The fact SRAM state you have to complete these extra steps just to achieve a brake that works for their top of the line product (which no other manufacturer does) just screams poor design and manufacturing.
The fact SRAM state you have to complete these extra steps just to achieve a brake that works for their top of the line product (which...
The fact SRAM state you have to complete these extra steps just to achieve a brake that works for their top of the line product (which no other manufacturer does) just screams poor design and manufacturing.
The bike industry is full of things that scream poor design and manufacturing. It's far from a SRAM specific problem.
The fact SRAM state you have to complete these extra steps just to achieve a brake that works for their top of the line product (which...
The fact SRAM state you have to complete these extra steps just to achieve a brake that works for their top of the line product (which no other manufacturer does) just screams poor design and manufacturing.
From the info available the reason stated is to optimize friction between the pistons and seals. To me that says either other brakes use looser seals or SRAM couldn't be arsed to add that step in the production line.
Every Hope brake I’ve owned has been a straight forward fit. I’ve never needed to and have not known anyone else need to do any extra abnormal steps during setup (unless a mistake was made)
The fact SRAM state you have to complete these extra steps just to achieve a brake that works for their top of the line product (which...
The fact SRAM state you have to complete these extra steps just to achieve a brake that works for their top of the line product (which no other manufacturer does) just screams poor design and manufacturing.
The piston massage takes less than a minute. Not sure why everyone is making a fuss just do it properly as per the manual and enjoy perfect brakes
The fact SRAM state you have to complete these extra steps just to achieve a brake that works for their top of the line product (which...
The fact SRAM state you have to complete these extra steps just to achieve a brake that works for their top of the line product (which no other manufacturer does) just screams poor design and manufacturing.
if it‘s so easy, why can‘t sram do it already in the factory?
the Sram response to this is: once the brake is assembled before it reaches the customer it could take more than a year, therefore it does need that piston massage as it's been sitting for too long.
that's what they told me when i asked that question
@codahale I have indeed. No extra installation or setup steps required and felt great out of the box!
@TheFBI the fuss is that they have been hyped up as the best/most powerful brake on the market. In reality they don't match the power of other models and that is after they have undergone extra setup steps (which may have to be completed multiple times) to even be close to competitive.
@codahale I have indeed. No extra installation or setup steps required and felt great out of the box!@TheFBI the fuss is that they have been...
@codahale I have indeed. No extra installation or setup steps required and felt great out of the box!
@TheFBI the fuss is that they have been hyped up as the best/most powerful brake on the market. In reality they don't match the power of other models and that is after they have undergone extra setup steps (which may have to be completed multiple times) to even be close to competitive.
You clearly haven’t ridden them. The only brake that might outperform them is the Maxima.
Way more power than my Tech 4 V4s or the MT7s I had before.
@codahale I have indeed. No extra installation or setup steps required and felt great out of the box!@TheFBI the fuss is that they have been...
@codahale I have indeed. No extra installation or setup steps required and felt great out of the box!
@TheFBI the fuss is that they have been hyped up as the best/most powerful brake on the market. In reality they don't match the power of other models and that is after they have undergone extra setup steps (which may have to be completed multiple times) to even be close to competitive.
You clearly haven’t ridden them. The only brake that might outperform them is the Maxima.Way more power than my Tech 4 V4s or the MT7s I...
You clearly haven’t ridden them. The only brake that might outperform them is the Maxima.
Way more power than my Tech 4 V4s or the MT7s I had before.
tech 4 V4 are actually more powerful than the maxima on the dyno, the maven feel very powerful because of the impressive initial bite, although power is nothing without control which Hope and Trickstuff seem to excel with
Hey Guys, not sure if this is the forum to post. Have a set of TRP DHR Evo. bled multiple times with both TRP and shimano fluids. Running galfer Green pads ( wanted purple but stock was limited. ) This is on a Levo Turbo with 220 MM rotors.
Finding the brakes to be underwhelming. bought them originally as upgrades to SLX or Code R's which i ran on my other bikes, wanted to try something new and "better" , didn't want to have to deal with dot fluid so much ( but on reflection thats really not that much of an issue ) .
