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More rearward weight transfer is going to require more AS to counteract.
Yes - which you get AUTOMATICALLY as a result of whatever anti-squat curve your frame has. That is what anti-squat means. The force that is causing the rearward weight transfer (=the accelerating force of the wheel, driven by the chain) is also a result of the force that is causing the suspension to extend to counter the effect of the rearward weight transfer.
Or to put it another way: anti-squat curves are not provided at a given level of pedal input, are they? The anti-squat curve is a function of the frame's layout, and not the amount of force being applied to the transmission at any given point in time. The charts do usually indicate the chain ring size and in which gear the anti-squat was measured, as those factors DO influence the geometry and the behavior of the rear triangle under load.
When seals in emtb motors fail, it lets water into the main compartment and unsurprisingly the electronics do not appreciate that. So often a seal failure around the crank leads to having to replace circuit boards. Also, the same seal failures can let dirt ingress into the drive sprockets / belts (depending on motor brand) and cause destruction. Sometimes the sprockets aren't even metal, they're plastic to save weight. So when a motor manufacturer won't sell parts, it's more than just bearings and seals that become difficult to source. I agree that Shimano motors are irrelevant on new bikes right now, but the fact is that there are a LOT of 3-5 year old ebikes out their with EP8 motors. I see more YT Decoys in my area than any other specific model, so those owners now have a double whammy of the bike brand being out of business (can't supply wiring harnesses) and the motor manufacturer being insufferable to deal with.
So yeah, while I doubt many of the Decoy owners around me (given their apparent lack of fitness) would rush to buy a Kranke adapter if there was one available, but I do think that there should be aftermarket options for prolonging the lifespan of older ebikes rather than just throwing the whole frame in the landfill just because the owner can't replace a failed wiring harness or circuit board.
I think you could fit a Pinion gearbox or BB brackets in the Space of old motors for bikeparks use..
Tried to get any Fazua parts lately? I have.
I hear thru the grapevine fazua won’t be around much longer. I like their motor so I’m a little bummed about what I’ve heard.
Ugh. I've been holding onto my Heckler SL because the used market is shit right now, it's still a super fun bike to ride, and because I like the idea of having a loaner ebike for visitors... but I don't want to be stuck holding the bag on a discontinued system. Granted, I'm sure if the motor did fail after Fazua pulls the plug SC would try to do right by the owners but it still makes me nervous.
I love my Hecker SL. I’ll be extremely bummed if the frame/motor becomes a pricey piece of garage wall decor.
With such limited options in the frame-only ebike landscape, I really hope SC will offer some help should Fazua go extinct.
I’ve recently demoed the SL Orbea with the Bosch system, and today the new Yeti with the TQ system. I’ll take my Relay any day over either of them. I really hope Fazua keeps developing, but I’m worried lol
I'd be keen to hear more on this, specifically the yeti i.e. they're supposed to be the same torque. I've heard others say they feel very different too.
But I better say the ride 60 in my relay hasn’t been perfect. That’s for sure, but when it’s working it’s pretty awesome and puts a smile on my face. Light weight slack long travel E bikes (relay PNW) are my jam. Dying breed of bikes unfortunately
It takes a much higher cadence to get the same amount of power that the fazua makes. My seat of the pants feeling.
I didn’t dislike the TQ system at all. Very refined and quiet. Just not much of an improvement (or any) over the Fazua
Bike companies must be as frustrated as consumers wondering what system to buy. Maybe it's time to get a standardized motor mount going?
Bike testing for my relay replacement continues. Spent today on a Pivot shuttle AM. Bosch cx-r. It’s been a minute since I’ve ridden a bike with this much power. No wonder guys have range anxiety on bikes like this. It makes climbing so easy you can just go all day.
I was supposed to ride the Yeti again today but honestly I didn’t even want to ride it. That’s why I ended up on the pivot. Pivots geo for what I ride is so much better. Pivots Bosch is very powerful but not natural feeling at all. And the Bosch has the drag over 20mph that will kill you if you need to pedal for a big jump or obstacle, that’s a big turn off for me. The TQ and Fazua drivetrains are better for me. Now I need to try an Avinox bike.
