The Bikeconomics (Mega)Thread

ShapeThings
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7/22/2025 2:02pm
Going back to companies in desperate need of rationalizing SKUs, scrolling through just jerseys on Rapha's site:Pro Team Ghost, Pro Team Training, Core Jersey, Core Jersey...

Going back to companies in desperate need of rationalizing SKUs, scrolling through just jerseys on Rapha's site:

Pro Team Ghost, Pro Team Training, Core Jersey, Core Jersey Lightweight, Core Thermal, Pro Team Lightweight, Pro Team Training, Brevet, Brevet Element, Brevet Lightweight, Brevet Windstopper, Brevet Long Sleeve, Pro Team Long Sleeve Lightweight, Pro Team Long Sleeve Midweight, Pro Team Aero, Pro Team Windstopper, Classic Jersey, Pro Team Flaero, Classic Flyweight, Classic Long Sleeve, all of the team replica jerseys and one-offs I'm too lazy to type out.

All with 3-12 color options, sizes XS-XXL.

Cheesecake Factory menu take on product lines 

6
TEAMROBOT
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7/22/2025 2:13pm
Going back to companies in desperate need of rationalizing SKUs, scrolling through just jerseys on Rapha's site:Pro Team Ghost, Pro Team Training, Core Jersey, Core Jersey...

Going back to companies in desperate need of rationalizing SKUs, scrolling through just jerseys on Rapha's site:

Pro Team Ghost, Pro Team Training, Core Jersey, Core Jersey Lightweight, Core Thermal, Pro Team Lightweight, Pro Team Training, Brevet, Brevet Element, Brevet Lightweight, Brevet Windstopper, Brevet Long Sleeve, Pro Team Long Sleeve Lightweight, Pro Team Long Sleeve Midweight, Pro Team Aero, Pro Team Windstopper, Classic Jersey, Pro Team Flaero, Classic Flyweight, Classic Long Sleeve, all of the team replica jerseys and one-offs I'm too lazy to type out.

All with 3-12 color options, sizes XS-XXL.

As someone who has tried to understand their product lineup, I dare anyone to explain Rapha's road jersey collection to me.

5
7/22/2025 2:20pm

Isn’t a high sku count pretty much the norm for any apparel company especially one that’s trying to be “fashionable”.  And as long as your warehouse and ordering managers are in sync you really shouldn’t have much in the way of “waste”.  Especially if you are doing the occasional clearance sale.


I’d imagine the main issue is just the insane excess inventory when it comes to cycling apparel.  Specialized has been running 40-70 percent off damn near everything for over a year now and seemingly still has a lot of overstock.  Fox has had more discounts than usual.  Tld has plenty of stuff on sale year round rather than occasional sale and clearance stuff.  I’m sure it’s the same or worse in the road world.  Also seemingly everyone has an apparel line anymore.


Way too many options with more supply than demand.  But the margins that people are normally willing to pay for apparel versus bikes should give most of these companies a pretty decent buffer till the market settles.

3
ShapeThings
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7/22/2025 4:45pm

I’m not sure, as you alluded to, bike clothing is an insanely saturated segment. How much clothing do you need? My dresser drawers are at max capacity. I can’t imagine any apparel company is doing well right now, but an NF with a slightly more manageable scale is probably safer than Rapha? I wish specialized would update their shoe line, but may default to the freerider pro again. 

3
pinkrobe
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7/22/2025 5:59pm
Going back to companies in desperate need of rationalizing SKUs, scrolling through just jerseys on Rapha's site:Pro Team Ghost, Pro Team Training, Core Jersey, Core Jersey...

Going back to companies in desperate need of rationalizing SKUs, scrolling through just jerseys on Rapha's site:

Pro Team Ghost, Pro Team Training, Core Jersey, Core Jersey Lightweight, Core Thermal, Pro Team Lightweight, Pro Team Training, Brevet, Brevet Element, Brevet Lightweight, Brevet Windstopper, Brevet Long Sleeve, Pro Team Long Sleeve Lightweight, Pro Team Long Sleeve Midweight, Pro Team Aero, Pro Team Windstopper, Classic Jersey, Pro Team Flaero, Classic Flyweight, Classic Long Sleeve, all of the team replica jerseys and one-offs I'm too lazy to type out.

