MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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seanfisseli
Posts
562
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
10/25/2024 7:19pm

Did someone say there is a bar and stem combo similar to Da Package from We Are One?

1
sprungmass
Posts
236
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
10/25/2024 8:05pm Edited Date/Time 10/25/2024 8:06pm

Did someone say there is a bar and stem combo similar to Da Package from We Are One?

77designz from Germany (same people behind Kavenz bikes) They collaborated with WR1 to produce that sleeved bar for their one piece stem. WR1 then sold it as a debranded product while 77 sold it with their logo on it. There a PB article from 2019 on this too and the owner confirms in the comments that both products are identical. 

 

https://youtu.be/oncvK_zgMlo?si=lHjgTRTCstwYGwwG

4
Jotegr
Posts
339
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Interior, BC CA
10/25/2024 9:26pm

Get the 77designz one while supplies last!

1
sprungmass
Posts
236
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
10/26/2024 6:51am
Jotegr wrote:

Get the 77designz one while supplies last!

No need to rush they are already collaborating with another carbon company. The molds appear to be ready and the new bar should be identical in performance. Just a supplier change really.

2
sprungmass
Posts
236
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
10/26/2024 7:06am
Packe777 wrote:
 LHP S4 Brakes teaser from Lewis:https://www.instagram.com/lewisbike_official/reel/DBkqpKvR-5t/https://www.lewisbike.com/disc-brakes-lhp-u4.html  

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

2
42
adamdigby
Posts
110
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
San Juan Capistrano, CA US
10/26/2024 7:22am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2024 7:24am
Packe777 wrote:
 LHP S4 Brakes teaser from Lewis:https://www.instagram.com/lewisbike_official/reel/DBkqpKvR-5t/https://www.lewisbike.com/disc-brakes-lhp-u4.html  
sprungmass wrote:
I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless.  inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu...

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

I didn’t know what you were trying to show in the photos until I scrolled further down and you said 4, but even that is designed differently. The bottom and right ends are square on the Lewis and the cut throughs are in different locations. 

13
3
10/26/2024 1:02pm
Packe777 wrote:
 LHP S4 Brakes teaser from Lewis:https://www.instagram.com/lewisbike_official/reel/DBkqpKvR-5t/https://www.lewisbike.com/disc-brakes-lhp-u4.html  
sprungmass wrote:
I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless.  inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu...

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

adamdigby wrote:
I didn’t know what you were trying to show in the photos until I scrolled further down and you said 4, but even that is designed...

I didn’t know what you were trying to show in the photos until I scrolled further down and you said 4, but even that is designed differently. The bottom and right ends are square on the Lewis and the cut throughs are in different locations. 

same ! I think I spent 20sec trying to see the similarities and failed to see anything. Then I read the caption, tinfoil hat much? 🙄

13
2
monarchmason
Posts
285
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
10/26/2024 9:16pm
Packe777 wrote:
 LHP S4 Brakes teaser from Lewis:https://www.instagram.com/lewisbike_official/reel/DBkqpKvR-5t/https://www.lewisbike.com/disc-brakes-lhp-u4.html  
sprungmass wrote:
I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless.  inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu...

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

If you think this is crazy, wait till you see all the vertical shock crab bikes. 

33
MauiMax
Posts
121
Joined
5/29/2024
Location
Lahaina, HI US
10/26/2024 9:22pm
Packe777 wrote:
 LHP S4 Brakes teaser from Lewis:https://www.instagram.com/lewisbike_official/reel/DBkqpKvR-5t/https://www.lewisbike.com/disc-brakes-lhp-u4.html  
sprungmass wrote:
I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless.  inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu...

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

If you think this is crazy, wait till you see all the vertical shock crab bikes. 

The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which is completely different is kind of funny. When are we gonna start talking about what color crayons taste best cause i feel like we are getting pretty close? 