Wondering if its an issue with the green pads, not a brand i have used before, having previously run stock shimano or sram pads ( metallic ) or MTX Gold and found them all better in the different brake set ups than what im finding with the TRP and Galfer combination.
Pads were "bedded" in, and finding even after a run or two are the park that they are just feeling very weak. could i lock up the rear end if i wanted to? No.. Come to a slow stop is more the pattern.
Just looking for any thoughts or advice to those of you who are way more experienced with brake set ups than i am, and if i should be consider other pads like MTX Gold, Galfer Purple or something else
If you like the feel and performance of metallic/sintered then MTX gold & galfer purple are your main option. Galfer green, MTX red, Trickstuff Power and other similar pads behave more like better organic pads.
Hey Guys, not sure if this is the forum to post. Have a set of TRP DHR Evo. bled multiple times with both TRP and shimano...
Hey Guys, not sure if this is the forum to post. Have a set of TRP DHR Evo. bled multiple times with both TRP and shimano fluids. Running galfer Green pads ( wanted purple but stock was limited. ) This is on a Levo Turbo with 220 MM rotors.
Finding the brakes to be underwhelming. bought them originally as upgrades to SLX or Code R's which i ran on my other bikes, wanted to try something new and "better" , didn't want to have to deal with dot fluid so much ( but on reflection thats really not that much of an issue ) .
Wondering if its an issue with the green pads, not a brand i have used before, having previously run stock shimano or sram pads ( metallic ) or MTX Gold and found them all better in the different brake set ups than what im finding with the TRP and Galfer combination.
Pads were "bedded" in, and finding even after a run or two are the park that they are just feeling very weak. could i lock up the rear end if i wanted to? No.. Come to a slow stop is more the pattern.
Just looking for any thoughts or advice to those of you who are way more experienced with brake set ups than i am, and if i should be consider other pads like MTX Gold, Galfer Purple or something else
thanks
If you literally cannot lock up your brakes then your rotors and/or pads are most likely contaminated. My second guess is they need a bleed and they're simply not getting enough power. Galfer Greens have a very aggressive bite and don't require much, if any, bed in. Like, 1-2 stops in my experience.
Try cleaning the rotors with isopropyl alcohol and wiping with a lint free cloth. Then lightly sand with fine grit sandpaper. Clean again. Lightly sand the pad surfaces to remove the glaze. Then bed them in again.
If you literally cannot lock up your brakes then your rotors and/or pads are most likely contaminated. My second guess is they need a bleed and...
If you literally cannot lock up your brakes then your rotors and/or pads are most likely contaminated. My second guess is they need a bleed and they're simply not getting enough power. Galfer Greens have a very aggressive bite and don't require much, if any, bed in. Like, 1-2 stops in my experience.
Try cleaning the rotors with isopropyl alcohol and wiping with a lint free cloth. Then lightly sand with fine grit sandpaper. Clean again. Lightly sand the pad surfaces to remove the glaze. Then bed them in again.
cheers, i should have noted they are new rotors, new pads, ridden now for a few hours, dont appear to be contaminated, but thats always a consideration.
also im a bigger rider at 105 kg.which could contribute to it.
Id like to expand on the loam review issues... I took my perfectly working mavens and bled them as most would - I noticed if i unscrewed the bleeding edge to much(more than half a turn) it would suck air into the caliper.... I knew the fix but deliberately left them and rode... felt fine but now once i started down a trail the bite point was moving all over the show.
Took my bleed kit with me in truck and ONLY bled the caliper via unscrewing between 1/4 & 1/2 of a turn, vacuum bled and repressure... closed system.
Bite point issue gone - i believe Loam'ers Were not correctly bleeding them and had air in all the calipers.
I had a brake discussion with some friends at the bikepark yesterday and would love to hear if anyone has some good input. I am running Maximas with 223mm 2,3mm rotors with purple Galfer pads on my downhill bike. A friend tried the bike and could not get used to the braking.
