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I have a bunch of 35mm bars of varying heights and stems so its what i stick with because i can try different configurations on my bike. I bought a used bike two years ago that had 31.8. It was fine. I think my only defining metric for bars is a 9° back sweep. I bought some 8° back-sweep bars and my wrists were not happy at the end of the day. I normally ride with 770mm bars and i wonder if i could have made these work at 750mm.
Were they the exact same bars but with 1* less sweep? Highly doubt it wasn’t some other variable like stiffness
I wonder what the bend tolerance is like 🙂
Didn’t even consider that… Doubt it’s inside of a degree, haha!
Not the exact same bars. Same width, different rise. My current bars are same rise, width, and 9° sweep. Theyre all alloy bars so im not sure how much stiffness varies. I like ethirteen and pnw bars
Huge amount of variance in stiffness
I'm on a 31.8mm Spank Vibrocore bar to try to get rid of the hand pain from falling on scree rock on janky DH in the 2000's race era.
It feels like the harshest bar I've ever had & I though they were supposed to be the most compliant.
If I could convince @OneUp to let me try their carbon AND alloy bars back to back, I'd pull trigger on their bar/stem/grip combo to try 35mm. I have a tough time believing 35mm can take the tenderness out of my palms I feel with all the rigid bars. I'd really like a bar with flex with all the rooty stuff I ride in Pisgah. Hands go numb.
I wear a size 10 glove & fatter grips that people use to "damp" are too big making my grip fade. So squishy grips aren't the easy choice for me.
The Vibrocore bars are supposed to reduce vibration, but counterintuitively, that doesn't necessarily equate to more flex. If you think of a tuning fork, it vibrates/resonates after being struck. Now imagine sticking a piece of soft foam between the legs of the tuning fork and striking it again. The vibration/resonation will be hugely deadened. That's essentially what the Vibrocore foam is doing in the bar, but that sort of high frequency vibration is already pretty well damped by our grips, so I struggle to see how much it can really help. Pinkbike recently did a test of handlbars ability to damp vibration, but the significance is still a little unclear to me, but it might be of value if your concern is vibration induced nerve damage.
From what you described though, you're looking for more compliance, in terms of deflection in the handlebar under a given load. Vital obviously did a small backyard flex test in the video at the beginning of this thread, but Bikerumor did a larger one in a lab and the results were pretty interesting. The most flexible bars were the Roost titanium, but the ProTaper A50 AL was quite close to it, and way less expensive. Relevant to your situation though, is the fact that the A50 AL has substantially more flex than either the Carbon or Aluminum OneUp bars. Note that higher rise bars generally have more flex, so not all ProTapers (or any other brand in varying rises) are created equal, but in a pinch you could pull a few spacers from under your stem, or even flip your stem, if the higher rise bars have the flex you want but put your riding position higher than you want. Here is the link to their test: https://bikerumor.com/does-handlebar-compliance-make-a-difference-faction-bike-studio-blind-test/
I hope that is helpful info for you. I kind of want to order some of those Answer bars for myself and then use some spray foam in them to potentially add some damping too. Yes, I know Vibrocore is a special high tech foam, but if one wants a bar other than a Spank, then I don't think it will hurt to try...unless it explodes your carbon bar from internal pressure!
Hugely helpful for me. I have been wanting some flexible 50 rise bars so you delivered that info perfectly here
So I'm looking squarely at that A25 thanks to your post. But it's because I'm gonna be cutting to 780mm & losing some flex from ANY bar.
Would have been more real world if they'd actually done what most of us do by cutting to length after the initial test & posting flex once cut to 780mm & 760mm.
Talked with an industry fella I trust & he said at 760, he lost a lot of flex on a Ti bar.
Yeah, losing flex after cutting down wide bars is a thing. I remember a few years back, Jesse Melamed was running old Easton bars with the logos taped over because at his preferred width (750? 740?) they felt better than any of his sponsors' bars cut down. I appreciate that the latest versions of OneUps are available as 760/35 rise... too bad they came out right after I built up my last bike.