All with 3-12 color options, sizes XS-XXL.

TEAMROBOT wrote:

As someone who has tried to understand their product lineup, I dare anyone to explain Rapha's road jersey collection to me.

*sets down beer*

Pro Team variations - fit is too tight for anyone with a body fat higher than 5%, but that won't stop a dedicated MAMIL [see also: Lampre Man]. Aspirational[?]. Very tight fit. Replicas of jerseys from every race team they sponsor, plus non-logo versions of the same. Tight, yo.

Core - regular road jerseys for warm weather riding. The fit is what most would consider snug but doable.

Brevet - merino version of the Core line, with more pockets. MAMIL-tolerant.

Classic - MAMIL-friendly merino, very comfy on brisk days. 

 

15
TEAMROBOT
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7/22/2025 6:26pm
pinkrobe wrote:
*sets down beer*Pro Team variations - fit is too tight for anyone with a body fat higher than 5%, but that won't stop a dedicated MAMIL...

*sets down beer*

Pro Team variations - fit is too tight for anyone with a body fat higher than 5%, but that won't stop a dedicated MAMIL [see also: Lampre Man]. Aspirational[?]. Very tight fit. Replicas of jerseys from every race team they sponsor, plus non-logo versions of the same. Tight, yo.

Core - regular road jerseys for warm weather riding. The fit is what most would consider snug but doable.

Brevet - merino version of the Core line, with more pockets. MAMIL-tolerant.

Classic - MAMIL-friendly merino, very comfy on brisk days. 

 

Shockingly clear explanation. My apologies to everyone for this helpful but nonetheless off-topic diversion.

13
boozed
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7/22/2025 7:31pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2025 7:42pm
My version of what I think Robot was saying is that the issue is the industry is run by enthusiasts.  I intentionally use "issue" instead of...

My version of what I think Robot was saying is that the issue is the industry is run by enthusiasts.  I intentionally use "issue" instead of "problem," because I want my bikes designed by people who are passionate about riding bikes.  But mixing passion for the sport with running a business in the sport can lead to the sort of irrational exuberance we saw during the COVID boom.  I don't follow the financial news closely so I may be way off, but can you imagine the CEO of General Motors saying, "We just build the trucks we want to drive"?

I don't think that devalues the CFO work at all.  I'm an inch wide and mile deep professionally, and additionally have the great misfortune of working for a publicly traded company.  Like others, I understand not being listened to by management.  I focus on having a sense of pride in my craft and knowing that I gave good and thorough advice.

Jeff - I've enjoyed your posts greatly.  I generally don't find this sort of subject matter interesting, but I've found this thread fascinating and learned a lot.  I hope you'll keep singing solely for the sake of the song.

Also, a huge and sincere thank you to all the people with actual insider industry knowledge who come on here and share.

Jeff, Robot, and all: thanks everyone for your insights in this thread. It's by far my favorite on Vital and Vital is the only forum I...

Jeff, Robot, and all: thanks everyone for your insights in this thread. It's by far my favorite on Vital and Vital is the only forum I engage with on a regular basis. I've learned a ton from all of you, particularly on the business side (and maybe more than I care to about flex stays). 

My friend Roger has a saying that an offer is only as good as a take. I interpret that as being basically the same as "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." Not to get too specific, but I feel like I've offered more than has been taken in my career, so I get why the comment yesterday stung. Who knows what all went down at these companies, but there's a fair chance smart folks in finance raised concerns but were ignored or overruled. 

On the automotive tangent, GM is proof that a gigantic corporation can still do some really cool shit if the will to do so exists. Look at the Corvette program, or the fact that you can buy a friggin' Cadillac with a supercharged V8 AND a 6-speed manual for evidence!

*edit to add picture of CT5-V Blackwing 668 hp / 659 lb-ft of torque

vehicle image

Not to rain on the GM hype parade, but let’s not rewrite history…Back in the ‘08–‘09 mess, GM took a fat bailout – over $50B from...