I have always run Shimano 4pots on all my bikes and still do on my Enduro, and whey you pull the lever you can really feel the point the pads touch the rotor without it braking much at all, its almost like a "thunk". I am guessing this is what people think about when they say they are "on/off". Then when you really want to modulate or brake hard you pull past this point. On my Maximas this does not really happen, as soon as the pads touch the rotor you start braking, alot! And there is not that "thunk" before to warn you that you are about to brake. The lever feel is amazing and the power is insane, up and downsides to everything. I have some lesser Guides on my 120mm bike, and Guide RE (basically code) on an Ebike and I dont feel like these have the "thunk" of the shimanos, but they do not have the power of the Maximas so you still feel it before you really squeeze.
Does everyone have the same experiance with Shimano 4pots, and why is this? Is there some play built into the servowave or whatever or what? Also what other brakes have the same kind of "feature"? I will be downsizing the rotors on my DH bike when riding smaller bike parks, and keeping the 223mm for steeper/longer alpine parks and races.
I had a brake discussion with some friends at the bikepark yesterday and would love to hear if anyone has some good input. I am running...
I had a brake discussion with some friends at the bikepark yesterday and would love to hear if anyone has some good input. I am running Maximas with 223mm 2,3mm rotors with purple Galfer pads on my downhill bike. A friend tried the bike and could not get used to the braking.
I have always run Shimano 4pots on all my bikes and still do on my Enduro, and whey you pull the lever you can really feel the point the pads touch the rotor without it braking much at all, its almost like a "thunk". I am guessing this is what people think about when they say they are "on/off". Then when you really want to modulate or brake hard you pull past this point. On my Maximas this does not really happen, as soon as the pads touch the rotor you start braking, alot! And there is not that "thunk" before to warn you that you are about to brake. The lever feel is amazing and the power is insane, up and downsides to everything. I have some lesser Guides on my 120mm bike, and Guide RE (basically code) on an Ebike and I dont feel like these have the "thunk" of the shimanos, but they do not have the power of the Maximas so you still feel it before you really squeeze.
Does everyone have the same experiance with Shimano 4pots, and why is this? Is there some play built into the servowave or whatever or what? Also what other brakes have the same kind of "feature"? I will be downsizing the rotors on my DH bike when riding smaller bike parks, and keeping the 223mm for steeper/longer alpine parks and races.
What you describe could theoretically be the "servo wave" in the lever? Never felt the disc touching but can relate to the feeling but i'd point it to the servo wave.
i'd describe the on off more as "no braking, no braking, all the brake". could also be part of the servo wave problem as i don't like the leverage. generally spoken, I don't like shimano brakes, mainly because of the servo wave. the old XTR race lever (it think it was called??) was without servo wave. great lever.
other than the servo wave: wandering bite point and lack of modulation makes shimano brakes a "naa" for me.
Id like to expand on the loam review issues...I took my perfectly working mavens and bled them as most would - I noticed if i unscrewed...
Id like to expand on the loam review issues... I took my perfectly working mavens and bled them as most would - I noticed if i unscrewed the bleeding edge to much(more than half a turn) it would suck air into the caliper.... I knew the fix but deliberately left them and rode... felt fine but now once i started down a trail the bite point was moving all over the show.
Took my bleed kit with me in truck and ONLY bled the caliper via unscrewing between 1/4 & 1/2 of a turn, vacuum bled and repressure... closed system.
Bite point issue gone - i believe Loam'ers Were not correctly bleeding them and had air in all the calipers.
One problem with your conclusion. If air remains in the caliper, the bite point won't change the way they were experiencing it. Air in a caliper will result in a consistently softer feel with more lever throw until the air migrates up the system and (hopefully) into the reservoir. Then the brake will firm up, but it should not result in the near zero dead stroke that they were getting. That looks to be either a seal roll issue (pistons unable to retract fast enough so more fluid enters the system from the reservoir) or a port blocking issue where fluid can't return fast enough either due to debris or due to fluid restriction.
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever. the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the...
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever.
the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the less lever throw.
I believe those holes drilled into the MC body right near that pivot point allow one to loosen the grub screws and then you can use...