Also, from what I remember from both the PB and BR flex testing, the higher rise bars usually have more flex than lower rise from the same brand/model. Plus higher rise bars with fewer spacers look cooler than short bars and a pile of spacers.
I think grips are best place to handle vibrations, rather than the bar itself. A good shaped grip like the Ergon GDH that the Canyon DH riders & Vali developed goes a long ways towards damping chatter while maintaining control. The forthcoming OneUp Jackson signature grip looks really similar and should be great also.
I’m moving to 31.8 , my wrists are epically destroyed and want flex to take a little load off
Kinda late here, but I also struggle a bit with hand pain because of a broken knuckle on my ring finger like 15 years ago.
I don’t know what your injury is, but I recently tried the SQlab 70X 2.0 grips and was very pleasantly surprised. I’ve always been kind of skeptical of ergonomic grips but these actually seem pretty cool. They just sort of feel a bit more locked in without gripping extra.
are these the new bars we might see?
maybe some 40mm rise 7 backsweep burgtecs
scope the bar label
also do you think they'll run 31.8 or 35s? I feel like burgtec was mostly 35 for longest time and most models but some running 31.8 now
1. Left Crushed/torn brachioradialis in forearm - Rolled my car on it at 16. Ended my ability to ride moto at any intensity
2. Right Torn UCL(skiers/birders thumb) - age 23 no more Grip Shift
3. Right Navicular/scaphoid - age 25 - no more push ups
4. Right - age 51 - Barretts fracture base of thumb
4. Massive smashed/bruised palms from racing DH for decades & always catching myself on my hands in rocks
Left forearm goes numb on most any trail ride.
Palms hurt like heck from roots/rocks/chatter from all the falls
Thumb aches pretty bad from any jarring.
So I never have noticed chatter or vibrations being an issue. Just the constant impacts of the bar hating my paws.
Glad that info was helpful! Yeah, regarding cutting bars leading to increased stiffness, Race Face said that their testing showed a 24% increase when cutting an 800mm down to 760mm. I also saw that Merida did testing that showed about a 10% increase in stiffness for every 20mm reduction in width, which works out to be pretty close to the RF figures. Given that, it seems like it should be relatively easy to extrapolate how stiff a given cut-down bar like the ProTaper will be vs. a model from a different company that offers a "native" 760mm width, assuming the 760mm bar is in the test. And props to those companies who are thinking about this stuff and offering native 760s!
For rough natural terrain, like the idea of bar flex reducing the peak loading and overall loading to the hands and arms, and my only hesitation is that the bar is basically undamped (unless you're talking about a Fasst-Flexx bar with pivots and elastomers). If you are hitting sharp impacts like rocks or roots, I think the natural rebound frequency of the bar is probably a decent fit to the frequency of the bumps so that that the bar can take the sting out of the hit and then spring back on the backside of the bump. Where it seems like the flex could potentially be a problem is for longer duration impacts like landing from a jump. If you look at the super slow-mo vids like the Pinkbike "Huck to flat" videos, you can see the bar bouncing back and forth 3 or more times while landing a single jump, all while the suspension (and riders arms and legs) are still compressing (I'm going to guess they're maybe bouncing at 10-20Hz). I'm not sure that additional oscillation like is helpful, as you can see the riders forearms sort of quivering back and forth with each bounce of the bars. The same goes for the tires, and the fork's fore/aft flex, but the interaction of everything gets pretty complicated.