Anyways sorry about the ranting, looking for input
Yeah, I almost bought one but wasn't sure if the power was enough and the qc issues held me off aswell. I wish I had demoted one.
Any feedback on the Druid-E for forbidden ? Seems like the perfect light ebike with most powerful motor available !
I really hope Santa will move away soon from fazua for the heckler sl.
I finally got my own Relay working exactly how I'd like and legitimately might just keep it as a spare rather than give it away. Last night I swapped the LED hub and the controller to the new version as my original controller was shot. The new one is much nicer.
The Antidote I ordered some time back, is pretty late, and at the moment I'm not feeling super stoked on trying to dial in a new platform.
My controller is jacked up also. I’m having a hard time getting the new display, the controller is available but it won’t work without the display and it’s NLA
You sure that drag with the bosch isn't just the fact that it's putting out more power, and suddenly none when it cuts off ?
Or is this the older bosch cx ?
I find my '25 mondraker crafty xr (bosch gen 5) more or less identical to the relay (fazua) with the motor off. Good bike too, great geo, excellent kinematics, even if the downtube is a bit of a visual travesty.
The e-druid is the heat as well, that's where I'd go next, if I had to.
The avinox really isn't much lighter than the bosch. It's within 500 grams on the two 600wh setups I weighed. So I'd not buy based upon the weight savings premise. And I've got to say I've never wanted more power with the bosch gen 5, with the latest update it feels like about double what the fazua has, which is plenty in the first place.The avinox cranks it up to ludicrous, kind of unusable, power. I would purchase something with the avinox simply for the form factor, it's just more aesthetically pleasing. It chews through the battery at an alarming rate if you run it anywhere near full power though.
If you're married to the lightweight concept, the mte is the way to go. The power is a bit softer than the fazua, but in a refined way. And the rear end is truly impressive for 145mm of travel. It'll do everything the relay will do, and do most of it better. The crafty is a similar rear suspension vibe.
Jeff Kendall-Weed just did a side-by-side ride with a Norco Sight VLT and an Amflow with the power settings matched, and his conclusion was the systems were about equal. My experience on the newest Bosch motor is that it’s more than enough. I ride in the regular emtb mode the majority of the time. I’ll bump it up to emtb+ if the climb is crazy steep. I haven’t ridden the Avinox, but it sounds great—I’d probably run similar power settings to what I ride now.
Additionally, I just got a Santa Cruz Bullit. I was hesitant due to the 600 battery, but thanks to my lighter body weight (160 lbs) and having a new battery with an efficient system, I’m able to ride alongside my friends and match range exactly with 800 and 750 batteries while riding in emtb mode with +3, +3 at 600 watts power settings. Initially, I was a 600 battery hater, but if you’re the right size, it performs great. If I was 200+ pounds, I’d wish I had an 800 battery.
Definate drag, like the decoy I tried a little while back. You can feel it just pedaling around the parking lot with the power off. It’s also much louder than the TQ or Fazua. Maybe the Bosch didn’t have the most current update? But man does have lots of power the way I rode it. Honestly more than I need or want.
The yeti MTE is not even in the same league as the relay, especially the PNW set up. Mine is a PNW. Unless I rode twisty flat XC style trails. The yeti is better than the relay at that stuff. But like I mentioned I had no desire to ride the yeti again after my first day on it. I don’t ride any flat stuff. But the TQ motor is pretty sweet. It just should work at a lower cadence.
I spent two days on the Pivot, good geo. I could ride it fast right away. It is ugly tho lol
Odd, I’ve pedalled my buddies pnw relay a bunch with the system off. We regularly ride our e-bikes without batteries. I can’t tell the difference on the climbs, or pedalling for speed after the cutoff.
We will self shuttle a local ski hill until the batteries are gone, and then pull the batteries and ride until the legs are gone.