Not to rain on the GM hype parade, but let’s not rewrite history…

Back in the ‘08–‘09 mess, GM took a fat bailout – over $50B from the U.S. government. They went full bankruptcy, government owned a chunk, and when all was said and done, taxpayers ate like $11B in losses. Not exactly a heroic brand imo.

Ford?
They saw the writing on the wall early, leveraged everything (even mortgaged the damn blue oval logo), and pre-borrowed $23B in 2006. Didn’t touch the TARP bailout like GM and Chrysler. They did take some smaller loans for tech stuff, but actually paid those back. No bankruptcy, no handouts, just smart people and a solid brand.

So yeah, GM’s doing some cool stuff now, but let’s not forget who needed a rescue and who handled their business.

All that being said, im excited to see Caddy in Formula One...I hope they bring back Palmer.

Possibly also worth noting that GM has sold off or shut down many of its international brands over the last decade.  Opel and Vauxhall were sold to PSA and are part of Stellantis now.  Holden simply evaporated...

GM's sole presence in those old markets is now low volume import specialty vehicles for cashed-up bogans such as Corvettes and emotional support trucks.

I couldn't find global brand sales in a hurry though so I don't know how much (or if) GM group sales have contracted significantly.

Edit: Just for laughs, I looked up Silverados near me.  Only one wasn't POA.  Thankfully they aren't selling very many.Blah.PNG?VersionId=  bHy16SOf0vn1AV5XnyzytVU0g.lxF

1
dolface
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7/23/2025 8:47am Edited Date/Time 7/23/2025 8:48am
LePigPen wrote:
Honestly their knee pads were so good if they focused more on practical apparel for MTB and less on rinsing roadies for everything they had, I...

Honestly their knee pads were so good if they focused more on practical apparel for MTB and less on rinsing roadies for everything they had, I feel like they could do very well. That said, I thought rinsing roadies for their last penny was a nearly recession-proof model. Kinda like a constant of the universe. Death, taxes, roadies overpaying for microscopic gains to their cycling experience...

Need to grab another pair before they can't be found anymore.

Might be too late; I just tried to order some and got a cancellation notice a few hours later saying they couldn't ship them due to PFAS regulations (I'm in the US fwiw).

3
LePigPen
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7/23/2025 8:55am
LePigPen wrote:
Honestly their knee pads were so good if they focused more on practical apparel for MTB and less on rinsing roadies for everything they had, I...

Honestly their knee pads were so good if they focused more on practical apparel for MTB and less on rinsing roadies for everything they had, I feel like they could do very well. That said, I thought rinsing roadies for their last penny was a nearly recession-proof model. Kinda like a constant of the universe. Death, taxes, roadies overpaying for microscopic gains to their cycling experience...

Need to grab another pair before they can't be found anymore.

dolface wrote:
Might be too late; I just tried to order some and got a cancellation notice a few hours later saying they couldn't ship them due to...

Might be too late; I just tried to order some and got a cancellation notice a few hours later saying they couldn't ship them due to PFAS regulations (I'm in the US fwiw).

uhhhhhhhhhhh should I be concerned?? lol 

afaic im shoving micro plastics and what not in my body all day with modern food and wearing modern clothes (didnt old goretex have a big problem?) but is rapha the only one not selling knee pads cuz they are too toxic? 

Primoz
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7/23/2025 8:59am Edited Date/Time 7/23/2025 9:00am

Everything PFAS is getting a clampdown sooner or later. It's becoming the new leaded gasoline.

You shouldn't be concerned about kneepads specifically as those microplastics contain enough PFAS anyway. 

2
7/23/2025 9:49am

As long as we are comparing bikes to cars, I feel like its worth bringing up "sensible" builds and the fact that the industry responds somewhat by offering them. Maybe I am pipe dreaming but if the US had fewer walls around vehicle imports/laws and the companies stopped their cartel behavior we could see the $10,000 "Ripmo AF" Toyota Truck here. I wonder if we will see more automaker behavior from the bike industry in the coming years. 

5
ShapeThings
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7/23/2025 10:21am
dolface wrote:
Might be too late; I just tried to order some and got a cancellation notice a few hours later saying they couldn't ship them due to...

Might be too late; I just tried to order some and got a cancellation notice a few hours later saying they couldn't ship them due to PFAS regulations (I'm in the US fwiw).

