2025 Team Rumors

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metadave
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12/9/2024 6:45am
mitialex wrote:
Doesn’t that look like Charlie Hatton?
IMG 8540.png?VersionId=lTh

Doesn’t that look like Charlie Hatton?

Looks like he's in endura/atherton gear so while its possible, he could just be there with his pals riding while they test?

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chriskief
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12/9/2024 6:47am
sspomer wrote:

3 trek vans at the top of telonics today in plain sight. lachie was present.

Mr.Nally wrote:
so much for the rumor of trek cutting racing budgets, three vans in socal , with riders and staff! Already spending and it's not even 2025...

so much for the rumor of trek cutting racing budgets, three vans in socal , with riders and staff! Already spending and it's not even 2025 😁

No offense to the new riders, but Trek's strategy appears to be switching to lower-cost riders for 2025.

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chriskief
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12/9/2024 6:58am
Calling commencal a family team is like calling Koch industries a family business.  And that’s not a rip on max commencal.  He is good for the...

Calling commencal a family team is like calling Koch industries a family business.  And that’s not a rip on max commencal.  He is good for the sport.  But you wouldn’t call specialized a family team if it was sinyard bikes.  You wouldn’t call Santa Cruz a family team when roskopp was coming to the races.
Isn’t the rumor that atherton is leaving the wc scene?
To me that essentially leaves frameworks.  Which is a bit hard to believe will continues after next season though I hope neko and Logan are able to make it happen.  Seems pretty insane that a very popular team that’s been incredibly successful in a very short time on minimal budget seems unlikely to be sustainable.
 

I also do not understand how you believe giving more power to the eso and sponsors is supposed to improve rider safety?  Seems like an incredibly backwards way to improve it.  Hasn’t pretty much every commencal rider you mentioned injured themselves riding hurt for that team (specifically head injuries).  Shouldn’t the eso be creating straightforward criteria that allows injured riders to return to the wc scene without the needs of an arbitrarily determined “wildcard spot” or a team of other talented riders.  Shouldn’t there be protection to allow top riders to mitigate risk in a highly dangerous sport over the course of a race weekend?  Especially considering their points at the end of the season is effectively their value to teams and eso now?

 

Mr.Nally wrote:
Commecnal Muc-off team is owned and run by the Ruffin brothers as far as I know and I'm pretty sure their parents still work for the...

Commecnal Muc-off team is owned and run by the Ruffin brothers as far as I know and I'm pretty sure their parents still work for the team? Someone else might know more in here. But basically the story is Thibaut Ruffin got injured while racing years back, and as he was recovering he put effort into starting his own team (sponsors, van etc..) and went racing with the family the next year in a camper van. The team has grown from there to what it is now, still owned and operated by the same family.

In terms of safety, what I mean is its easier to mandate things like concussion protocols or medical care/allowance in riders contracts or have a race doctor on site at racers or medical care like imagining and diagnostics when you don't have 600+ riders site for an XCO/DH race or 400 for DH. Less numbers, less teams = more chance of professionalization and mandates of safety related things. 


As for returning after injury, looks like the injury and pregnancy status rules still exist, but mainly from 2026 onwards top ranking teams will have 2-3 year contracts to race in world cup, so if a top rider misses a season, they'll just slot back in the year after. but whatever, as per if anyone says anything that looks positive towrds WBD they get attacked

That story of how the team got started is what made the sport awesome.

Sadly no longer possible under this new structure you keep defending.

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1
12/9/2024 7:10am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2024 7:12am
Calling commencal a family team is like calling Koch industries a family business.  And that’s not a rip on max commencal.  He is good for the...

Calling commencal a family team is like calling Koch industries a family business.  And that’s not a rip on max commencal.  He is good for the sport.  But you wouldn’t call specialized a family team if it was sinyard bikes.  You wouldn’t call Santa Cruz a family team when roskopp was coming to the races.
Isn’t the rumor that atherton is leaving the wc scene?
To me that essentially leaves frameworks.  Which is a bit hard to believe will continues after next season though I hope neko and Logan are able to make it happen.  Seems pretty insane that a very popular team that’s been incredibly successful in a very short time on minimal budget seems unlikely to be sustainable.
 

I also do not understand how you believe giving more power to the eso and sponsors is supposed to improve rider safety?  Seems like an incredibly backwards way to improve it.  Hasn’t pretty much every commencal rider you mentioned injured themselves riding hurt for that team (specifically head injuries).  Shouldn’t the eso be creating straightforward criteria that allows injured riders to return to the wc scene without the needs of an arbitrarily determined “wildcard spot” or a team of other talented riders.  Shouldn’t there be protection to allow top riders to mitigate risk in a highly dangerous sport over the course of a race weekend?  Especially considering their points at the end of the season is effectively their value to teams and eso now?