I believe those holes drilled into the MC body right near that pivot point allow one to loosen the grub screws and then you can use the Torx fitting on the pushrod to adjust the depth without having to remove the lever assembly. Since they state they set these up from the factory with the closest bite point, from a manufacturing side no way are they gonna remove a lever and work by trial and error to find that point.
You sir are totaly right. (With the holes and grubscrew)To rod unfortunately doesn't have a torx, you need a snake eye bit, which I (and most...
You sir are totaly right. (With the holes and grubscrew)
To rod unfortunately doesn't have a torx, you need a snake eye bit, which I (and most other i guess) don't owe. So work around is removing the lever.
Huh. Weird. I dug around and it looks like that should be a 2mm hex in the pushrod from what others have. I'll need to check out my pals' units and see what they have.
Id like to expand on the loam review issues...I took my perfectly working mavens and bled them as most would - I noticed if i unscrewed...
Id like to expand on the loam review issues... I took my perfectly working mavens and bled them as most would - I noticed if i unscrewed the bleeding edge to much(more than half a turn) it would suck air into the caliper.... I knew the fix but deliberately left them and rode... felt fine but now once i started down a trail the bite point was moving all over the show.
Took my bleed kit with me in truck and ONLY bled the caliper via unscrewing between 1/4 & 1/2 of a turn, vacuum bled and repressure... closed system.
Bite point issue gone - i believe Loam'ers Were not correctly bleeding them and had air in all the calipers.
One problem with your conclusion. If air remains in the caliper, the bite point won't change the way they were experiencing it. Air in a caliper...
One problem with your conclusion. If air remains in the caliper, the bite point won't change the way they were experiencing it. Air in a caliper will result in a consistently softer feel with more lever throw until the air migrates up the system and (hopefully) into the reservoir. Then the brake will firm up, but it should not result in the near zero dead stroke that they were getting. That looks to be either a seal roll issue (pistons unable to retract fast enough so more fluid enters the system from the reservoir) or a port blocking issue where fluid can't return fast enough either due to debris or due to fluid restriction.
I had the same symptoms as they did on mine, and I swore up and down that something was actually wrong with the brakes. No matter how many times I bled them, they would pump out on rapid lever pulls.
I met a guy from a shop who swore they could fix them and I had to eat some humble pie because it was actually a bleed issue.
I’m not 100% sure exactly how air in the caliper causes it, but it does.
Id like to expand on the loam review issues...I took my perfectly working mavens and bled them as most would - I noticed if i unscrewed...
Id like to expand on the loam review issues... I took my perfectly working mavens and bled them as most would - I noticed if i unscrewed the bleeding edge to much(more than half a turn) it would suck air into the caliper.... I knew the fix but deliberately left them and rode... felt fine but now once i started down a trail the bite point was moving all over the show.
Took my bleed kit with me in truck and ONLY bled the caliper via unscrewing between 1/4 & 1/2 of a turn, vacuum bled and repressure... closed system.
Bite point issue gone - i believe Loam'ers Were not correctly bleeding them and had air in all the calipers.
One problem with your conclusion. If air remains in the caliper, the bite point won't change the way they were experiencing it. Air in a caliper...
One problem with your conclusion. If air remains in the caliper, the bite point won't change the way they were experiencing it. Air in a caliper will result in a consistently softer feel with more lever throw until the air migrates up the system and (hopefully) into the reservoir. Then the brake will firm up, but it should not result in the near zero dead stroke that they were getting. That looks to be either a seal roll issue (pistons unable to retract fast enough so more fluid enters the system from the reservoir) or a port blocking issue where fluid can't return fast enough either due to debris or due to fluid restriction.
every single brake i've owned that has had lever pump-out was air in the caliper.
Hey if you want to try my method, go try it then report back - i dont think i couldve proven the point any other way.
Id like to expand on the loam review issues...I took my perfectly working mavens and bled them as most would - I noticed if i unscrewed...
Id like to expand on the loam review issues... I took my perfectly working mavens and bled them as most would - I noticed if i unscrewed the bleeding edge to much(more than half a turn) it would suck air into the caliper.... I knew the fix but deliberately left them and rode... felt fine but now once i started down a trail the bite point was moving all over the show.