If you live in CA or NY, you will get blocked ordering items with PFAS. I tried ordering some Gore windblock baselayers and was shutdown. You can order from retailers who dgaf. (Overall, I approve of the legislation despite the hassle). 

5
AndehM
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7/23/2025 12:35pm
dolface wrote:
Might be too late; I just tried to order some and got a cancellation notice a few hours later saying they couldn't ship them due to...

Might be too late; I just tried to order some and got a cancellation notice a few hours later saying they couldn't ship them due to PFAS regulations (I'm in the US fwiw).

If you live in CA or NY, you will get blocked ordering items with PFAS. I tried ordering some Gore windblock baselayers and was shutdown. You...

If you live in CA or NY, you will get blocked ordering items with PFAS. I tried ordering some Gore windblock baselayers and was shutdown. You can order from retailers who dgaf. (Overall, I approve of the legislation despite the hassle). 

It's fucking stupid to block the sale IMO because the stuff is already made and if it doesn't get sold and used, it'll just get sent to a landfill and enter waterways anyways.  Prohibit import into the country, fine, but blocking the sale of these items in CA just NIMBYs the problem.  I was unable to buy a set of POC elbow pads from Backcountry & Jenson because they apparently have PFAS, but was able to from Amazon.  Last winter we got a super nice Arc'teryx snowboarding jacket (complete with GoreTex PFAS) for my wife for like 50% off but had to ship it to a buddy in OR who forwarded it on to us.

3
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Mwood
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7/23/2025 12:40pm

Not to beat the dead horse, but my wife gets these Term Sheet emails everyday about the tech world, and today's was on YT. https://fortune.com/2025/07/23/the-insolvency-of-ardian-backed-mountain-biking-company-yt-industries-underscores-just-how-much-tariffs-have-shaken-the-biking-industry/

Good read, but nothing ground breaking, other than rappers and Walmart heirs at YT parties. It's more the fact it's being covered by such a prominent publication that surprises me. 

5
7/23/2025 12:59pm
Jeff, Robot, and all: thanks everyone for your insights in this thread. It's by far my favorite on Vital and Vital is the only forum I...

Jeff, Robot, and all: thanks everyone for your insights in this thread. It's by far my favorite on Vital and Vital is the only forum I engage with on a regular basis. I've learned a ton from all of you, particularly on the business side (and maybe more than I care to about flex stays). 

My friend Roger has a saying that an offer is only as good as a take. I interpret that as being basically the same as "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink." Not to get too specific, but I feel like I've offered more than has been taken in my career, so I get why the comment yesterday stung. Who knows what all went down at these companies, but there's a fair chance smart folks in finance raised concerns but were ignored or overruled. 

On the automotive tangent, GM is proof that a gigantic corporation can still do some really cool shit if the will to do so exists. Look at the Corvette program, or the fact that you can buy a friggin' Cadillac with a supercharged V8 AND a 6-speed manual for evidence!

*edit to add picture of CT5-V Blackwing 668 hp / 659 lb-ft of torque

vehicle image

Not to rain on the GM hype parade, but let’s not rewrite history…Back in the ‘08–‘09 mess, GM took a fat bailout – over $50B from...

Not to rain on the GM hype parade, but let’s not rewrite history…

Back in the ‘08–‘09 mess, GM took a fat bailout – over $50B from the U.S. government. They went full bankruptcy, government owned a chunk, and when all was said and done, taxpayers ate like $11B in losses. Not exactly a heroic brand imo.

Ford?
They saw the writing on the wall early, leveraged everything (even mortgaged the damn blue oval logo), and pre-borrowed $23B in 2006. Didn’t touch the TARP bailout like GM and Chrysler. They did take some smaller loans for tech stuff, but actually paid those back. No bankruptcy, no handouts, just smart people and a solid brand.

So yeah, GM’s doing some cool stuff now, but let’s not forget who needed a rescue and who handled their business.

All that being said, im excited to see Caddy in Formula One...I hope they bring back Palmer.

boozed wrote:
Possibly also worth noting that GM has sold off or shut down many of its international brands over the last decade.  Opel and Vauxhall were sold...