 

Mr.Nally wrote:
Commecnal Muc-off team is owned and run by the Ruffin brothers as far as I know and I'm pretty sure their parents still work for the...

Commecnal Muc-off team is owned and run by the Ruffin brothers as far as I know and I'm pretty sure their parents still work for the team? Someone else might know more in here. But basically the story is Thibaut Ruffin got injured while racing years back, and as he was recovering he put effort into starting his own team (sponsors, van etc..) and went racing with the family the next year in a camper van. The team has grown from there to what it is now, still owned and operated by the same family.

In terms of safety, what I mean is its easier to mandate things like concussion protocols or medical care/allowance in riders contracts or have a race doctor on site at racers or medical care like imagining and diagnostics when you don't have 600+ riders site for an XCO/DH race or 400 for DH. Less numbers, less teams = more chance of professionalization and mandates of safety related things. 


As for returning after injury, looks like the injury and pregnancy status rules still exist, but mainly from 2026 onwards top ranking teams will have 2-3 year contracts to race in world cup, so if a top rider misses a season, they'll just slot back in the year after. but whatever, as per if anyone says anything that looks positive towrds WBD they get attacked

I was going to private message you but you have it turned off.  I don’t disagree wcs needed their fields cut down for logistical reasons.  I do disagree greatly with how the eso is doing it.  And disagree greatly that their goals align in reality with riders best interests.  

But hey if a company that’s nearly 50 billion in debt and a race director who effectively destroyed the majority of professional opportunities in the race series that made him famous doesn’t deserve criticism and caution well I simply don’t know who does.


Thanks for correcting me on the origins of commencal/mucoff.  But I think the point still stands that the power is in the hands of wealthy sponsors and their chosen team managers.  It makes it incredibly hard for a rider to choose sponsors purely based on personal benefit.  And in a sport where returns are purely in marketing.  Where there is no money to be made for the teams from advertising or ticket sales.  In a sport where costs are skyrocketing, the bike industry is struggling, and big money sponsors are hard to come by.  It seems like limiting viewers, limiting equally skilled and popular participants, and limiting potential sponsors is the type of moronic ego driven management decisions that stifle and hinder the property they are supposed to be serving.  

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Brian_Peterson
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12/9/2024 7:16am
chriskief wrote:

No offense to the new riders, but Trek's strategy appears to be switching to lower-cost riders for 2025.

Was kinda thinking that myself.. If the budget has been cut back and the established players don't want to take a pay cut,  you sign some young up and comers who are willing to sign for less or find someone who is experienced but on the downside of the career that can help mentor the young guns and contribute to bike development..

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HBoogie
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Niantic, CT US
12/9/2024 7:39am
Calling commencal a family team is like calling Koch industries a family business.  And that’s not a rip on max commencal.  He is good for the...

Calling commencal a family team is like calling Koch industries a family business.  And that’s not a rip on max commencal.  He is good for the sport.  But you wouldn’t call specialized a family team if it was sinyard bikes.  You wouldn’t call Santa Cruz a family team when roskopp was coming to the races.
Isn’t the rumor that atherton is leaving the wc scene?
To me that essentially leaves frameworks.  Which is a bit hard to believe will continues after next season though I hope neko and Logan are able to make it happen.  Seems pretty insane that a very popular team that’s been incredibly successful in a very short time on minimal budget seems unlikely to be sustainable.
 

I also do not understand how you believe giving more power to the eso and sponsors is supposed to improve rider safety?  Seems like an incredibly backwards way to improve it.  Hasn’t pretty much every commencal rider you mentioned injured themselves riding hurt for that team (specifically head injuries).  Shouldn’t the eso be creating straightforward criteria that allows injured riders to return to the wc scene without the needs of an arbitrarily determined “wildcard spot” or a team of other talented riders.  Shouldn’t there be protection to allow top riders to mitigate risk in a highly dangerous sport over the course of a race weekend?  Especially considering their points at the end of the season is effectively their value to teams and eso now?

 

Mr.Nally wrote:
Commecnal Muc-off team is owned and run by the Ruffin brothers as far as I know and I'm pretty sure their parents still work for the...

