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Or the current one maybe.
And these are the points that determine a team’s standing?
I believe yes
So if you look at a rider you can see the points they have and see the current "value" that they for teams who need points to be in the top 15 UCI ranking.
yes
"For the UCI gravity team ranking, the riders individual UCI points in the first UCI individual ranking of the season calculated as per article 4.16.006 will be used to determine the UCI MTB WORLD SERIES DOWNHILL TEAM status."
a riders individual uci ranking (which the mtbdata page shows) is separate from the World Cup overall standings. https://www.uci.org/discipline/mountain-bike/4LArSj7CKcytMrGEDtKwkb?tab…
Gwin will be served by "profile of individual athletes" part of the selection.
I fear it's going to be a shitstorm when it comes to WBD allocating those wildcard spots. To my mind it should be teams ranked 15-20 (surely that's the fairest way?), but I doubt it will be that simple. I can see WBD jumping through a lot of hoops to get their preferred teams/riders in.
And in my opinion, this is the problem. It's going to come down to personal opinion & relationships & that's not a fair way to run a sport.
Interesting you frame it as total nepotism. When you could easily read the rule around how teams 15-20 might be selected as allowing the best races and teams that might provide the best support and care for riders access to the series. 15 teams selected on merit in a fairly objective way and 5 teams selected on a variety of criteria, that you'd hope is used to make sure teams that can provide healthy salaries for riders and staff and a safe environment for racers are selected.
Hardline and all of the other events run by Red Bull have rider selections based on relationships and opinion, and yet I don't see that being flagged in here as a "problem"?
I can see how some nepotism and abuse is possible in selecting teams 15-20, but assuming that WDB will only do unfair things is bit much, no?
Reece's cousin is Chris Ball's Director of Gravity Sports. I don't imagine his team will have problems getting an entry.
That’s true. Case in point would be the shitstorm that is Rampage judging every year.
That stated, just going on points doesn’t work either. as you guys have mentioned on the show, there are Asian national champs who would be expert class in France but have more points than most European pros. So just boiling it down to points isn’t equitable either.
I suppose their criteria has to do not just with results but with who can bring a good show and a good story. AG and Neko’s teams bring a good story to the table (and 20 results in the Frameworks case).
🤣 Y’all in here thumbing up and down dating stuff now?
If WBD are concerned about how riders are paid and treated why wouldn't they state it in the rule changes? They mention social media presence, so why not this? What riders are paid and how they are treated is no more WBD's concern than how WBD pay and treat their own staff being the concern of teams.
RB events are invite only, so not an apples to apples comparison.
I recall several pods and vids mentioning Vergier possibly going to Norco because of his relationship with Minaar.
To me it seems like the whole Wildcard team thing is just a transition system for WBD to get the system started in 2025. For 2026 they already announced, that the structure will change again. So in 25 teams can prove themselves by collecting enough points and in fall 25 there will be a points based cut again. If teams don't have enough points at the end of next season, they can either buy a rider, to improve their ranking or their out. This will change the sport as we know it, but at least it will be transparent and kind of fair.
I thought it said after 2025 the WC points are owned by the teams, not riders.
Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic or giving too much benefit of the doubt, but either way I cant see why the only option here is that WBD are gonna abuse their system. Seems to me that they have created a fuzzy window to make sure small teams with high profile riders like Gwin Racing can access World Cups, these teams likely having better budget and resources etc.. than a team made up of 8-10 low ranked riders.
Whatever though, the party line in the forum is that everything WBD does is evil, any deviation from the party line gets a backlash.
And as for the RB races, there is a clear, worthy comparison here. RB races choose all riders for their race events on an invitation bases, selected on a broad range of criteria from ability to profile to sponsors. WBD will be choosing/inviting teams 15-20 on similar criteria. The sporting ethical issues involved are very similar, which is exactly what George Thomson, who I originally replied to highlighted.
OTB podcast just dropped an interview with Lachie Stevens-Mcnabb. No juicy team rumours but that kid has a good head on his shoulders. So many references to we or the team or The Union - obviously aware of the support and role of the team to get him to where he is.
Loris is not mucking around, he’s got himself onto an absolutly dominant team for next year. Hopefully there’s no clash of the titans with the big personalities. After his stripes this year, next year should be a supreme one.
All rumours.
The difference between the 2 is that Red Bull's events are private events, organised, produced & broadcast by them. They can invite whoever they want, no one can argue otherwise. WBD are organising World Cups on behalf of the UCI, the world governing body for competitive cycling events. They should be completely neutral & the only way to be free from bias/influence is to go off points for all teams.
Personal opinion... I don't agree with handing control of the highest level of a sport to a TV production company to shape it how they want. I think I might've said this on the pod but... Imagine the Premier League giving Sky the rights to televise the Premier League & 2 years in, Sky coming back & saying "It's a bit long, let's chop it down to 30 mins a half. Also, there's too many teams so what we're going to do is have the 15 biggest teams & then 5 other teams. We'll select the 5 other teams, one week it could be Lionel Messi's all stars, the next it could be one of our mates teams as he's got a few players together. It will make good telly." It wouldn't happen.