Possibly also worth noting that GM has sold off or shut down many of its international brands over the last decade.  Opel and Vauxhall were sold to PSA and are part of Stellantis now.  Holden simply evaporated...

GM's sole presence in those old markets is now low volume import specialty vehicles for cashed-up bogans such as Corvettes and emotional support trucks.

I couldn't find global brand sales in a hurry though so I don't know how much (or if) GM group sales have contracted significantly.

Edit: Just for laughs, I looked up Silverados near me.  Only one wasn't POA.  Thankfully they aren't selling very many.Blah.PNG?VersionId=  bHy16SOf0vn1AV5XnyzytVU0g.lxF

just as a side note about holden, Holden got bailed out in Australia - which wasnt helped by The damn Union they had, They wanted their almost no skill assembly jobs paying higher than most other jobs in Australia.
Unions in Aus and NZ are serious poison to any company and it's workers, especially the MWU. 
I've been apart of several as a worker and man they just hold union meetings to suck as much money from a company as possible without any care to their members actual job retention.(there is kids straight out of school with no skills earning atleast $40p/h.)

Not sure how well unions work elsewhere but here and Australia they are awful Groups(they are essentially their own business)

2
13
LePigPen
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7/23/2025 1:08pm

It's definitely interesting to explore the supplier/quality issues Markus mentioned... But at the same time that sounds like something EVERY brand was dealing with even before covid and then even much worse during and post-covid. But it's kinda interesting to bring that up like, well actually the problem is we could just barely get bikes in to sell (with all the demand!)... While they make bikes nearly 50% off and still haven't sold out of much of anything.

But I know they have a lot of bikes, maybe most listings, as 'coming soon' and those numbers are probably never accurate if online customers are to be believed... But I do wonder how that plays into the V O L U M E strategy of getting out of a hole. If you are ok with slim margins and high volume of sales as your strategy, but you're squeezing your supplier dry of blood in terms of workforce/conditions/demands/requests what have you... It sounds like you create a bottleneck. To where even if there WAS demand (which is fairly logical given representation online and at trailheads) and you were accepting of slim margins... It was never going to work out. You need the popular models (size medium jeffsys and capras i reckon) at all times to try to sell your way out of debt...

HexonJuan
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7/23/2025 2:19pm Edited Date/Time 7/23/2025 2:20pm
Not to rain on the GM hype parade, but let’s not rewrite history…Back in the ‘08–‘09 mess, GM took a fat bailout – over $50B from...

Not to rain on the GM hype parade, but let’s not rewrite history…

Back in the ‘08–‘09 mess, GM took a fat bailout – over $50B from the U.S. government. They went full bankruptcy, government owned a chunk, and when all was said and done, taxpayers ate like $11B in losses. Not exactly a heroic brand imo.

Ford?
They saw the writing on the wall early, leveraged everything (even mortgaged the damn blue oval logo), and pre-borrowed $23B in 2006. Didn’t touch the TARP bailout like GM and Chrysler. They did take some smaller loans for tech stuff, but actually paid those back. No bankruptcy, no handouts, just smart people and a solid brand.

So yeah, GM’s doing some cool stuff now, but let’s not forget who needed a rescue and who handled their business.

All that being said, im excited to see Caddy in Formula One...I hope they bring back Palmer.

boozed wrote:
Possibly also worth noting that GM has sold off or shut down many of its international brands over the last decade.  Opel and Vauxhall were sold...

Possibly also worth noting that GM has sold off or shut down many of its international brands over the last decade.  Opel and Vauxhall were sold to PSA and are part of Stellantis now.  Holden simply evaporated...

GM's sole presence in those old markets is now low volume import specialty vehicles for cashed-up bogans such as Corvettes and emotional support trucks.

I couldn't find global brand sales in a hurry though so I don't know how much (or if) GM group sales have contracted significantly.