Took my bleed kit with me in truck and ONLY bled the caliper via unscrewing between 1/4 & 1/2 of a turn, vacuum bled and repressure... closed system.
Bite point issue gone - i believe Loam'ers Were not correctly bleeding them and had air in all the calipers.
One problem with your conclusion. If air remains in the caliper, the bite point won't change the way they were experiencing it. Air in a caliper...
One problem with your conclusion. If air remains in the caliper, the bite point won't change the way they were experiencing it. Air in a caliper will result in a consistently softer feel with more lever throw until the air migrates up the system and (hopefully) into the reservoir. Then the brake will firm up, but it should not result in the near zero dead stroke that they were getting. That looks to be either a seal roll issue (pistons unable to retract fast enough so more fluid enters the system from the reservoir) or a port blocking issue where fluid can't return fast enough either due to debris or due to fluid restriction.
every single brake i've owned that has had lever pump-out was air in the caliper.Hey if you want to try my method, go try it then...
every single brake i've owned that has had lever pump-out was air in the caliper.
Hey if you want to try my method, go try it then report back - i dont think i couldve proven the point any other way.
Once someone in my area gets a set of Mavens and wants me to install em, sure I'll give it a go. Thing is your ascribing a physical characteristic to air, incompressibility, that it doesn't have. Air in a system from the MC bore down to the caliper will compress under use, resulting in longer not shorter lever throw. Your experience of doing a vac bleed from the caliper to me points to an air pocket up in the MC that got pushed into the res during your process. SRAM has historically been VERY good about laying out their MC ports to encourage any air in the active part of the system to find its way into the res. Any air ingested at the syringe would likely be a result of air getting sucked past one of the connection points of the syringe to caliper. Depending on the syringe that is easy to do, and some are WAY easier than others.
In any case, if anyone asked me what I thought about the Mavens I would say wait a gen or 2 before purchasing em. They have a lot of promise, but I think there are some wrinkles in need of ironing out.
Once someone in my area gets a set of Mavens and wants me to install em, sure I'll give it a go. Thing is your ascribing...
Once someone in my area gets a set of Mavens and wants me to install em, sure I'll give it a go. Thing is your ascribing a physical characteristic to air, incompressibility, that it doesn't have. Air in a system from the MC bore down to the caliper will compress under use, resulting in longer not shorter lever throw. Your experience of doing a vac bleed from the caliper to me points to an air pocket up in the MC that got pushed into the res during your process. SRAM has historically been VERY good about laying out their MC ports to encourage any air in the active part of the system to find its way into the res. Any air ingested at the syringe would likely be a result of air getting sucked past one of the connection points of the syringe to caliper. Depending on the syringe that is easy to do, and some are WAY easier than others.
In any case, if anyone asked me what I thought about the Mavens I would say wait a gen or 2 before purchasing em. They have a lot of promise, but I think there are some wrinkles in need of ironing out.
I agree with what you are saying but thats been the fix, every time and with all the peoples Mavens i've fixed.
If you have air in the caliper, squeezing the lever might compress the bubble, pull additional air in the system upon release but prevent the bubble from growing quickly enough to push it back out before you squeeze the lever again. That would mean you would get too much oil in the system, effectively, plus the expanding bubble pushing on the pistons, giving you a short throw.
Oh wow, you were talking about that video. Man you had some pretty duff Hope brakes if you had to do all of that to get them working from new.
Ah the link in the manual you were talking about is in the Hose Shortening section so I didn't think you were talking about that as it just points to a section on their site, not an actual video
So it was more of a troubleshooting process you were directed to perform not an actual basic setup.
I got the Maxima with the coated Goodridge hoses which are 6mm. It didnt pass the internal hose routing tunnels on the Specialized Enduro so I had to get the thinner beta hoses for the rear. In that process I somehow ruptured the membrane in the lever. It might have been by sucking too much vaccum or applying too much positive pressure when bleeding. Oil would leak out of the reservoir pinhole. Anyways that made bleeding very frustrating. You could pull endless air during bleeding. It got progressively worse and I had to bleed often. Now that the season is over, I have taken the lever apart to service it and replace the membrane. These brakes will now be intalled in a RAAW Madonna so finally I can use the original Goodridge hose.