I rented an Mte for a week this fall and rode it around Kamloops, including two days in the park at sunpeaks. It had no problems with anything there, and I was switching back and forth from my coil/coil dreadnought v2. I’ve rode my buddies pnw relay enough to get a pretty good feel for it. I’d take the crafty xr all day, every day over either Mte or relay. Particularly for faster, rougher terrain. The geo is better, and the rear end is on another level. Feels like a high pivot without the negative traits. 49 pounds with the 600wh.
The bosch cx 4 where you can't change the assist modes feels very unnatural. Yes it's powerful but the eco is very weak and everything else pulls you forward. So as a light rider you're kinda inclined to ride faster than you want. Didn't feel like cycling to me. Browse is much better.
Sorry I didn’t reply clearly I guess. The Fazua and TQ systems can be peddled like normal when off. Not the Bosch, and the drag the Bosch has can be felt after the 20mph limit is reached. You don’t feel that resistance after 20mph on the Fazua or TQ
The Relay has 170mm of rear travel the yeti is 140. The relay is way slacker and the rear end is shorter so it’s a lot more poppy and fun than the MTE, Not even in the same league, just my opinion. Although I agree the yetis rear suspension is really good for what it is. I didn’t like the Mondraker I rode for a day, ride quality was nothing special and the Bosch SX motor needs to high of a cadence. I like the torquey feel of the Fazua more.
I can feel the 20mph limit resistance on my Fazua 60. There's a little hip jump on a hillside along one of the streets on my way home from the park, and the faster you go, the higher you can land uphill. So I pedal like crazy rolling into it, and hit the limit easily. I tried an experiment where I turned off assistance after I hit the limit on the Fazua, and the resistance I felt went away. Powered off, it's got a lot less drag than the CX 5, but not as bad as a Brose/Specialized, which is like molasses.
There's something about the new specislized system where there's a 28mph cut off option? Is that a thing? Any reports on the new spesh system as a whole. I think they ditched the motor belt for traditional gears. The least inexpensive aluminium model might be a good place to start for a long travel platform. Add the long travel 170 link/shock and , not sure but, the frame may have a long travel fork rating. I wonder if that includes a triple clamp in that rating?
I’ll have to try and see if there’s a perceptible difference between the gen 5 Bosch and fazua, with them both switched on. No reason there should be a difference between on or off, but admittedly the places I’ve rode both back to back are quite steep. If I am on the pedals past the cutoff, gravity is blurring the picture perhaps.
On the Mte vs relay, personal chainstay length preference very well could be the difference in opinion there. One of the more attractive points of the crafty was the 465mm chainstays. It is the only model of mondraker I’ve tried that I liked. Their mid power units with the sx all felt a bit unbalanced with the short rear ends. And that motor sucks. Hence my suggestion of the Mte in the mid power category.
https://www.socalbike.com/pages/search-results-page?q=fazua%20hub
I ordered mine on a Sunday and it arrived in TX on that Wednesday.
GL
Yes you can get assist to 28mph. I’m on long link shock and Ohlins DH38 fork. Bike is a beast, my favorite ebike to date. The motor is so quiet and natural feeling. I was on a Bosch Gen 4 before this.
Very cool. Did you post up a "bike check"? It'd be nice to see the complete build and weight. I'm surprised we don't hear more about them. Avinox steals most of the air along with bosch cx5
Yes can we get a bike check? I'm on a Lardo 4 long link+ 170 fork. Are you running the fork at full travel or just 180?
I can comment on much this is my first ebike but it seem great and the motor does feel more natural than the bosch I've ridden when trading with friends for a few mins. I did have to warranty a battery tray/nest already but the bike is a blast. I got it in sometime in July and already have like 1000 miles on it.Yes the 28mph function is available for USA bikes, my friends in Canada said they can't unlock it so I think its region dependent. There is a couple of jumps where hitting it at 30 to clear is about what you need. Upping the cut off limit makes it feel much more natural and not like someone just hit the brakes on you for the last 7mph.
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