Edit: Just for laughs, I looked up Silverados near me.  Only one wasn't POA.  Thankfully they aren't selling very many.Blah.PNG?VersionId=  bHy16SOf0vn1AV5XnyzytVU0g.lxF

just as a side note about holden, Holden got bailed out in Australia - which wasnt helped by The damn Union they had, They wanted their...

just as a side note about holden, Holden got bailed out in Australia - which wasnt helped by The damn Union they had, They wanted their almost no skill assembly jobs paying higher than most other jobs in Australia.
Unions in Aus and NZ are serious poison to any company and it's workers, especially the MWU. 
I've been apart of several as a worker and man they just hold union meetings to suck as much money from a company as possible without any care to their members actual job retention.(there is kids straight out of school with no skills earning atleast $40p/h.)

Not sure how well unions work elsewhere but here and Australia they are awful Groups(they are essentially their own business)

Not gonna up or downvote you because I don't think either is warranted. Ages ago, I worked a very end user and industry facing role. I was paid squat. And while part of me didn't mind, part of me was chafed as hell because the union pickpackers were making at minimum $5/hr more than I with considerably better benes. So, I was ranting to my pop about it and he told me one thing that has stuck with me and it was simply, "maybe if they're getting paid more than you for less responsibility the problem isn't theirs for being in a union than it is yours for not being in one." That stuck, and while I never found myself working a union role (yet, ya never know) I never disparaged any union or union worker since. 

15
AndehM
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7/23/2025 2:32pm
boozed wrote:
Possibly also worth noting that GM has sold off or shut down many of its international brands over the last decade.  Opel and Vauxhall were sold...

Possibly also worth noting that GM has sold off or shut down many of its international brands over the last decade.  Opel and Vauxhall were sold to PSA and are part of Stellantis now.  Holden simply evaporated...

GM's sole presence in those old markets is now low volume import specialty vehicles for cashed-up bogans such as Corvettes and emotional support trucks.

I couldn't find global brand sales in a hurry though so I don't know how much (or if) GM group sales have contracted significantly.

Edit: Just for laughs, I looked up Silverados near me.  Only one wasn't POA.  Thankfully they aren't selling very many.Blah.PNG?VersionId=  bHy16SOf0vn1AV5XnyzytVU0g.lxF

just as a side note about holden, Holden got bailed out in Australia - which wasnt helped by The damn Union they had, They wanted their...

just as a side note about holden, Holden got bailed out in Australia - which wasnt helped by The damn Union they had, They wanted their almost no skill assembly jobs paying higher than most other jobs in Australia.
Unions in Aus and NZ are serious poison to any company and it's workers, especially the MWU. 
I've been apart of several as a worker and man they just hold union meetings to suck as much money from a company as possible without any care to their members actual job retention.(there is kids straight out of school with no skills earning atleast $40p/h.)

Not sure how well unions work elsewhere but here and Australia they are awful Groups(they are essentially their own business)

HexonJuan wrote:
Not gonna up or downvote you because I don't think either is warranted. Ages ago, I worked a very end user and industry facing role. I...

Not gonna up or downvote you because I don't think either is warranted. Ages ago, I worked a very end user and industry facing role. I was paid squat. And while part of me didn't mind, part of me was chafed as hell because the union pickpackers were making at minimum $5/hr more than I with considerably better benes. So, I was ranting to my pop about it and he told me one thing that has stuck with me and it was simply, "maybe if they're getting paid more than you for less responsibility the problem isn't theirs for being in a union than it is yours for not being in one." That stuck, and while I never found myself working a union role (yet, ya never know) I never disparaged any union or union worker since. 

Just like human beings, there are good unions and bad unions.  My brother is a union firefighter, and that union goes to bat for the members making sure the city rightfully has to pay for disability and injury caused by a hazardous line of work.  I work at a construction company in the office, and we have union crane operators who earn on average a lot more than I do (non-union salaried), but I don't begrudge them for that.  I have job security even in recessions and they get no hours when there's no work.  When we go to "right to work" states, we still use union operators and pay them more than local prevailing wage, per our union agreement.  It makes us less competitive at an hourly rate, but on the other hand it lets us hire the best operators because we pay more, so we have higher productivity.  On the other hand, when we go and do projects in certain states with fairly corrupt unions (*cough* New York), everyone loses out there except the union bosses.

5
7/23/2025 3:39pm Edited Date/Time 7/23/2025 3:43pm
AndehM wrote:
Just like human beings, there are good unions and bad unions.  My brother is a union firefighter, and that union goes to bat for the members...

