line), the changes in kinematic are somewhat minor, but considerable. This is assuming the rocker links are the same. Also not specific to the Reya, applies to all bikes with significant changes in rear centre. I wonder if @CascadeComponents could chime in.

Seat tube angles are independent of this (and can always be size specific anyways). 100% it is the bottom bracket that moves (you could also visualize it as just moving all of the frame pivot points rearward at the same time). It is the same as what Norco has done forever on most of their bikes. The only bikes where this technique falls apart are BB concentric linkages.

A lot of people use these kinds of bikes for XC races. Some races like XCOs probably no one carries anything. Other races like Moab Rocks probably most people are carrying something on at least one of the days because the risk of a flat tire is so high racing mostly blind with XC tires in Moab. Other races like BCBR require you to carry certain things (but they don’t enforce it). The big advantage of the on bike storage vs just having everything in your jersey pocket/camelbak is it helps keep you cooler, which keeps your performance up. Like...

Honestly, the Reya is the first XC bike that I really, really want to try as a 6'3" individual. I feel like that jack nichelson nodding meme as I work my way down the geo chart on the XL. Edit: Can we also agree that peak bike industrial design is a straight top tube that aligns directly with the seat tube... connecting the top of the head tube to the rear axle with an un-interrupted straight line?

Here you go, the new Reya is officially official now: https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/forbidden-launches-reya.

New 40 has dropped https://ridefox.com/pages/fox-40 38 next week.

A few points that I consider: if you follow the fc/rc convos most riders who are saying they need a longer CS are taller riders. The debate has mostly ended up with a desire for proportional stays, not necessarily longer stays overall. I think that mediums tend to ride pretty darn well from what I hear, and I think the ratio will probably attest to that… From a business perspective i kinda have to applaud them. They seem to understand where they have an opportunity not only overall but even down to a size-specific market share opportunity. Smaller sized frames...

My only gripe with that reya, I have to say, are the colors. The gray is kinda boring and the "golden brown" is a little underwhelming aswell. I hoped for somethin more poppy...like pink or blue or some green... maybe the brown goes more to yellow/orange!? I feels like it is color-coded for kashima. And the pricetag is rediculous. Even for a butique brand like forbidden. Transmission 90, Select+ suspension and own-/off-brand stuff for 7,4k€ is insane. You don't even get a motor with it... Only sensible thing is frameset I think.

chefs kiss of a reply Anyways, I am kind of bummed the reya comes with a 34sl instead of a 36sl on the fox build to be honest. But outside of that it looks killer. Though I guess I am also shocked they came out with a fox build after dropping that as a build option for the last 3-4 years. I wish they would get supernoughts back in stock....

It’s almost as if the chainstays are proportional…