Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
Five lucky people will be selected at random to win a Vital MTB t-shirt.
Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
You're all missing the real solution when it comes to headsets and reach / angle adjust. We should just be making bikes that use an EC44/EC56 or EC56/EC56 headset. Simple and easy.
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.
Great idea, you can carry 2 extra forks with you in the event that one breaks on your ride too.
Bring back the "spam can" headtube... (I forget which company had one on a test mule)
No shit, when I had my first gen stumpy evo (in my sig) I would take a spare shock in my car because chances are the side loading would kill one. I wore the head on the shock mount bolt out from removing it so much lol
Cane Creek still has a photo of me on their dartboard!
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets. Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise. The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown. The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove. Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.
What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard. FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust. I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.
/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes. It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets. Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory. It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing. I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500. I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes. But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.
I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability. I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.
Yes I have this exact bike with this issue. Horrible headset. Maybe the FSA guy will
Chime in and give us a better solution
got this headset on a 2022 norco range vlt and its never been silent always creaking real bad.
Prototype aluminum norco range.
The oval headset from the Aurum HSP would be awesome in a tapered fit. Mine has been solid since 2019. No ability to run an angleset unless someone made a one-off for the frame.
EDIT: . For those not familiar with Norco's system, it's essentially two IS headsets in one bike (yes, yes, I know we hate those but hear me out). The first is an oval shaped IS headset in the carbon frame itself, and the second is comprised of aluminum cups made to fit in the oval recess which in turn have the actual IS bearing seat. The bike came with four cups: an upper and lower offset set, and an upper and lower inline set. Using the inline set, you got the reach the bike was designed for. Using the offset set, you could go +/- 5mm of reach by flipping the cups around. It's sort of a production version of the spam can but only works for 1 1/8 steerers, but could be adapted to work with tapered forks (check out the bike checks if you don't believe me).
I'm sure the system isn't flawless but it's worked well in my experience and I don't recall ever hearing someone complain about it in real life or online, but the Aurum HSP was never a high volume bike, and because it fit kinda small when it was brand-spanking, probably sees nearly 100% of people run it in the longest setting.
For a visual, here's a photo from the other site with the cups in the longest setting:
Whatever ZS56/66 headset that you have in your Transition is not the one that comes in Rocky Mountains. The cups are our own design that use standard 36x45 bearings, the bearings we spec are high end sealed stainless, and the crown race is not split. I'm not sure the comparison is valid here.
You're right, I wrote that like it was a comparison, didn't mean it to sound that way... And even if I did, you're right it's not valid. I haven't been able to find photos of the system you guys were using. I did assume here it was zs56/66.
Transition always has a handful of frame details that seem to be finished with an "eh, good enough" type of mentality. That for sure hasn't been my experience with rocky mountains. I assume you guys chose better then transition did.
Still, I'm a little bummed to have ended up with a bike that has a standard that basically isn't supported and all of the products on the market sorta suck. I definitely want to be able to adjust reach by +/-5, and have the option for +/- 1 degree of hta. I've had a few bikes with integrated headsets that I very likely would still have if I could. Have adjusted that. Seems like a really good value proposition for consumers. To date, my experience with zs56/66 is not that, at least not yet.
can we get back to rumors and please keep the headset standard discussion seperated (again)?!
thx
You need to run a Works components lower split race, that has a rubber seal built in. Been running one on my Patrol for years and have cleaned the headset twice. Those FSA headsets that come with bikes are junk. The one on my Stumpy Evo would get dirt in it after 2 rides and the Works crown race totally solved the problem on that bike too.
FUNN makes a ZS56 upper headset too: https://www.amazon.ca/Funn-Descend-Upper-Headset-28-6/dp/B076D8MNKL. I just put a ZS44/ZS56 headset of theirs on another bike and it seems really solid.
I've heard that the next Shimano drivetrains are supposed to be 13 speed. Both the mechanical and Di2 versions.