Just like human beings, there are good unions and bad unions.  My brother is a union firefighter, and that union goes to bat for the members making sure the city rightfully has to pay for disability and injury caused by a hazardous line of work.  I work at a construction company in the office, and we have union crane operators who earn on average a lot more than I do (non-union salaried), but I don't begrudge them for that.  I have job security even in recessions and they get no hours when there's no work.  When we go to "right to work" states, we still use union operators and pay them more than local prevailing wage, per our union agreement.  It makes us less competitive at an hourly rate, but on the other hand it lets us hire the best operators because we pay more, so we have higher productivity.  On the other hand, when we go and do projects in certain states with fairly corrupt unions (*cough* New York), everyone loses out there except the union bosses.

I agree but for some of ours, We have guys putting Stuff in boxes or moving something A to B in a room etc on $40/ph.

previous job: (for reference I was in a management position) our entry Labor Wage is $29, which everyone gets at min, Which IMO is considerably to high and Gets close to many of the guys who have been there and loyal for 20 years+.

as a side note From connections (friends etc) - 18 months ago a meat works was told to cut costs or plant Will shut - the Union pushed for higher wages at that plant and leaked MWU meeting said they didnt care and that was the companies fault(for a Falling Meat price margin market )  so instead of Keeping their members employed They Had them jobless at Xmas'24 - 600 people out of a job a few weeks before christmas. https://www.stuff.co.nz/rural/350432833/declining-sheep-numbers-last-straw-smithfield-plant
'declining sheep numbers' is The media excuse to prevent the Digging.
which is essentially what happened to Car Manufacturers in Australia being Toyota, Ford and Holden.

Please dont get me wrong, Im all for Fair pay/wages But often It's just taking the piss.

4
TEAMROBOT
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7/23/2025 4:22pm

PSA NOT A UNION POLITICS THREAD

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ejj
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Location
Minneapolis, MN US
7/23/2025 4:31pm
just as a side note about holden, Holden got bailed out in Australia - which wasnt helped by The damn Union they had, They wanted their...

just as a side note about holden, Holden got bailed out in Australia - which wasnt helped by The damn Union they had, They wanted their almost no skill assembly jobs paying higher than most other jobs in Australia.
Unions in Aus and NZ are serious poison to any company and it's workers, especially the MWU. 
I've been apart of several as a worker and man they just hold union meetings to suck as much money from a company as possible without any care to their members actual job retention.(there is kids straight out of school with no skills earning atleast $40p/h.)

Not sure how well unions work elsewhere but here and Australia they are awful Groups(they are essentially their own business)

As mentioned, Unions can be tough. They also can be pretty great for workers safety, health care, unfair labor practices, etc.  

I hear many complaints about work regulations these days and how tough they are. We need practical laws, of course. We also need to remember that almost of those work protections were written in blood. 

4
2
7/23/2025 7:36pm
just as a side note about holden, Holden got bailed out in Australia - which wasnt helped by The damn Union they had, They wanted their...

just as a side note about holden, Holden got bailed out in Australia - which wasnt helped by The damn Union they had, They wanted their almost no skill assembly jobs paying higher than most other jobs in Australia.
Unions in Aus and NZ are serious poison to any company and it's workers, especially the MWU. 
I've been apart of several as a worker and man they just hold union meetings to suck as much money from a company as possible without any care to their members actual job retention.(there is kids straight out of school with no skills earning atleast $40p/h.)

Not sure how well unions work elsewhere but here and Australia they are awful Groups(they are essentially their own business)

curious why people are downvoting?
are they happy Their these groups are doing their best to make sure people lose their jobs?

I was purely pointing out, Unions while good for most, can also be the opposite depending on whos running them.

1
9
owl-x
Posts
907
Joined
3/23/2016
Location
Shell Beach, CA US
7/23/2025 9:37pm
Mwood wrote:
Not to beat the dead horse, but my wife gets these Term Sheet emails everyday about the tech world, and today's was on YT. https://fortune.com/2025/07/23/the-insolvency-of-ardian-backed-mountain-biking-company-yt-industries-underscores-just-how-much-tariffs-have-shaken-the-biking-industry/Good...

