If you can make do with the somewhat smaller size than your stated 12-liter goal, the Thule Vital 8 was one of the more stable packs I remember testing: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Hydration-Packs,70/Thule/Vital,22012#product-reviews-9616. It's getting on a bit but I think they still sell it. The "ReTrakt" magnetic hose management system is super useful (although it doesn't necessarily age gracefully after a couple of years), and the low center of gravity/body hugging fit is a plus for racing scenarios I'd say. Thule also makes the Rail series of packs, they offer more volume but I was less impressed with the feel and fit on the trail.
dear americans, your water filter ideas are cute, but this is europe where there are springs all over the place and you can drink the non chlorinated tab water…
I'm liking my Lab austere pack, I know weird name and it only comes in black but it works really well, has a magnetic hose clip for the bladder, comes with a spine protector (which I took out) but it looks and works really similarly to the USWE stuff and this is a small company out of Utah that makes them, I think its just one guy doing it and they are always on sale too.
I like the USWE Airborne. I have the 9L as I’m not doing huge unsupported days anymore, they do make a 15L version. When it’s filled to the max as long as it’s not got a ton of weight up high it stays in place. I’m definitely not getting whacked in the helmet on harsh landings, g-outs or whatever. Blasting a dirt road with baby heads everywhere it does shake a bit, but at that point my eyeballs are shaking too!
I also really like how easy it is to stash knee pads for the climb without stinking up the inside of the pack. Another good feature is that it’s easy to cinch down if you start with a max filled bladder and end pretty much empty. They even sell a GoPro mount if you are into that.
I haven't been doing big rides for a few years. I've been thinking this would be my next pack if I do see some windows for all day adventures coming up:
I also have an USWE Airborne 9 and love it. Did a 60 km, 2300 meter ride w/a bunch of big hike a bikes last weekend, in the summer heat and it was just the right amount of space.
When I had it fully loaded it definitely sagged down on my back a bit more than normal, but never had the sensation of it dancing around on my back. I run it as tight as the chest straps go and keep it that way which seems great for my body shape.
Water is generally easy to come by in the alps. In the alpine, there's little creeks everywhere. In the valleys, every little village has a water tap. Carry a filter for pulling out of streams. So really, you need to carry ~1 liter of water in your pack (plus a bottle on the frame), a filter, a jacket, basic tools, and a bunch of food.
You don't need a full size pack for that. A large-ish fanny pack will work. Or something like the Henty enduro pack. If you want to take your knee pads (or chin bar) off on the climb, just strap them to your handlebar.
Full size packs suck. They're hot, and they bounce around a lot. Go minimalist.
Edit: are you required to have back protection? It's a common requirement for euro races. That'd obviously affect the ideal setup.
Another vote for the Osprey Raptor Pro. For the long days I can pack it's 2.5L pack, 2x 700ML bottles and lifestraw peak series. There is typically an alpine lake and/or water springs in the mountains that can be used to refill all that. I find it to be very secure for rough descents. My biggest selling feature was the built in back protector and the secure helmet mount for those hike a bike days. The whole thing expands and collapses depending on how much stuff you need to carry.
This might be harder to find in North America but consider Deuter... I love the Attack range if you need back protection. Tons of well thought out details.
I'm liking my Lab austere pack, I know weird name and it only comes in black but it works really well, has a magnetic hose clip...
I'm liking my Lab austere pack, I know weird name and it only comes in black but it works really well, has a magnetic hose clip for the bladder, comes with a spine protector (which I took out) but it looks and works really similarly to the USWE stuff and this is a small company out of Utah that makes them, I think its just one guy doing it and they are always on sale too.
Not sure if it helps, but last year I graduated from a 10 year old Drafter 12 to a newer Drafter 14 with the lumbar bladder. I'm not impressed and am missing the old one.
The bladder is an utter pain to clip in (1 cm more of the strap for the clip would solve this), belt strap with the side pockets is cumbersome, hotter and always folds in and most importantly, the pockets are organised suboptimally compared to the old one. It is one of the few backpacks in this size with a ventilated back and a backprotector option (very important for my GF).