That is the only issue I had with my Maxima which could have been user error. I've bled many other brakes without experiencing anything similar. Overall I found the textbook bleed process a bit annoying with the extra steps. SRAM, Hayes, Intend were so much easier.
I got the Maxima with the coated Goodridge hoses which are 6mm. It didnt pass the internal hose routing tunnels on the Specialized Enduro so I...
I got the Maxima with the coated Goodridge hoses which are 6mm. It didnt pass the internal hose routing tunnels on the Specialized Enduro so I had to get the thinner beta hoses for the rear. In that process I somehow ruptured the membrane in the lever. It might have been by sucking too much vaccum or applying too much positive pressure when bleeding. Oil would leak out of the reservoir pinhole. Anyways that made bleeding very frustrating. You could pull endless air during bleeding. It got progressively worse and I had to bleed often. Now that the season is over, I have taken the lever apart to service it and replace the membrane. These brakes will now be intalled in a RAAW Madonna so finally I can use the original Goodridge hose.
That is the only issue I had with my Maxima which could have been user error. I've bled many other brakes without experiencing anything similar. Overall I found the textbook bleed process a bit annoying with the extra steps. SRAM, Hayes, Intend were so much easier.
intend can be done with no arms and legs, if only they were readily available, i tried 2 times to get them and never managed so i give up
I’m pretty sure it was a performance thing that someone else corroborated. The whole Lewis thing has really highlighted how little TS has done to “improve” (not that they need it) their brakes… except for black of course 🤦
The trickstuff cncd handlebar clamp is shit, I have 4 broken ones in a box. One snapped indoors just sitting around, one snapped when I got to the trail unloading the bike (NOT touching the brake, just "pop"). Both of these must have been tension+warm then cold, or vice versa. One when I hit the ground in a national enduro race, not a big crash in any way. And one in a proper crash. Got tired of reaching out to Trickstuff who did send me new ones for the first two so Ive just keep buying new ones from R2 bike so i have one spare on my handlebar at all times.
Other than that, my Maximas have been awesome brakes!
The fact SRAM state you have to complete these extra steps just to achieve a brake that works for their top of the line product (which no other manufacturer does) just screams poor design and manufacturing.
The bike industry is full of things that scream poor design and manufacturing. It's far from a SRAM specific problem.
From the info available the reason stated is to optimize friction between the pistons and seals. To me that says either other brakes use looser seals or SRAM couldn't be arsed to add that step in the production line.
Every Hope brake I’ve owned has been a straight forward fit. I’ve never needed to and have not known anyone else need to do any extra abnormal steps during setup (unless a mistake was made)
The piston massage takes less than a minute. Not sure why everyone is making a fuss just do it properly as per the manual and enjoy perfect brakes
oh well "perfect" it's nothing more than polishing a turd, still a turd remains let's be real
if it‘s so easy, why can‘t sram do it already in the factory?
the Sram response to this is: once the brake is assembled before it reaches the customer it could take more than a year, therefore it does need that piston massage as it's been sitting for too long.
that's what they told me when i asked that question
@codahale I have indeed. No extra installation or setup steps required and felt great out of the box!
@TheFBI the fuss is that they have been hyped up as the best/most powerful brake on the market. In reality they don't match the power of other models and that is after they have undergone extra setup steps (which may have to be completed multiple times) to even be close to competitive.
You clearly haven’t ridden them. The only brake that might outperform them is the Maxima.
Way more power than my Tech 4 V4s or the MT7s I had before.
tech 4 V4 are actually more powerful than the maxima on the dyno, the maven feel very powerful because of the impressive initial bite, although power is nothing without control which Hope and Trickstuff seem to excel with
Hey Guys, not sure if this is the forum to post. Have a set of TRP DHR Evo. bled multiple times with both TRP and shimano fluids. Running galfer Green pads ( wanted purple but stock was limited. ) This is on a Levo Turbo with 220 MM rotors.
