MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Eae903
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Not Saying., WY, USA
Fantasy
10/25/2024 8:23am
krabo83 wrote:

can we get back to rumors and please keep the headset standard discussion seperated (again)?!

thx

I've heard that the next Shimano drivetrains are supposed to be 13 speed. Both the mechanical and Di2 versions. 

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1
AndehM
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10/25/2024 8:53am
Eae903 wrote:

I've heard that the next Shimano drivetrains are supposed to be 13 speed. Both the mechanical and Di2 versions. 

Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?"  More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.

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ebruner
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Tustin, CA, USA
10/25/2024 9:03am
krabo83 wrote:

can we get back to rumors and please keep the headset standard discussion seperated (again)?!

thx

yeesh sorry.  Unfortunately for all of us... I don't think there is going to be feverish new releases of tech on pedal bikes as our gear/sport is maturing.  Headset/geo adjust seems like innovation to me in this space and seems representitive of the small gains in value/usability we're likely going to see.  But who knows, maybe I'm wrong and this doesn't count for anything and of course rule 35 of the internet, is that forum threads MUST stay on topic.  It's almost as universally true as rule 34.  

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Zuestman
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Location
Seattle, WA, USA
10/25/2024 9:05am

Yes I have this exact bike with this issue.  Horrible headset. Maybe the FSA guy will

Chime in and give us a better solution

Ok, so yes, chiming in hee.  First to not as has already been pointed out we have a TON of headsets and combos.  @ebruner happy to help with yours specifically (or honestly anyone for that matter) but please DM me so we don't clog the thread.  

General info on chiming in:

1. split races: agreed they are not ideal, and can lead to creaking. but see OEM requirements to speed up install of products and make assembly easier and cheaper at times.  Yes we offer it, but only because of a request.  If you haveone and want to swap it out.  happy to chat and find something that will work

2. compression rings: the newer internal routed HS require a much beefier compression ring that allows cables to go through.  this meands it doesn't compress around the steerer as easily, and therefore needs to be a tighter fit there.  I have also found that these headsets need a bit more preload to get them settled in right and lessen creaking.

3. Grease: honestly no headset straight from the factory is greased enough (external to the bearings).  Greasethe ever-loving crap out of your headset if you have it apart.  that makes a massive difference.

Beyond that, i will say i am not a fan of internal routing either... but a company wants it we will make it.  and we will do our damndest to make it happen at a decent price to not drive the cost of bikes up more but have a reasonably solid product out there.  We won't be Works Components or Chris King, but also wont cost the same. 

Again, as I said, happy to help with HS questions through DM, as we can get quite creative here with parts, so feel free to reach out.

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chriskief
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New York, NY, USA
Fantasy
10/25/2024 9:45am

FUNN makes a ZS56 upper headset too: https://www.amazon.ca/Funn-Descend-Upper-Headset-28-6/dp/B076D8MNKL.  I just put a ZS44/ZS56 headset of theirs on another bike and it seems really solid.

Actually almost everybody makes the zero stack 56 upper. The problem is the lower.

A good 56mm option I've found is from RAAW. Use their bearings/races or swap out to a Chris King dropset (41mm bearings).

https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/yalla-headset-complete-00

They've also got reach and angle adjust cup options:

https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/dh-headset-cups

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TEAMROBOT
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Los Angeles, CA, USA
Fantasy
10/25/2024 10:54am Edited Date/Time 10/25/2024 10:54am
chriskief wrote:
A good 56mm option I've found is from RAAW. Use their bearings/races or swap out to a Chris King dropset (41mm bearings).https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/yalla-headset-complete-00They've also got...

A good 56mm option I've found is from RAAW. Use their bearings/races or swap out to a Chris King dropset (41mm bearings).

https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/yalla-headset-complete-00

They've also got reach and angle adjust cup options:

https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/dh-headset-cups

*great tip, but heads up to others that this tip only applies to 1 1/8" straight steerer forks, as the Yalla is their DH bike

3
chriskief
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New York, NY, USA
Fantasy
10/25/2024 11:02am
TEAMROBOT wrote:

*great tip, but heads up to others that this tip only applies to 1 1/8" straight steerer forks, as the Yalla is their DH bike

Good point. For tapered steerers you can use a lower cup such as King's Inset - https://chrisking.com/products/headset-inset-2

 But you can't use the RAAW reach / angle adjust options with that setup.

1
gibbon
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wales, GB
10/25/2024 11:29am
Eae903 wrote:

I've heard that the next Shimano drivetrains are supposed to be 13 speed. Both the mechanical and Di2 versions. 

The KTM spec leaks confirmed it's 12 speed but I have a feeling GRX 1x Di2 will be 13 speed. We will find out soon as the press launch is in Spain next week.

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10/25/2024 11:57am
The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost. I really want a...