Anyway, back to the rumours
I think this is more interesting than the rumours😅, especially as all the rumours are nearly done.
Agreed that Red Bull run events as a marketing tool, so yes there are clear differences to UCI World Cup but the ethical considerations still a valid comparions because while WBD run the WC for the UCI there is zero obligation to leave WC open to all entrants, imagine that same scenario in motorsport or alpine skiing. From a safety and welfare standpoint alone that wouldn't be allowed. WBD have a mandate to run a professional race series for the best in the world, not a participation event. Whether they are or will do a good job at that is a different debate.
Claiming that having team selection based solely off of ranking is the only way for it to be completely neutral is not particularly accurate in my opinion. There's so much bias already inherent in team location, structure etc... that elite male European rider foucsed teams are going to dominate. If anything WBDs approach of finally giving equal team ranking points to juniors and women is gonna improve the current level of bias/influence on team structures. And least we forget the Number 1 criteria (first on the list) for selection of the 5 Wildcard teams is "current and previous" ranking. so again, your claim that bias and nepotism is the WBD default without evidence.
As for your second paragraph, many sports have had their control and organization handed over to media companies, F1 and Liberty media being the most prominent, so nothing new there. Although you probably do know, I imagine, that WBDs cycling division was just a re-branded Enduro Sports Organization, so ya not quite a clueless media company. As far as I can tell having been a fan for awhile the broadcast duration between that RB TV did and what we have now is the same? So no reduction there.
Your final point is about Messi etc.. is silly, as again the first criteria for the section of the Wildcard teams is ranking and not who's friends with who. See screenshot.
Maybe it's been discussed already, but what are the requirements to be considered a team?
Do all the rider need to be on the same frame sponsor? Do they need to share a minimum number of sponsors? (I.e. could Gwin and Neko be on the same "team" but ride different frames?
This is a great opportunity for an out-of-industry team to come together. Imagine a Fordyota / WD-40 type team with Gwin, Neko's crew and another good, but not top-15, team. Multiple frame sponsors under one organization, great media reach for adverts, and if done right could go toe-to-toe with the big teams.
There's got to be quite the war raging behind the scenes right now for those #10-15 team spots. Banking on a wildcard seems risky, to say the least.
Ahhh his Messi point is silly because it's the SECOND bullet, not the FIRST. 🤣
The more this guy posts in defense of WBD, the more I'm convinced it's Ball's burner account.
No, the Messi point is silly mainly because it claims a frivolous week by week selection of teams based on nepotism. Which is not how the rule book reads to me.
Why did they (you??) include bullets 2 - 4 if they weren't intent on introducing some level of nepotism to the selection process?
Wild card selections have always been part of competition selection criteria. Look at any Olympic team selection. Of course they could be used in bad faith, but there is plenty of reason to give the benefit of the doubt that they will be used as intended. That would be for things like:
a team that has their main rider coming back from injury - they don't have the points but have proven race results
Sam Hill comes out of retirement - this brings the fans, even if he isn't realistically going to win. They have a product to sell, and Sam sells.
or even a team with decent riders and solid financial backing - I know a lot of people hate the idea that sponsors could help a team get in, but this is a business and a product, and they need to get money somehow. After all, we want the show to go on, and it ain't cheap to put on a race series.
I think there's actually 6 bullet points and none of them are related to nepotism or favouritism. They could be abused that way, but assuming that's WBD default position or their intention without any evidence is plain wrong IMHO. That's my whole point.
Having a diverse criteria from which to select wildcard teams likely makes sure the best racers, best team structures or injured riders have a chance no matter their points situation.
Claiming the wild card system is solely their so WBD can do dodgy deals is plain bull and the standard non-critical anti-wbd stuff I often try to push back against in here.
Someone gets it 🤝
Entertainment execs, promoters, and UCI bureaucrats will absolutely do the right thing. Definitely!
I love the one run do-or-die aspect of DH. If the light is still green when you cross the line you’re fastest. Boom. No judges, no deliberations, no monkeying around. The changes we’ve seen and heard about wrest some of a rider’s fate from their hands. Clock isn’t as important. The teams will own the points now, diminishing every rider’s worth. Managers are already on showing up on the broadcast—look for them to take more shine from the true stars…the TV producers own the whole thing and they’re beholden to people who don’t care about DH racing. I dunno. Introducing more opportunities for non racers to affect the outcome is scary.
The nebulous criteria for those wild card choices concern me most. Especially given WBD’s lack of transparent communication thus far. I just don’t see how they don’t muck it up. And the team managers, ruthless competitors themselves, are gonna ruin some shit too. They’ve just multiplied the opportunity for collusion and kickbacks. Not saying that doesn’t already happen, but we don’t want more.
Olympics as ethical champ is a wild move 😂
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