Finding the brakes to be underwhelming. bought them originally as upgrades to SLX or Code R's which i ran on my other bikes, wanted to try something new and "better" , didn't want to have to deal with dot fluid so much ( but on reflection thats really not that much of an issue ) .
Wondering if its an issue with the green pads, not a brand i have used before, having previously run stock shimano or sram pads ( metallic ) or MTX Gold and found them all better in the different brake set ups than what im finding with the TRP and Galfer combination.
Pads were "bedded" in, and finding even after a run or two are the park that they are just feeling very weak. could i lock up the rear end if i wanted to? No.. Come to a slow stop is more the pattern.
Just looking for any thoughts or advice to those of you who are way more experienced with brake set ups than i am, and if i should be consider other pads like MTX Gold, Galfer Purple or something else
thanks
If you like the feel and performance of metallic/sintered then MTX gold & galfer purple are your main option. Galfer green, MTX red, Trickstuff Power and other similar pads behave more like better organic pads.
If you literally cannot lock up your brakes then your rotors and/or pads are most likely contaminated. My second guess is they need a bleed and they're simply not getting enough power. Galfer Greens have a very aggressive bite and don't require much, if any, bed in. Like, 1-2 stops in my experience.
Try cleaning the rotors with isopropyl alcohol and wiping with a lint free cloth. Then lightly sand with fine grit sandpaper. Clean again. Lightly sand the pad surfaces to remove the glaze. Then bed them in again.
cheers, i should have noted they are new rotors, new pads, ridden now for a few hours, dont appear to be contaminated, but thats always a consideration.
also im a bigger rider at 105 kg.which could contribute to it.
might try the MTX pads.
Id like to expand on the loam review issues...
I took my perfectly working mavens and bled them as most would - I noticed if i unscrewed the bleeding edge to much(more than half a turn) it would suck air into the caliper....
I knew the fix but deliberately left them and rode... felt fine but now once i started down a trail the bite point was moving all over the show.
Took my bleed kit with me in truck and ONLY bled the caliper via unscrewing between 1/4 & 1/2 of a turn, vacuum bled and repressure...
closed system.
Bite point issue gone - i believe Loam'ers Were not correctly bleeding them and had air in all the calipers.
I had a brake discussion with some friends at the bikepark yesterday and would love to hear if anyone has some good input. I am running Maximas with 223mm 2,3mm rotors with purple Galfer pads on my downhill bike. A friend tried the bike and could not get used to the braking.
I have always run Shimano 4pots on all my bikes and still do on my Enduro, and whey you pull the lever you can really feel the point the pads touch the rotor without it braking much at all, its almost like a "thunk". I am guessing this is what people think about when they say they are "on/off". Then when you really want to modulate or brake hard you pull past this point. On my Maximas this does not really happen, as soon as the pads touch the rotor you start braking, alot! And there is not that "thunk" before to warn you that you are about to brake. The lever feel is amazing and the power is insane, up and downsides to everything. I have some lesser Guides on my 120mm bike, and Guide RE (basically code) on an Ebike and I dont feel like these have the "thunk" of the shimanos, but they do not have the power of the Maximas so you still feel it before you really squeeze.
Does everyone have the same experiance with Shimano 4pots, and why is this? Is there some play built into the servowave or whatever or what? Also what other brakes have the same kind of "feature"? I will be downsizing the rotors on my DH bike when riding smaller bike parks, and keeping the 223mm for steeper/longer alpine parks and races.
What you describe could theoretically be the "servo wave" in the lever? Never felt the disc touching but can relate to the feeling but i'd point it to the servo wave.
i'd describe the on off more as "no braking, no braking, all the brake". could also be part of the servo wave problem as i don't like the leverage. generally spoken, I don't like shimano brakes, mainly because of the servo wave. the old XTR race lever (it think it was called??) was without servo wave. great lever.
other than the servo wave: wandering bite point and lack of modulation makes shimano brakes a "naa" for me.
One problem with your conclusion. If air remains in the caliper, the bite point won't change the way they were experiencing it. Air in a caliper will result in a consistently softer feel with more lever throw until the air migrates up the system and (hopefully) into the reservoir. Then the brake will firm up, but it should not result in the near zero dead stroke that they were getting. That looks to be either a seal roll issue (pistons unable to retract fast enough so more fluid enters the system from the reservoir) or a port blocking issue where fluid can't return fast enough either due to debris or due to fluid restriction.