Not sure if it helps, but last year I graduated from a 10 year old Drafter 12 to a newer Drafter 14 with the lumbar bladder...
Not sure if it helps, but last year I graduated from a 10 year old Drafter 12 to a newer Drafter 14 with the lumbar bladder. I'm not impressed and am missing the old one.
The bladder is an utter pain to clip in (1 cm more of the strap for the clip would solve this), belt strap with the side pockets is cumbersome, hotter and always folds in and most importantly, the pockets are organised suboptimally compared to the old one. It is one of the few backpacks in this size with a ventilated back and a backprotector option (very important for my GF).
Update on that one, last weekend (so 4 days after posting the comment) the freaking bladder developed a hole. Luckily putting on my backpack I felt it's wet and knew it's not a good sign. Figured the hose isn't clipped in all the way, but it was. Spinning the bladder around, looking at it, I managed to position it in such a way that the stream of water flowing out went over the (dark) backpack so I could see it, as I otherwise couldn't on the white background of the bathtub. It's a really tiny hole, but hole nontheless.
I have a normal Hydrapak bladder that's probably about 10 years old without any damage to it and this bladder failure develops a leak in less than a year. The best part? The backpack is the ONLY one with a lumbar bladder so it's not cross compatible with any other backpacks and you can't find a replacement. Dakine doesn't have any customer support at this point, EU site is 'under development' and 'will be ready in spring 25' and the redirect for EU support is nonresponsive.
TL;DR: Looks like Dakine is a dead company, lumbar bladders are an evolutionary dead end and there is no support if something goes wrong. Do not buy Dakine.
That's a bit shit. I really like my LR camelbaks. Being able to ride really dynamically with a decent amount of weight on your back without it flopping around is damn good when it works.
I had a similarly poor experience with Dakine but that was about a decade ago. Haven't bought Dakine since.
my 2018 Camelbak Skyline LR 10 has always done the job for me, super secure, I can fit what I need for big days, plus there's a stuff pocket on the back for a jacket. the 2020+ model has mixed reviews, so unless you can find any old pre-2020 stock I probably wouldn't recommend it.
if I was buying something today, I'd probably go for the Arctos Epic 10.3 or 14.4, those look sweet (if a bit goofy) and Dario from PB seemed to like the 14.4.
I'm liking my Lab austere pack, I know weird name and it only comes in black but it works really well, has a magnetic hose clip...
I'm liking my Lab austere pack, I know weird name and it only comes in black but it works really well, has a magnetic hose clip for the bladder, comes with a spine protector (which I took out) but it looks and works really similarly to the USWE stuff and this is a small company out of Utah that makes them, I think its just one guy doing it and they are always on sale too.
They’re also $100, and right now with an additional 40% discount- I just snagged one
Just an update, my pack came, it’s great quality, I can carry up to 4l (not comfortably, but it’s 4l) with the back protector pad installed. The pocket organization is wild and it doesn’t bounce on rides. Big fan of the lab austere. I think they’re selling off the rest of their stock right now too.
I'm liking my Lab austere pack, I know weird name and it only comes in black but it works really well, has a magnetic hose clip...
I'm liking my Lab austere pack, I know weird name and it only comes in black but it works really well, has a magnetic hose clip for the bladder, comes with a spine protector (which I took out) but it looks and works really similarly to the USWE stuff and this is a small company out of Utah that makes them, I think its just one guy doing it and they are always on sale too.
Just an update, my pack came, it’s great quality, I can carry up to 4l (not comfortably, but it’s 4l) with the back protector pad installed...
Just an update, my pack came, it’s great quality, I can carry up to 4l (not comfortably, but it’s 4l) with the back protector pad installed. The pocket organization is wild and it doesn’t bounce on rides. Big fan of the lab austere. I think they’re selling off the rest of their stock right now too.
They are great until they fall apart when the seams disintegrate because cheap materials (and labor). If you feel like supporting a local business, consider High Above.