From the additional reading I've done, it's the high frequency vibration (50Hz+) that is most likely to cause nerve and vascular degeneration in the hands, like what people working with chainsaws and other similar equipment get. Those vibrations tend to be absorbed immediately by the hand tissues before getting to the forearm, which is why the damage is localized. Lower frequency, higher amplitude stuff (like under 30Hz) is what is more likely to cause general wear and tear of the musculoskeletal system (tendinitis, arthritis etc...), extending from the hands all the way up to the shoulder, a well as nerve compression in the palms, and potentially carpal tunnel problems. This is because the energy and amplitude in that frequency range is great enough that it gets your whole arm shaking around. Bike industry marketing materials rarely distinguish what frequencies they're making claims about and what the percentage improvements are, but I am hopeful that there will be more independent research done in the future like this study done on enduro racers: https://www.jsc-journal.com/index.php/JSC/article/view/426/532
Anyway, for most people riding natural terrain with short, sharp impacts, I think flex is probably helpful in terms of reducing many peak loading events, reducing fatigue, and making the bars feel calmer and helping you keep a looser grip on the bars. BUT, it seems worth keeping in mind that you might actually feel more oscillation cycles coming through the bar, and possibly get more fatigued and feel the need to grip the bars tighter in those situations where the undamped rebound characteristics are a poor match for the terrain. Seeing how they work for you, your bike, and your trails is probably the only way to know for sure.
Fuckin ay you fellas are really into this stuff.
Color me impressed.
FWIW damping can also be solved by adding different materials in a carbon bar
I think I've mentioned a few times now that I've been on soft/flexy bars for a while now (just over two years). While frequency of vibration, damping, amount of rebound, etc., haven't been measured (yet? I have some ideas...), the softer bar did help out my wrist feeling better. I'm having problems because about 3 years ago I switched from a silicone strap on my watch to a nylon one, I had to strap the watch down REALLY hard for it to not move around and chew out my wrist bones (I like to have it a bit higher up my forearm) and the results is a constant niggle when I'm riding for a longer time right behind the thumb on the inner side of the wrist (inner side behind the thumb tendon). It was painful riding on aluminium bars, specifically a set of AliExpress bars that I bought to try out cutting them to a narrower length, turns out they are about twice as thick as any other normal aluminium bar (and probably twice as stiff).
Going to a soft carbon bar made my wrist hurt less and as you said, requires a lighter grip on the bars. This was specifically pronounced after doing a back-to-back test on a long trail, where I was almost thrown off the bars towards the bottom of it on choppy roots (Loris would say something along the lines of 'ka ka ka') that really stop your bike, while the carbon bars flexed and let me keep a light grip.
One thing I did notice (but should maybe confirm again) is that a softer bar makes the fork feel 'worse', makes it feel stiffer and I'd feel this is because all the small bump chatter is taken up by the bar (if it's REALLY soft) and lets the fork stick a bit more than if you had a stiffer bar.
I wonder what the relationship between grip preference and handlebar compliance is. I've moved entirely to 35 as it just seems easier to get what I want with that clamp, but generally running 34mm+ grips on all the bikes, and I find that gives a lot of comfort, even on stiffass Renthals. Stiff bar/Comfortable grip seems to be best for me.
My brother in Christ simply remove the watch when you ride
Or at least get a different band. The Garmin nylon "active" one doesn't move at all for me whereas the Apple silicone and infinite bands did.
I've been running the silicone band and the watch on the other hand for the last two years and the wrist still hurts. I'm not an idiot looking for a solution without removing the problem...
Old school gloves with a really thick tensioning Velcro strap on the back of the wrist used to be a god send for bulky watches. I kinda miss overbuilt gloves just for their sheer comfort and protection against watches slamming my wrist in chatter
Why are you guys wearing big watches when you ride
Big watch. Little watch. Dangly watch. Tight watch. If you're like me & like to wear it closer to your wrist than up your forearm, they can bang your wrist.
No matter the size of a watch, if yours hasn't whacked your wrist, you need to let off the brakes. 🤣
I don’t wear a watch when I ride because it hurts my wrist. Well my Casio didn’t…
A new-to-me winter bike arrived with a 31.8mm Vibrocore bar and I can't say it's doing much for me even when directly compared to a 35mm carbon bar on the same bike. I am going to try the A38 AL next.
I prefer to run 35mm for single crown bikes and 31.8 for double crown forks. It also depends on the fork/frame. I run a 31.8 on my hard tail with a suspension fork but a 35 n my full sus trail bike.
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