Not to beat the dead horse, but my wife gets these Term Sheet emails everyday about the tech world, and today's was on YT. https://fortune.com/2025/07/23/the-insolvency-of-ardian-backed-mountain-biking-company-yt-industries-underscores-just-how-much-tariffs-have-shaken-the-biking-industry/

Good read, but nothing ground breaking, other than rappers and Walmart heirs at YT parties. It's more the fact it's being covered by such a prominent publication that surprises me. 

Wheeeeeeeee!!!

 

1
7/24/2025 7:08am

Since YT is being discussed in depth here, I figured a link to today's launch of the new Decoy would be appropriate: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/e-bikes/yt/decoy-67731#product-reviews-653291 

A statement from YT regarding the current restructuring:

“We are currently undergoing a legal restructuring to put YT Industries on a strong and sustainable path for the future.

If you placed an order before July 15th, please note that—due to legal regulations—it may be part of the restructuring process and will be reviewed individually. Our customer service team is already reaching out to affected customers to provide clarity and support.

Orders placed on or after July 15th are not affected and will be fulfilled as usual.

With the launch of the new DECOY, we’re excited to give you a first look at what’s next. This is just the beginning. Availability will be shown as ‘Coming Soon’, as we continue to stand by our policy of not offering pre-orders. Stay tuned — more bikes are coming soon!

*this only affects GmbH (EU), our USA entity remains unaffected.”

4
7/24/2025 7:09am

The only union we should be talking about is the one run by Steel City Media. 

13
7/24/2025 7:40am
iceman2058 wrote:
Since YT is being discussed in depth here, I figured a link to today's launch of the new Decoy would be appropriate: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/e-bikes/yt/decoy-67731#product-reviews-653291 A statement from...

Since YT is being discussed in depth here, I figured a link to today's launch of the new Decoy would be appropriate: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/e-bikes/yt/decoy-67731#product-reviews-653291 

A statement from YT regarding the current restructuring:

“We are currently undergoing a legal restructuring to put YT Industries on a strong and sustainable path for the future.

If you placed an order before July 15th, please note that—due to legal regulations—it may be part of the restructuring process and will be reviewed individually. Our customer service team is already reaching out to affected customers to provide clarity and support.

Orders placed on or after July 15th are not affected and will be fulfilled as usual.

With the launch of the new DECOY, we’re excited to give you a first look at what’s next. This is just the beginning. Availability will be shown as ‘Coming Soon’, as we continue to stand by our policy of not offering pre-orders. Stay tuned — more bikes are coming soon!

*this only affects GmbH (EU), our USA entity remains unaffected.”

We’ve all seen the “clarity and support” email they sent out. LOL

 

4
LePigPen
Posts
978
Joined
12/23/2020
Location
Harbor City, CA US
Fantasy
7/24/2025 7:49am

At least they finally read the room and released a Bosch motor e-bike.

I'm just waiting for some typical SoCal guy to buy the core 1 and then swap out the fork (and then sell me that beautiful white Bomber) 

6
1
PisgahGnar
Posts
381
Joined
6/30/2021
Location
Hendersonville, NC US
7/24/2025 8:49am

Posted a comment on the other site, but this statement is pretty shitty "If you placed an order before July 15th, please note that—due to legal regulations—it may be part of the restructuring process and will be reviewed individually." 

No, YT, you made the choice to prioritize short-term cash flow by screwing over customers. There are well-established legal options for protecting customer payments from becoming part of an insolvency estate. You could have used an escrow or trust account from the outset, structured payments to transfer only upon delivery, or at the very least paused sales and issued a clear warning once insolvency was on the table. These are proactive, legal mechanisms companies use to protect consumers, and you deliberately chose not to use them. Instead, you ran a flash sale to rake in cash from unsuspecting buyers, knowing full well their payments had zero protection. Legally, they’re unsecured creditors now but that’s because you chose that path. 

23
7/24/2025 8:55am

Bike Rumor reporting Intense exiting UK and EU markets "citing ongoing economic challenges in the global cycling industry."

Somehow incredibly not surprising. 

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