Just an update, my pack came, it’s great quality, I can carry up to 4l (not comfortably, but it’s 4l) with the back protector pad installed...
Just an update, my pack came, it’s great quality, I can carry up to 4l (not comfortably, but it’s 4l) with the back protector pad installed. The pocket organization is wild and it doesn’t bounce on rides. Big fan of the lab austere. I think they’re selling off the rest of their stock right now too.
They are great until they fall apart when the seams disintegrate because cheap materials (and labor). If you feel like supporting a local business, consider High...
They are great until they fall apart when the seams disintegrate because cheap materials (and labor). If you feel like supporting a local business, consider High Above.
Yeah, my 7 year high above pack has been great. I don’t like their new pack layout but that’s just me.
How did it take yours to fall apart? I’m handy with a needle and thread so I’m not worried, but it’ll be good to know other’s experience.
I'm liking my Lab austere pack, I know weird name and it only comes in black but it works really well, has a magnetic hose clip...
I'm liking my Lab austere pack, I know weird name and it only comes in black but it works really well, has a magnetic hose clip for the bladder, comes with a spine protector (which I took out) but it looks and works really similarly to the USWE stuff and this is a small company out of Utah that makes them, I think its just one guy doing it and they are always on sale too.
Just an update, my pack came, it’s great quality, I can carry up to 4l (not comfortably, but it’s 4l) with the back protector pad installed...
Just an update, my pack came, it’s great quality, I can carry up to 4l (not comfortably, but it’s 4l) with the back protector pad installed. The pocket organization is wild and it doesn’t bounce on rides. Big fan of the lab austere. I think they’re selling off the rest of their stock right now too.
They are great until they fall apart when the seams disintegrate because cheap materials (and labor). If you feel like supporting a local business, consider High...
They are great until they fall apart when the seams disintegrate because cheap materials (and labor). If you feel like supporting a local business, consider High Above.
They are great until they fall apart when the seams disintegrate because cheap materials (and labor). If you feel like supporting a local business, consider High...
They are great until they fall apart when the seams disintegrate because cheap materials (and labor). If you feel like supporting a local business, consider High Above.
Not sure if it helps, but last year I graduated from a 10 year old Drafter 12 to a newer Drafter 14 with the lumbar bladder...
Not sure if it helps, but last year I graduated from a 10 year old Drafter 12 to a newer Drafter 14 with the lumbar bladder. I'm not impressed and am missing the old one.
The bladder is an utter pain to clip in (1 cm more of the strap for the clip would solve this), belt strap with the side pockets is cumbersome, hotter and always folds in and most importantly, the pockets are organised suboptimally compared to the old one. It is one of the few backpacks in this size with a ventilated back and a backprotector option (very important for my GF).
Update on that one, last weekend (so 4 days after posting the comment) the freaking bladder developed a hole. Luckily putting on my backpack I felt...
Update on that one, last weekend (so 4 days after posting the comment) the freaking bladder developed a hole. Luckily putting on my backpack I felt it's wet and knew it's not a good sign. Figured the hose isn't clipped in all the way, but it was. Spinning the bladder around, looking at it, I managed to position it in such a way that the stream of water flowing out went over the (dark) backpack so I could see it, as I otherwise couldn't on the white background of the bathtub. It's a really tiny hole, but hole nontheless.
I have a normal Hydrapak bladder that's probably about 10 years old without any damage to it and this bladder failure develops a leak in less than a year. The best part? The backpack is the ONLY one with a lumbar bladder so it's not cross compatible with any other backpacks and you can't find a replacement. Dakine doesn't have any customer support at this point, EU site is 'under development' and 'will be ready in spring 25' and the redirect for EU support is nonresponsive.
TL;DR: Looks like Dakine is a dead company, lumbar bladders are an evolutionary dead end and there is no support if something goes wrong. Do not buy Dakine.
I know it kinda sounds like moaning, but nevertheless, an epilogue (apparently).