Huh. Weird. I dug around and it looks like that should be a 2mm hex in the pushrod from what others have. I'll need to check out my pals' units and see what they have.
I had the same symptoms as they did on mine, and I swore up and down that something was actually wrong with the brakes. No matter how many times I bled them, they would pump out on rapid lever pulls.
I met a guy from a shop who swore they could fix them and I had to eat some humble pie because it was actually a bleed issue.
I’m not 100% sure exactly how air in the caliper causes it, but it does.
every single brake i've owned that has had lever pump-out was air in the caliper.
Hey if you want to try my method, go try it then report back - i dont think i couldve proven the point any other way.
Once someone in my area gets a set of Mavens and wants me to install em, sure I'll give it a go. Thing is your ascribing a physical characteristic to air, incompressibility, that it doesn't have. Air in a system from the MC bore down to the caliper will compress under use, resulting in longer not shorter lever throw. Your experience of doing a vac bleed from the caliper to me points to an air pocket up in the MC that got pushed into the res during your process. SRAM has historically been VERY good about laying out their MC ports to encourage any air in the active part of the system to find its way into the res. Any air ingested at the syringe would likely be a result of air getting sucked past one of the connection points of the syringe to caliper. Depending on the syringe that is easy to do, and some are WAY easier than others.
In any case, if anyone asked me what I thought about the Mavens I would say wait a gen or 2 before purchasing em. They have a lot of promise, but I think there are some wrinkles in need of ironing out.
I agree with what you are saying but thats been the fix, every time and with all the peoples Mavens i've fixed.
The classic Theory vs practice haha.
If you have air in the caliper, squeezing the lever might compress the bubble, pull additional air in the system upon release but prevent the bubble from growing quickly enough to push it back out before you squeeze the lever again. That would mean you would get too much oil in the system, effectively, plus the expanding bubble pushing on the pistons, giving you a short throw.
Oh wow, you were talking about that video. Man you had some pretty duff Hope brakes if you had to do all of that to get them working from new.
Ah the link in the manual you were talking about is in the Hose Shortening section so I didn't think you were talking about that as it just points to a section on their site, not an actual video
So it was more of a troubleshooting process you were directed to perform not an actual basic setup.
I got the Maxima with the coated Goodridge hoses which are 6mm. It didnt pass the internal hose routing tunnels on the Specialized Enduro so I had to get the thinner beta hoses for the rear. In that process I somehow ruptured the membrane in the lever. It might have been by sucking too much vaccum or applying too much positive pressure when bleeding. Oil would leak out of the reservoir pinhole. Anyways that made bleeding very frustrating. You could pull endless air during bleeding. It got progressively worse and I had to bleed often. Now that the season is over, I have taken the lever apart to service it and replace the membrane. These brakes will now be intalled in a RAAW Madonna so finally I can use the original Goodridge hose.
That is the only issue I had with my Maxima which could have been user error. I've bled many other brakes without experiencing anything similar. Overall I found the textbook bleed process a bit annoying with the extra steps. SRAM, Hayes, Intend were so much easier.
intend can be done with no arms and legs, if only they were readily available, i tried 2 times to get them and never managed so i give up
I’m pretty sure it was a performance thing that someone else corroborated.
The whole Lewis thing has really highlighted how little TS has done to “improve” (not that they need it) their brakes… except for black of course 🤦
And that rubs a bit too.
The trickstuff cncd handlebar clamp is shit, I have 4 broken ones in a box. One snapped indoors just sitting around, one snapped when I got to the trail unloading the bike (NOT touching the brake, just "pop"). Both of these must have been tension+warm then cold, or vice versa. One when I hit the ground in a national enduro race, not a big crash in any way. And one in a proper crash. Got tired of reaching out to Trickstuff who did send me new ones for the first two so Ive just keep buying new ones from R2 bike so i have one spare on my handlebar at all times.
Other than that, my Maximas have been awesome brakes!
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