Given my experience with 2 XTR 12-speed cassettes wearing out in <200 miles each, my immediate reaction to that rumor was a sarcastic, "What could possibly go wrong?" More gears = thinner cogs & narrower chain = even faster wear, especially given Shimano's use of lighter weight but less durable metals on the XTR range.
yeesh sorry. Unfortunately for all of us... I don't think there is going to be feverish new releases of tech on pedal bikes as our gear/sport is maturing. Headset/geo adjust seems like innovation to me in this space and seems representitive of the small gains in value/usability we're likely going to see. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong and this doesn't count for anything and of course rule 35 of the internet, is that forum threads MUST stay on topic. It's almost as universally true as rule 34.
Ok, so yes, chiming in hee. First to not as has already been pointed out we have a TON of headsets and combos. @ebruner happy to help with yours specifically (or honestly anyone for that matter) but please DM me so we don't clog the thread.
General info on chiming in:
1. split races: agreed they are not ideal, and can lead to creaking. but see OEM requirements to speed up install of products and make assembly easier and cheaper at times. Yes we offer it, but only because of a request. If you haveone and want to swap it out. happy to chat and find something that will work
2. compression rings: the newer internal routed HS require a much beefier compression ring that allows cables to go through. this meands it doesn't compress around the steerer as easily, and therefore needs to be a tighter fit there. I have also found that these headsets need a bit more preload to get them settled in right and lessen creaking.
3. Grease: honestly no headset straight from the factory is greased enough (external to the bearings). Greasethe ever-loving crap out of your headset if you have it apart. that makes a massive difference.
Beyond that, i will say i am not a fan of internal routing either... but a company wants it we will make it. and we will do our damndest to make it happen at a decent price to not drive the cost of bikes up more but have a reasonably solid product out there. We won't be Works Components or Chris King, but also wont cost the same.
Again, as I said, happy to help with HS questions through DM, as we can get quite creative here with parts, so feel free to reach out.
Actually almost everybody makes the zero stack 56 upper. The problem is the lower.
A good 56mm option I've found is from RAAW. Use their bearings/races or swap out to a Chris King dropset (41mm bearings).
https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/yalla-headset-complete-00
They've also got reach and angle adjust cup options:
https://raawmtb.com/en-us/collections/parts/products/dh-headset-cups
*great tip, but heads up to others that this tip only applies to 1 1/8" straight steerer forks, as the Yalla is their DH bike
Good point. For tapered steerers you can use a lower cup such as King's Inset - https://chrisking.com/products/headset-inset-2
But you can't use the RAAW reach / angle adjust options with that setup.
The KTM spec leaks confirmed it's 12 speed but I have a feeling GRX 1x Di2 will be 13 speed. We will find out soon as the press launch is in Spain next week.
side note, the New trail XR is damn good - just got done with my time testing it - Insera has really upped their Manufacturing Quality & QC - Everything lined up and operated perfectly... Frames heavy sure but man is it good.
Only thing worth noting on it is the Low Anti Squat but All models come with high lock out force shock tunes - this in turn makes these bikes so good down the hill, They dont lack any pop either which surprised me.
10/10 would buy with my own money(yes do have a frame orderd)
How on earth did you get a frame ordered, I've been checking their site daily for a size M and called all the dealers within 500 miles of me
So then what are we complaining about?
I just got local store to order me a large(6ft)
I changed out a couple of things on my test bike, 50lb heavier spring than they recommend and that made the bike even better & went for a 5mm longer stem just to balance my Personal riding style a little - wasnt a fan of the ZEB, I just dont get along with ZEB's anyway so used my factory 38 with std and then my tuned G2 damper.
I mostly ran it in full 29, middle headset and High BB.
Dare I say this but... Maybe one of the best Alloy Enduro spec bikes i've ridden in the last few years.(The merida one sixty IMO is probably the best performing overal)
Team Robot looking good in the launch video!
Want