Since I last posted my above comments, I was on the line with the US customer support (who at least replied and said they will try to ping the EU reps). The EU reps first answered on 25th september (almost a month since the first email), then there was radio silence (I was in contact with the US reps and periodically pinged the EU e-mail in the mean time) until 2 days ago. Almost exactly 4 months later.
They said they don't have a spare part (the lumbar bladder) but that they can offer a 30 € voucher for what appears to me a random EU webshop to buy... another Dakine product (their words).
Lesson learned, always buy stuff that is as far away from proprietary as possible.
If you can make do with the somewhat smaller size than your stated 12-liter goal, the Thule Vital 8 was one of the more stable packs I remember testing: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Hydration-Packs,70/Thule/Vital,22012#product-reviews-9616. It's getting on a bit but I think they still sell it. The "ReTrakt" magnetic hose management system is super useful (although it doesn't necessarily age gracefully after a couple of years), and the low center of gravity/body hugging fit is a plus for racing scenarios I'd say. Thule also makes the Rail series of packs, they offer more volume but I was less impressed with the feel and fit on the trail.
Had really good results with EVOC too.
dear americans, your water filter ideas are cute, but this is europe where there are springs all over the place and you can drink the non chlorinated tab water…
I'm liking my Lab austere pack, I know weird name and it only comes in black but it works really well, has a magnetic hose clip for the bladder, comes with a spine protector (which I took out) but it looks and works really similarly to the USWE stuff and this is a small company out of Utah that makes them, I think its just one guy doing it and they are always on sale too.
https://labaustere.com/collections/frontpage/products/yob-signature-rid…
I like the USWE Airborne. I have the 9L as I’m not doing huge unsupported days anymore, they do make a 15L version. When it’s filled to the max as long as it’s not got a ton of weight up high it stays in place. I’m definitely not getting whacked in the helmet on harsh landings, g-outs or whatever. Blasting a dirt road with baby heads everywhere it does shake a bit, but at that point my eyeballs are shaking too!
I also really like how easy it is to stash knee pads for the climb without stinking up the inside of the pack. Another good feature is that it’s easy to cinch down if you start with a max filled bladder and end pretty much empty. They even sell a GoPro mount if you are into that.
I haven't been doing big rides for a few years. I've been thinking this would be my next pack if I do see some windows for all day adventures coming up:
https://arctospacks.com/?srsltid=AfmBOoqqymwqhxgE1X_U6kbloyQ8dsvC69lRE4…
I also have an USWE Airborne 9 and love it. Did a 60 km, 2300 meter ride w/a bunch of big hike a bikes last weekend, in the summer heat and it was just the right amount of space.
When I had it fully loaded it definitely sagged down on my back a bit more than normal, but never had the sensation of it dancing around on my back. I run it as tight as the chest straps go and keep it that way which seems great for my body shape.
Water is generally easy to come by in the alps. In the alpine, there's little creeks everywhere. In the valleys, every little village has a water tap. Carry a filter for pulling out of streams. So really, you need to carry ~1 liter of water in your pack (plus a bottle on the frame), a filter, a jacket, basic tools, and a bunch of food.
You don't need a full size pack for that. A large-ish fanny pack will work. Or something like the Henty enduro pack. If you want to take your knee pads (or chin bar) off on the climb, just strap them to your handlebar.
Full size packs suck. They're hot, and they bounce around a lot. Go minimalist.
Edit: are you required to have back protection? It's a common requirement for euro races. That'd obviously affect the ideal setup.
Another vote for the Osprey Raptor Pro. For the long days I can pack it's 2.5L pack, 2x 700ML bottles and lifestraw peak series. There is typically an alpine lake and/or water springs in the mountains that can be used to refill all that. I find it to be very secure for rough descents. My biggest selling feature was the built in back protector and the secure helmet mount for those hike a bike days. The whole thing expands and collapses depending on how much stuff you need to carry.
Cheaper alternative to uswe
https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/riding-gear/msr-enduro-hydration-pack-p
https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/riding-gear/msr-low-profile-race-hydration-pack-p
I currently have the vest style Evoc its pretty nice but its stuffed for a big day plus I have in frame storage for a tube and light rain jacket.