24
2
gibbon
Posts
463
Joined
3/7/2019
Location
wales GB
10/27/2024 1:15am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2024 1:19am
MauiMax wrote:
The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which...

The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which is completely different is kind of funny. When are we gonna start talking about what color crayons taste best cause i feel like we are getting pretty close? 

Duh....orange totes obvs. Much tangy.

5
1
MauiMax
Posts
121
Joined
5/29/2024
Location
Lahaina, HI US
10/27/2024 10:12am
MauiMax wrote:
The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which...

The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which is completely different is kind of funny. When are we gonna start talking about what color crayons taste best cause i feel like we are getting pretty close? 

gibbon wrote:

Duh....orange totes obvs. Much tangy.

They go perfect with my fox fork too. Best trail snack 

2
senorbanana
Posts
53
Joined
2/27/2019
Location
San Jose, CA US
10/27/2024 10:04pm
kperras wrote:
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66...

Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.

ebruner wrote:
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in...

I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets.  Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise.  The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown.  The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove.  Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.  

What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard.  FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust.  I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.  

/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes.  It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets.  Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory.  It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing.  I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500.  I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes.  But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.

I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability.  I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.  

Just buy a zs56 upper and lower cane creek hellbender 70…

1
Kango
Posts
42
Joined
1/4/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
10/28/2024 12:57am
sprungmass wrote:
I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless.  inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu...

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

If you think this is crazy, wait till you see all the vertical shock crab bikes. 

MauiMax wrote:
The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which...

The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which is completely different is kind of funny. When are we gonna start talking about what color crayons taste best cause i feel like we are getting pretty close? 

Lewis is using the same black colour!

23
1
10/28/2024 8:07am
AndehM wrote:
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly...

Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?"  More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.

Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?

They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've put thousands of miles on these and don't find they wear differently than any other cassette.

26
Dogboy
Posts
65
Joined
4/12/2011
Location
Chapel Hill, NC US
10/28/2024 8:22am
AndehM wrote:
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly...

Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?"  More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.

Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've...

Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?

They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've put thousands of miles on these and don't find they wear differently than any other cassette.

Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the miles on it. The wear life on them is extremely long.

11
Jotegr
Posts
339
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Interior, BC CA
10/28/2024 8:25am

If the rivets are loose causing creaking, Shimano will warranty them. Remember, three years on XTR stuff!

8
AndehM
Posts
600
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA US
10/28/2024 8:46am
AndehM wrote:
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly...

Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?"  More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.

Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've...

Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?

They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've put thousands of miles on these and don't find they wear differently than any other cassette.

It was a couple years back.  They didn't creak, but the ramp teeth had worn down to nubs and shift quality had deteriorated dramatically.  The drivetrain was setup by a shop, so theoretically it was installed correctly.  Shimano warrantied both of them then I sold the system to go bleep bloop.

5
10/28/2024 10:28am
AndehM wrote:
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly...

Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?"  More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.

Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've...

Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?

They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've put thousands of miles on these and don't find they wear differently than any other cassette.

Dogboy wrote:
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the...

Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the miles on it. The wear life on them is extremely long.

Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel 41. I run the 10-45s, I don't need a 51 in Chicago. The 10t cogs wear fast and start skipping in the high hundres of miles, teeth of the 41 would start to disappear north of 1000, and the whole thing would be poor shifting mess by 12-1500 hundred. XTR chains went at the same rate.

Shimano 12s needs a gen 2, and I'm not worried about the future of DI2. My Shimano 12s journey has been rough.. chain and cassette wear, warranty shifters, warranty chainrings, a couple chains grenading at very low miles, soft XT derailleur cages.. Linkglide, GRX and everything pre-12 was always great for me, and I was definitely Shimano leaning in the great big S debate, but not married to them by any means.

4
gibbon
Posts
463
Joined
3/7/2019
Location
wales GB
10/28/2024 12:50pm
Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've...

Are these "worn out in less than 200 miles" XTR cassettes in the room with us right now?

