Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
Five lucky people will be selected at random to win a Vital MTB t-shirt.
Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
This was the trek proto they were testing a year ago. It’s close but most likely not Trek.
Im not sure about wilson just cause i havnt seen devinci put the chainstay on the outside of the seatstay like that. Could be but also that angle on the side of the seat stay doesnt look very much like and devinci ive seen. Almost more like a canyon but they just came out with a dh bike recently too. The split pivot is very similar to orbea but they just came out with their dh bike. Trek on fox and trp seems weird too.
I take back what i said about devinci not putting the chainstay on the outside. Looking at the troy alloy and the chainsaw they definitely do with the alloy bikes. The angles on the seatstay still look off for a devinci to me but could be.
The inside part is the one with the brake caliper mounted to it. On the Wilson that's the chainstay as it has the layout flipped to other models. In this case it's the seatstay so it's mounted there.
The same part mounting the caliper also has the pivot bolt mounted solidly with the bearing on the outer part - you get more space to mount it that way. You need to do it that way because if you had the bearing in the caliper mounting member, under a locked wheel situation, the axle would rotate inside the hub. You don't want that, you need everything fixed. So it makes sense to have the caliper carrying member inside, put the bolt through it and lock it in place and have the (wide-ish) bearing on the outside of it rotating freely.
The "old" Devinci HP Proto
Well that's a plot twist to my above rumbling...
Caliper location is definitely important to the prototype speculation. Wilson‘s of the past have had the caliper mounted to the chainstay, which is what is actually driving the shock.
Don’t quote me here, but I think one of the key parts of Split Pivot design is caliper location relative to shock linkage. The Wilson has always had the caliper mounted to the chainstay that actuates the lower linkage. “Crab” designs consequently are mounted to the seatstays…
Not neccessarily - the HP Range (ironically a bike of the day yesterday) and the Horst link Forbiddens have it mounted to the chainstay. If you have a true 4-bar layout, you need to mount the caliper to the axle mounting member/link - the seatstays of a normal horst link, the rear triangle for a dual short link bike or the chainstay for any inverted horst link design (high pivot inverted designs).
With split pivot (and active braking pivot) it's a gray area as these designs are single pivot when it comes to pedalling performance (axle mounted to the front triangle with what is basically a swingarm), but are actually 4-bars when it comes to braking performance. This is precisely because the caliper is mounted to the seatstays in the case of all(?) Treks and in the case of most Devincis, but to hte chainstays of the Wilson. Because the Wilson is, as inverted high pivot horst links, actually an inverted design.
If the Wilson had the caliper mounted to the seatstays, it would be a single pivot through and through. A single pivot with a 'complicated' layout (you have to jump through hoops to make the pivot concentric), but a single pivot nontheless. If you have this freedom of choice, obviously you go for the higher performing option (4-bar).
Orbea, and now Canyon on the HP Sender,
Ideally, you want the caliper mount on the floating link to reduce the effect of braking forces on the suspension, lower the anti rise. If it's an inverted system, so that the main pivot is connected to the seat stay and the chainstay is the floating link, then having the brake mount on the seat stay defeats the purpose of having the axle pivot. It's just a LD single pivot with an obnoxious bearing location at that point. Unless they want high anti rise, which is possible. But in regard to the first picture, it doesn't look like a High Pivot, so the brake being mounted to the seat stay is the lower anti rise position.
None of the previous Wilson’s were high pivot. They have all had the brake mounted to the chainstay and not the seatstay. Even the prototype HP models were designed this way.
I actually have an HP Range. Brilliant bike.
I’m just pointing out that the previous design language of the Wilson is opposite of this prototype.
The proto has a very similar rear end to the new Devinci Troy and the Chainsaw. So likely a Devinci...I hope!
On the other hand...Sram crank, Fox fork, TRP Brakes with Sram rotor...i don't know :D
I'm pretty sure every Wilson after 2011ish were mid high pivot were they not? The main pivot was half way up the frame and the chain stay pulled a rotating link to actuate the shock
Correct, but they never released an idler style high pivot. Only prototypes.
Correct. But for the day, I think the Wilson was fairly high pivot. Same as the single pivot Gambler. High pivot for a suspension system without an idler that is.
FWIW, when we mention split pivots and caliper locations and certain locations giving a single pivot layout, that is exactly what the high pivot Sender actually is. With the added complication of multiple links driving the shock, not just the chainstay and a rocker. There's an additional rocker in there akin to Knollys 4x4 system, Norcos DH bike system, etc. So it's actually a linkage driven linkage driven single pivot 😂
The linkages are like crabs in a bucket, climbing all over each to actuate the shock.
Here we go, it had to happen sooner or later... The first ever production full-suspension carbon XC-Bike with 32" wheels.
Read more about it here: https://www.stoll-bikes.com/p32
Geometry table is at the very bottom of the page. Though it seems like Stoll won't tell you the full geometry data unless you're ordering a bike. They've got sizes "Medium" and "Large", although people have done the math for the missing geometry numbers and both sizes are very big. The size recommendations seem a little strange, to say the least.
Spect 5 to 10 years until geometry became sorted. It's the race to be the first to sell that new thing, prototyping is on the hands of the early adopter
What the hell is wrong with these companies? Both Stoll and DirtySixer think they can sell bikes without telling people the geometry. Is this just some kind of rug pull because they don't know what they're doing, and until Trek or Specialized or whoever comes out with a sorted 32inch bike they can trick people into being early adopters with the alure of new-new (be the first on your block!)? This is some fly by night nonsense.
One thing that became almost immediately clear in the relatively short time that I have been reading and participating in bike-related internet forums is that the proportion of posters that are good at math is extremely high. It seems that 1 in 10 is an actual engineer, and the proportion of math-brained folks among the remainder is way higher than the public at large.
As such, holding back geometry information strikes me as misguided because one's efforts are destined to be futile unless they also refuse to release pictures of the product. From the moment the bike is portrayed in side profile, you may get one day before some mathematically inclined internet sleuth derives it all and spills your beans for you.
Thanks for the math award. I don’t even practice so it’s double nice.
We are also very handsome here on the messageboards.
That bike is super dumb looking.
The fact that the front triangle looks like it could almost fit inside of one of the wheels gives it a pretty strange look for sure.
it may not be faster but you’ll find yourself in a lone breakaway every ride
I'm curious to see the development curve on the 32in.. 29 had the interruption of 27.5 and a lot of years trying to make a 29er feel like a 26.. Maybe this time they address what the feel the strengths the 32 are and go at it.. Or, does history repeat itself and we get 30.5 for a minute? Then we end up at 32/30.5 mixed wheels..
Reach: 500mm
Stack: TOP SECRET!!!
Honestly equally secret to Oberrohr for everyone too lazy to use a translator app, myself included.
They won't even let us see their Lenkwinkel.
New Mezzer inbound?