This might be harder to find in North America but consider Deuter... I love the Attack range if you need back protection. Tons of well thought out details.
They’re also $100, and right now with an additional 40% discount- I just snagged one
Not sure if it helps, but last year I graduated from a 10 year old Drafter 12 to a newer Drafter 14 with the lumbar bladder. I'm not impressed and am missing the old one.
The bladder is an utter pain to clip in (1 cm more of the strap for the clip would solve this), belt strap with the side pockets is cumbersome, hotter and always folds in and most importantly, the pockets are organised suboptimally compared to the old one. It is one of the few backpacks in this size with a ventilated back and a backprotector option (very important for my GF).
Update on that one, last weekend (so 4 days after posting the comment) the freaking bladder developed a hole. Luckily putting on my backpack I felt it's wet and knew it's not a good sign. Figured the hose isn't clipped in all the way, but it was. Spinning the bladder around, looking at it, I managed to position it in such a way that the stream of water flowing out went over the (dark) backpack so I could see it, as I otherwise couldn't on the white background of the bathtub. It's a really tiny hole, but hole nontheless.
I have a normal Hydrapak bladder that's probably about 10 years old without any damage to it and this bladder failure develops a leak in less than a year. The best part? The backpack is the ONLY one with a lumbar bladder so it's not cross compatible with any other backpacks and you can't find a replacement. Dakine doesn't have any customer support at this point, EU site is 'under development' and 'will be ready in spring 25' and the redirect for EU support is nonresponsive.
TL;DR: Looks like Dakine is a dead company, lumbar bladders are an evolutionary dead end and there is no support if something goes wrong. Do not buy Dakine.
That's a bit shit. I really like my LR camelbaks. Being able to ride really dynamically with a decent amount of weight on your back without it flopping around is damn good when it works.
I had a similarly poor experience with Dakine but that was about a decade ago. Haven't bought Dakine since.
Dakine is the worst. Not honoring any warranties outside the US or Canada.
https://www.dakine.com/pages/warranty
my 2018 Camelbak Skyline LR 10 has always done the job for me, super secure, I can fit what I need for big days, plus there's a stuff pocket on the back for a jacket. the 2020+ model has mixed reviews, so unless you can find any old pre-2020 stock I probably wouldn't recommend it.
if I was buying something today, I'd probably go for the Arctos Epic 10.3 or 14.4, those look sweet (if a bit goofy) and Dario from PB seemed to like the 14.4.
Just an update, my pack came, it’s great quality, I can carry up to 4l (not comfortably, but it’s 4l) with the back protector pad installed. The pocket organization is wild and it doesn’t bounce on rides. Big fan of the lab austere. I think they’re selling off the rest of their stock right now too.
They are great until they fall apart when the seams disintegrate because cheap materials (and labor). If you feel like supporting a local business, consider High Above.
Yeah, my 7 year high above pack has been great. I don’t like their new pack layout but that’s just me.
How did it take yours to fall apart? I’m handy with a needle and thread so I’m not worried, but it’ll be good to know other’s experience.
Another vote for Lab Austere. They are sick packs with a ton of storage + a backprotector
It's been a few years since I tossed it but the seams fell apart because the fabric frayed. I should have added that it was the hip pack.
Good to know! I’ll keep an eye on mine. You’re right, High Above makes bomber hip packs, and I wish their backpack was bigger and used a center lock.
I know it kinda sounds like moaning, but nevertheless, an epilogue (apparently).
Since I last posted my above comments, I was on the line with the US customer support (who at least replied and said they will try to ping the EU reps). The EU reps first answered on 25th september (almost a month since the first email), then there was radio silence (I was in contact with the US reps and periodically pinged the EU e-mail in the mean time) until 2 days ago. Almost exactly 4 months later.
They said they don't have a spare part (the lumbar bladder) but that they can offer a 30 € voucher for what appears to me a random EU webshop to buy... another Dakine product (their words).
Lesson learned, always buy stuff that is as far away from proprietary as possible.
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