The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost. 

I really want a Rocky because of the headset adjust meaning you can size it perfectly, just wish it was 6.5k aud and receives mediocre warranty standards in aus. 

side note, the New trail XR is damn good - just got done with my time testing it - Insera has really upped their Manufacturing Quality & QC - Everything lined up and operated perfectly... Frames heavy sure but man is it good.
Only thing worth noting on it is the Low Anti Squat but All models come with high lock out force shock tunes - this in turn makes these bikes so good down the hill, They dont lack any pop either which surprised me.

10/10 would buy with my own money(yes do have a frame orderd)

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bnsleit
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Location
Missoula, MT, USA
10/25/2024 1:07pm
The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost. I really want a...

The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost. 

I really want a Rocky because of the headset adjust meaning you can size it perfectly, just wish it was 6.5k aud and receives mediocre warranty standards in aus. 

side note, the New trail XR is damn good - just got done with my time testing it - Insera has really upped their Manufacturing Quality...

side note, the New trail XR is damn good - just got done with my time testing it - Insera has really upped their Manufacturing Quality & QC - Everything lined up and operated perfectly... Frames heavy sure but man is it good.
Only thing worth noting on it is the Low Anti Squat but All models come with high lock out force shock tunes - this in turn makes these bikes so good down the hill, They dont lack any pop either which surprised me.

10/10 would buy with my own money(yes do have a frame orderd)

How on earth did you get a frame ordered, I've been checking their site daily for a size M and called all the dealers within 500 miles of me

1
10/25/2024 1:39pm

FUNN makes a ZS56 upper headset too: https://www.amazon.ca/Funn-Descend-Upper-Headset-28-6/dp/B076D8MNKL.  I just put a ZS44/ZS56 headset of theirs on another bike and it seems really solid.

Actually almost everybody makes the zero stack 56 upper. The problem is the lower.

So then what are we complaining about?

3
2
10/25/2024 1:40pm

I just got local store to order me a large(6ft)

I changed out a couple of things on my test bike, 50lb heavier spring than they recommend and that made the bike even better & went for a 5mm longer stem just to balance my Personal riding style a little - wasnt a fan of the ZEB, I just dont get along with ZEB's anyway so used my factory 38 with std and then my tuned G2 damper.

I mostly ran it in full 29, middle headset and High BB.

Dare I say this but... Maybe one of the best Alloy Enduro spec bikes i've ridden in the last few years.(The merida one sixty IMO is probably the best performing overal)

5
10/25/2024 5:46pm
New Bike from Transition or just new colours? 

1000040149 1.png?VersionId=DuuFaMVSIAzkL00G2 GNew Bike from Transition or just new colours? 

Team Robot looking good in the launch video!

3
seanfisseli
Posts
595
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4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
10/25/2024 7:13pm
The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost. I really want a...

The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost. 

I really want a Rocky because of the headset adjust meaning you can size it perfectly, just wish it was 6.5k aud and receives mediocre warranty standards in aus. 

side note, the New trail XR is damn good - just got done with my time testing it - Insera has really upped their Manufacturing Quality...

side note, the New trail XR is damn good - just got done with my time testing it - Insera has really upped their Manufacturing Quality & QC - Everything lined up and operated perfectly... Frames heavy sure but man is it good.
Only thing worth noting on it is the Low Anti Squat but All models come with high lock out force shock tunes - this in turn makes these bikes so good down the hill, They dont lack any pop either which surprised me.

10/10 would buy with my own money(yes do have a frame orderd)

Want

1
seanfisseli
Posts
595
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4/16/2024
Location
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
10/25/2024 7:19pm

Did someone say there is a bar and stem combo similar to Da Package from We Are One?

1
sprungmass
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Location
Calgary, AB, CA
10/25/2024 8:05pm Edited Date/Time 10/25/2024 8:06pm

Did someone say there is a bar and stem combo similar to Da Package from We Are One?

77designz from Germany (same people behind Kavenz bikes) They collaborated with WR1 to produce that sleeved bar for their one piece stem. WR1 then sold it as a debranded product while 77 sold it with their logo on it. There a PB article from 2019 on this too and the owner confirms in the comments that both products are identical. 

 

https://youtu.be/oncvK_zgMlo?si=lHjgTRTCstwYGwwG

4
Jotegr
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6/28/2024
Location
Interior, BC, CA
10/25/2024 9:26pm

Get the 77designz one while supplies last!

1
sprungmass
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Location
Calgary, AB, CA
10/26/2024 6:51am
Jotegr wrote:

Get the 77designz one while supplies last!

No need to rush they are already collaborating with another carbon company. The molds appear to be ready and the new bar should be identical in performance. Just a supplier change really.