Commecnal Muc-off team is owned and run by the Ruffin brothers as far as I know and I'm pretty sure their parents still work for the team? Someone else might know more in here. But basically the story is Thibaut Ruffin got injured while racing years back, and as he was recovering he put effort into starting his own team (sponsors, van etc..) and went racing with the family the next year in a camper van. The team has grown from there to what it is now, still owned and operated by the same family.

In terms of safety, what I mean is its easier to mandate things like concussion protocols or medical care/allowance in riders contracts or have a race doctor on site at racers or medical care like imagining and diagnostics when you don't have 600+ riders site for an XCO/DH race or 400 for DH. Less numbers, less teams = more chance of professionalization and mandates of safety related things. 


As for returning after injury, looks like the injury and pregnancy status rules still exist, but mainly from 2026 onwards top ranking teams will have 2-3 year contracts to race in world cup, so if a top rider misses a season, they'll just slot back in the year after. but whatever, as per if anyone says anything that looks positive towrds WBD they get attacked

chriskief wrote:

That story of how the team got started is what made the sport awesome.

Sadly no longer possible under this new structure you keep defending.

I think Frameworks is a great example of how it is still possible under the new structure... 

2
12/9/2024 8:02am
mitialex wrote:
Doesn’t that look like Charlie Hatton?
IMG 8540.png?VersionId=lTh

Doesn’t that look like Charlie Hatton?

metadave wrote:

Looks like he's in endura/atherton gear so while its possible, he could just be there with his pals riding while they test?

Wonder if he just hasn’t had the A’stars kit yet?

chriskief
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New York, NY US
12/9/2024 8:03am
Mr.Nally wrote:
Commecnal Muc-off team is owned and run by the Ruffin brothers as far as I know and I'm pretty sure their parents still work for the...

Commecnal Muc-off team is owned and run by the Ruffin brothers as far as I know and I'm pretty sure their parents still work for the team? Someone else might know more in here. But basically the story is Thibaut Ruffin got injured while racing years back, and as he was recovering he put effort into starting his own team (sponsors, van etc..) and went racing with the family the next year in a camper van. The team has grown from there to what it is now, still owned and operated by the same family.

In terms of safety, what I mean is its easier to mandate things like concussion protocols or medical care/allowance in riders contracts or have a race doctor on site at racers or medical care like imagining and diagnostics when you don't have 600+ riders site for an XCO/DH race or 400 for DH. Less numbers, less teams = more chance of professionalization and mandates of safety related things. 


As for returning after injury, looks like the injury and pregnancy status rules still exist, but mainly from 2026 onwards top ranking teams will have 2-3 year contracts to race in world cup, so if a top rider misses a season, they'll just slot back in the year after. but whatever, as per if anyone says anything that looks positive towrds WBD they get attacked

chriskief wrote:

That story of how the team got started is what made the sport awesome.

Sadly no longer possible under this new structure you keep defending.

HBoogie wrote:

I think Frameworks is a great example of how it is still possible under the new structure... 

Frameworks started prior to the 2025 team requirements.

Have we seen any confirmation of where they'll end up for 2025? I'd be surprised if they are one of the 15 World Series teams.

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12/9/2024 8:20am
chriskief wrote:

That story of how the team got started is what made the sport awesome.

Sadly no longer possible under this new structure you keep defending.

HBoogie wrote:

I think Frameworks is a great example of how it is still possible under the new structure... 

chriskief wrote:
Frameworks started prior to the 2025 team requirements.Have we seen any confirmation of where they'll end up for 2025? I'd be surprised if they are one...

Frameworks started prior to the 2025 team requirements.

Have we seen any confirmation of where they'll end up for 2025? I'd be surprised if they are one of the 15 World Series teams.

Frameworks will likely be in the top 15 ranked teams. Depending on what rumors you believe, by my calculations (see spreadsheet a few posts up), they will be somewhere between 11 and 15. Even if they are in the 15-20 range, they would likely get a wildcard due to their public image. 

I don't know if Neko will want to pay the fees to become a world series team, but Angel, Asa, and Anna (if she is going to be on the team) can all race the world cups based on their personal rankings. Neko himself is not ranked high enough to race. He may pay the team fees so that he can race, and the other riders can still race if they are injured for a time and lose points. 

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virxxu
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12/9/2024 9:13am
mitialex wrote:
Doesn’t that look like Charlie Hatton?
IMG 8540.png?VersionId=lTh

Doesn’t that look like Charlie Hatton?

metadave wrote:

Looks like he's in endura/atherton gear so while its possible, he could just be there with his pals riding while they test?

Wonder if he just hasn’t had the A’stars kit yet?