They can creak, especially he earliest ones, but I've put thousands of miles on these and don't find they wear differently than any other cassette.

Dogboy wrote:
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the...

Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the miles on it. The wear life on them is extremely long.

Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel...

Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel 41. I run the 10-45s, I don't need a 51 in Chicago. The 10t cogs wear fast and start skipping in the high hundres of miles, teeth of the 41 would start to disappear north of 1000, and the whole thing would be poor shifting mess by 12-1500 hundred. XTR chains went at the same rate.

Shimano 12s needs a gen 2, and I'm not worried about the future of DI2. My Shimano 12s journey has been rough.. chain and cassette wear, warranty shifters, warranty chainrings, a couple chains grenading at very low miles, soft XT derailleur cages.. Linkglide, GRX and everything pre-12 was always great for me, and I was definitely Shimano leaning in the great big S debate, but not married to them by any means.

I've seen e-bikes eat Shimano 12sp drivetrains in circa 500 miles .The 10 and 12t get hammered while the top 5 sprockets are untouched. They just rode everywhere at 30rpm.

7
Jotegr
Posts
339
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Interior, BC CA
10/28/2024 3:46pm
Dogboy wrote:
Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the...

Seriously. I calculated between 3,500 and 4,000 miles on an XTR cassette - it moved across a few bikes so I had to total up the miles on it. The wear life on them is extremely long.

Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel...

Maybe I should have sprung for XTR... After breaking teeth off a few XT cassettes on the 41t, I started buying SLX to get a steel 41. I run the 10-45s, I don't need a 51 in Chicago. The 10t cogs wear fast and start skipping in the high hundres of miles, teeth of the 41 would start to disappear north of 1000, and the whole thing would be poor shifting mess by 12-1500 hundred. XTR chains went at the same rate.

Shimano 12s needs a gen 2, and I'm not worried about the future of DI2. My Shimano 12s journey has been rough.. chain and cassette wear, warranty shifters, warranty chainrings, a couple chains grenading at very low miles, soft XT derailleur cages.. Linkglide, GRX and everything pre-12 was always great for me, and I was definitely Shimano leaning in the great big S debate, but not married to them by any means.

gibbon wrote:
I've seen e-bikes eat Shimano 12sp drivetrains in circa 500 miles .The 10 and 12t get hammered while the top 5 sprockets are untouched. They just...

I've seen e-bikes eat Shimano 12sp drivetrains in circa 500 miles .The 10 and 12t get hammered while the top 5 sprockets are untouched. They just rode everywhere at 30rpm.

Run the cassette/chain combo on the enduro bike for a while and wear out the easiest two gears climbing up fire roads, swap the combo onto the ebike and burn out the other bit at 30 km/hr. Perfect!

10
Trocko
Posts
152
Joined
11/23/2010
Location
Rocky, CO US
10/29/2024 9:08am Edited Date/Time 10/29/2024 9:10am

This could just be a super deluxe with different air can but does look similiar to fox genie shape

IMG 4490.jpeg?VersionId=AFlj8GFLePZVkxz
3
AndehM
Posts
600
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA US
10/29/2024 9:11am
Trocko wrote:
This could just be a super deluxe with different air can but does look similiar to fox genie shape

This could just be a super deluxe with different air can but does look similiar to fox genie shape

IMG 4490.jpeg?VersionId=AFlj8GFLePZVkxz

That's the Linear XL air can that's been out for a while.

16
seanfisseli
Posts
562
Joined
4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA US
10/29/2024 9:31am
Trocko wrote:
This could just be a super deluxe with different air can but does look similiar to fox genie shape

This could just be a super deluxe with different air can but does look similiar to fox genie shape

IMG 4490.jpeg?VersionId=AFlj8GFLePZVkxz
AndehM wrote:

That's the Linear XL air can that's been out for a while.