2
sprungmass
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Calgary, AB, CA
10/26/2024 7:06am
Packe777 wrote:
 LHP S4 Brakes teaser from Lewis:https://www.instagram.com/lewisbike_official/reel/DBkqpKvR-5t/https://www.lewisbike.com/disc-brakes-lhp-u4.html  

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

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42
adamdigby
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110
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Location
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA
10/26/2024 7:22am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2024 7:24am
Packe777 wrote:
 LHP S4 Brakes teaser from Lewis:https://www.instagram.com/lewisbike_official/reel/DBkqpKvR-5t/https://www.lewisbike.com/disc-brakes-lhp-u4.html  
sprungmass wrote:
I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless.  inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu...

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

I didn’t know what you were trying to show in the photos until I scrolled further down and you said 4, but even that is designed differently. The bottom and right ends are square on the Lewis and the cut throughs are in different locations. 

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3
10/26/2024 1:02pm
Packe777 wrote:
 LHP S4 Brakes teaser from Lewis:https://www.instagram.com/lewisbike_official/reel/DBkqpKvR-5t/https://www.lewisbike.com/disc-brakes-lhp-u4.html  
sprungmass wrote:
I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless.  inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu...

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

adamdigby wrote:
I didn’t know what you were trying to show in the photos until I scrolled further down and you said 4, but even that is designed...

I didn’t know what you were trying to show in the photos until I scrolled further down and you said 4, but even that is designed differently. The bottom and right ends are square on the Lewis and the cut throughs are in different locations. 

same ! I think I spent 20sec trying to see the similarities and failed to see anything. Then I read the caption, tinfoil hat much? 🙄

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2
monarchmason
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Nevada City, CA, USA
10/26/2024 9:16pm
Packe777 wrote:
 LHP S4 Brakes teaser from Lewis:https://www.instagram.com/lewisbike_official/reel/DBkqpKvR-5t/https://www.lewisbike.com/disc-brakes-lhp-u4.html  
sprungmass wrote:
I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless.  inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu...

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

If you think this is crazy, wait till you see all the vertical shock crab bikes. 

33
MauiMax
Posts
124
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5/29/2024
Location
Lahaina, HI, USA
10/26/2024 9:22pm
Packe777 wrote:
 LHP S4 Brakes teaser from Lewis:https://www.instagram.com/lewisbike_official/reel/DBkqpKvR-5t/https://www.lewisbike.com/disc-brakes-lhp-u4.html  
sprungmass wrote:
I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless.  inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu...

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

If you think this is crazy, wait till you see all the vertical shock crab bikes. 

The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which is completely different is kind of funny. When are we gonna start talking about what color crayons taste best cause i feel like we are getting pretty close? 

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2
gibbon
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467
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Location
wales, GB
10/27/2024 1:15am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2024 1:19am
MauiMax wrote:
The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which...

The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which is completely different is kind of funny. When are we gonna start talking about what color crayons taste best cause i feel like we are getting pretty close? 

Duh....orange totes obvs. Much tangy.

5
1
MauiMax
Posts
124
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Location
Lahaina, HI, USA
10/27/2024 10:12am
MauiMax wrote:
The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which...

The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which is completely different is kind of funny. When are we gonna start talking about what color crayons taste best cause i feel like we are getting pretty close? 

gibbon wrote:

Duh....orange totes obvs. Much tangy.

They go perfect with my fox fork too. Best trail snack 

2
senorbanana
Posts
55
Joined
2/27/2019
Location
San Jose, CA, USA
10/27/2024 10:04pm
kperras wrote:
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66...

Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.

ebruner wrote:
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in...

I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible.  The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets.  Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise.  The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown.  The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove.  Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.  

What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard.  FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust.  I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.  

/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes.  It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets.  Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory.  It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing.  I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500.  I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes.  But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.

I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability.  I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.  

Just buy a zs56 upper and lower cane creek hellbender 70…

1
Kango
Posts
42
Joined
1/4/2023
Location
Calgary, AB, CA
10/28/2024 12:57am
sprungmass wrote:
I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless.  inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu...

I know the brake nerds are already thinking this so here i'll post it. Lewis really are Hopeless. 

image 80.png?VersionId=p REq9iK lUoUKF

image 81.png?VersionId=k3b72WeW0GG4bcDeD4Py6fiob .VimQ

 

inb4 "oH tHeRe ArE oNLY sO mAnY wAyS yOu CaN wRiTe a 4" 🙈

If you think this is crazy, wait till you see all the vertical shock crab bikes. 

MauiMax wrote:
The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which...

The focus of this being the way they wrote the number 4 which is still a bit different and not focused on the caliper itself which is completely different is kind of funny. When are we gonna start talking about what color crayons taste best cause i feel like we are getting pretty close? 

Lewis is using the same black colour!

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1
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