Hatton posted a story with the Atherton bike so I guess he’s still riding it, just enjoying Spain

5
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gibbon
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wales GB
12/9/2024 10:44am
mitialex wrote:
Doesn’t that look like Charlie Hatton?
IMG 8540.png?VersionId=lTh

Doesn’t that look like Charlie Hatton?

Charlies Atherton Dh bike is for sale.

1
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Samwell
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12/9/2024 10:59am
The spreadsheet is updated to calculate using the sum of only the top 4 scorers on a team, so hopefully closer to what next years' scoring...

The spreadsheet is updated to calculate using the sum of only the top 4 scorers on a team, so hopefully closer to what next years' scoring will look like. 

Also if you're editing it, please make sure if you're moving names around, that their current UCI DH points are correct. There have been a bunch already where people deleted one name and put another in without changing the points column. 

Great job !

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12/9/2024 11:07am

What's the deal with the Matt Walkers? I've seen rumors floating around about Matt Walker to Trek and don't know if the UK or NZ one is who it is. Also does the NZ one even have any UCI points? I can't find him in the standings. 

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12/9/2024 11:11am
metadave wrote:

Looks like he's in endura/atherton gear so while its possible, he could just be there with his pals riding while they test?

Wonder if he just hasn’t had the A’stars kit yet?

virxxu wrote:

Hatton posted a story with the Atherton bike so I guess he’s still riding it, just enjoying Spain

Yup, definitely the blue World Champs bike on the post.
It would be a shame to see Atherton Racing come to end, especially if it's only because of the rule changes. 
Xmas trip to Dyfi and if Dan is driving the uplift he's going to be grilled Tongue

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Gromcast
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12/9/2024 11:24am

New junior rider on the syndicate 🤫

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Outlawed
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12/9/2024 4:17pm

Brook bombing around on a GasGas ebike, instagram bio does not mention Forbidden

411231231111
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12/9/2024 6:08pm
Outlawed wrote:
Brook bombing around on a GasGas ebike, instagram bio does not mention Forbidden

Brook bombing around on a GasGas ebike, instagram bio does not mention Forbidden

411231231111

Also has gasgas directly tagged in his latest post, neither forbidden or forbidden synthesis are included. Fair bet that he's he's off to somewhere else for the upcoming season 

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metadave
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12/9/2024 7:55pm

I do remember that last year someone mentioned he'd only really gotten a bike deal from Forbidden and maybe it was just for a year to see how things were going to shake out on both sides. With all the changes coming up, maybe the Synthesis team is no more and haven't announced it yet. Maybe he'll be riding a re-branded Gasgas reg bike for Crankworx and redbull events and their E-bikes day to day? He'd be good pull for them. 

If Hyper can field athletes on one off bikes for what? 12-15 years now since they snagged Eric Carter back in the day and started building cool bikes? But have never actually sold one, I'm sure GasGas can do the same to market their E-bikes by someone whipping one around at Hardline

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kperras
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12/9/2024 10:01pm

Seems surprising given that GasGas' parent company is undergoing self administered bankruptcy. Can't be too much budget for them or Husqvarna in the cycling world.

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Gromcast
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12/10/2024 4:43am

Late to the party as usual 😂 

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jonkranked
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12/10/2024 5:57am
kperras wrote:

Seems surprising given that GasGas' parent company is undergoing self administered bankruptcy. Can't be too much budget for them or Husqvarna in the cycling world.

IIRC they are basically giving away their ebikes.  possible brook found a ticket for that free bike gravy train

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12/10/2024 6:56am
Gromcast wrote:

Late to the party as usual 😂 

Still, it's an interesting read. Plenty of opinions were aired 😉

1
Jotegr
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12/10/2024 7:53am Edited Date/Time 12/10/2024 8:24am
kperras wrote:

Seems surprising given that GasGas' parent company is undergoing self administered bankruptcy. Can't be too much budget for them or Husqvarna in the cycling world.

What's Brook going to help them do? Give away two Gasgas e-bikes with moto purchase? 

 

Obviously we want Brook to get his bag but it is a bit strange. 

 

Edit: On the other hand, I've seen a bunch of Gasgas ebikes in the wild but never under anyone who looks like they've ridden mountain bikes for more than a week. Brook can probably fix that. 

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Brian_Peterson
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12/10/2024 8:49am

Ellie Hulsebosch?

Tony Danza!! 

The person who down voted my comment needs a sense of humour. 

These team rumors are serious business and not to be joked about... 😆 

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