I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works

8
Jotegr
Posts
339
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Interior, BC CA
10/29/2024 10:06am Edited Date/Time 10/29/2024 10:08am
Trocko wrote:
This could just be a super deluxe with different air can but does look similiar to fox genie shape

This could just be a super deluxe with different air can but does look similiar to fox genie shape

IMG 4490.jpeg?VersionId=AFlj8GFLePZVkxz
AndehM wrote:

That's the Linear XL air can that's been out for a while.

I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It...

I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works

Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it. 

 

Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one. 

 

4
boozed
Posts
647
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
10/29/2024 3:43pm
AndehM wrote:

That's the Linear XL air can that's been out for a while.

I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It...

I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works

Jotegr wrote:
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.  Edit: I think...

Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it. 

 

Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one. 

 

For that reason I assumed it was going to supersede both original air cans.  Looks like it hasn't (yet?)

4
Jotegr
Posts
339
Joined
6/28/2024
Location
Interior, BC CA
10/29/2024 10:19pm
I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It...

I know there is a 2 year exclusivity for specialized and fox for the genie. I just can’t remember what they said happens after that. It could be that speci will loop rockshox in at that point, so we could theoretically be seeing or will see a rockshox genie either being tested or going to market. Again, I can’t remember how the speci/fox genie exclusivity thing works

Jotegr wrote:
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.  Edit: I think...

Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it. 

 

Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one. 

 

boozed wrote:

For that reason I assumed it was going to supersede both original air cans.  Looks like it hasn't (yet?)

I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with tokens it'll feel like the regular can with no tokens, so the old can still has a home on particularly linear platforms. 

5
Eae903
Posts
348
Joined
10/20/2023
Location
Laramie, WY US
10/30/2024 11:27am
Jotegr wrote:
Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it.  Edit: I think...

Ok, but the pictured shock is the 2025 linear XL air can as AndehM mentioned. If Rockshox Genie is a thing, this ain't it. 

 

Edit: I think it's funny that RS released this air can which increases air volume and makes the shock generally more linear. HOWEVER, you can fit way more progression tokens into this can than the last one so if you'd like, you can install this can and tune it to feel exactly the same as the old one. 

 

boozed wrote:

For that reason I assumed it was going to supersede both original air cans.  Looks like it hasn't (yet?)

Jotegr wrote:
I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with...

I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I said "exactly the same". My understanding is that if you load the new can up with tokens it'll feel like the regular can with no tokens, so the old can still has a home on particularly linear platforms. 

So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me! 

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10/30/2024 11:33am Edited Date/Time 10/30/2024 12:26pm
Eae903 wrote:
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase...

So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me! 

That's one reason for the various air cans, and in a world where you can get a Starling with 0% progression or a Privateer with 44% progression, big brands like Rockshox and Fox need OEM options to fit a super wide range of suspension parameters. There are other benefits to more air volume though, like more mechanical leverage to overcome seal drag. In the coil vs. air battle, more volume is a pretty powerful tool to help air chase performance. That's what they did with the new Boxxer air spring: bigger volume, smaller piston size, more PSI ===> "coil like feel." The new SDLX can doesn't offer a smaller piston size, but it does offer the same piston size and more air volume, which accomplishes the same goal.

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10/30/2024 12:01pm
Eae903 wrote:
So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase...

So bikes were too linear and we needed to use air shocks to fix it, but now bikes are more progressive, so we need to increase the air volume in our shocks to make them more linear. Makes sense to me! 

the frame designers and shock makers are always going back and forth since time immemorial - originally the shocks were too progressive, which limited air shocks to short travel until 5th element brought out a large volume can which meant long travel bikes (130mm!) could use them. Volumes got bigger and travel increased so we started adding spacers to reduce that volume while running more sag, and now we seem to have a bit of both - I still get confused by Rockshox and their naming of air springs, which take in to account the volume of the negative chamber as well as the positive chamber. Large volumes overall are generally better most of the time - you can use lower pressure for the same spring rate and get less seal friction as well as accomodating a wider range of rider weights, even in higher leverage frames

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