One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've...
One of the millions of companies selling billet pedals and stems should start selling spacers for 29er forks that optimize geo for 27.5 front wheels. I've heard of many pro riders using these, but I'm not aware of any company currently selling them.
I don't know if you can get them aftermarket, but Rocky Mountain sold the 2019 (?) Pipeline/Instinct with a ~10mm crown spacer so you could switch...
I don't know if you can get them aftermarket, but Rocky Mountain sold the 2019 (?) Pipeline/Instinct with a ~10mm crown spacer so you could switch front wheels and get the same geo. It sat under the crown race I think. I feel like it would be relatively easy to make one, but I am no engineer.
That was actually a ZS and EC cup set that you would swap out, pretty easy to do with a new lower cup if you can...
That was actually a ZS and EC cup set that you would swap out, pretty easy to do with a new lower cup if you can get the right ones. But that was also for a 29/27.5+ wheel mix which are close to the same size, so you might need a bit more to get something from it.
You are correct! As soon as I read your post the memory flashed back into my head.
A standardized (blasphemy!) oval'ish headset standard would be awesome that give +-10mm reach/lots of angle adjust
FSA has a system called the RAS. not a full +/- 10mm (20mm overall) but about +/-5mm. Being shopped to companies right now with an open design so that it can become a standard. Discussions on angle as well (though gets into a MULTITUDE of cup options if you combo it all). We are trying... just need bike companies to buy in. But the designs are out there and being shopped.
What are you talking about? The zero stack 56 headset all allows for the largest room of any headset that’s available. You should be able to...
What are you talking about? The zero stack 56 headset all allows for the largest room of any headset that’s available. You should be able to do 8 mm front and back with a straight. Fork and five mill front and back with a standard tapered fork The only thing that offers more is that stupid ZS66 that a few companies use for E bikes for some reason.
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for...
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for ZS56/66 and a ZS56/56 for 1.125 steerers.
You cannot adjust the lower bearing position fore-aft in a tapered 1.5, ZS56 cup. There is 0 room for that. You can adjust the reach by a...
You cannot adjust the lower bearing position fore-aft in a tapered 1.5, ZS56 cup. There is 0 room for that.
You can adjust the reach by a total of 10mm in a ZS66 cup.
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for straight. The bigger issue for most users is getting the cups in straight (yes this really is an end user/shop issue that has to be heavily considered having dealt with other systems).
The better option is the RAS reach adjust. Luckily MTB companies I think want to go away from internal routing, so more open to this option. We are trying....
Some kind of guiding for it in the system would probably aleviate alignment issues. Maybe a groove in the headtube and a pin in the headset cup to be guided into the groove or something along those lines (if you want to keep an easy to make round headtube).
Said grooves and/or pins could be executed by the use of standard steel pins pressed into a correctly placed hole on either the frame or the headset cup.
Some kind of guiding for it in the system would probably aleviate alignment issues. Maybe a groove in the headtube and a pin in the headset...
Some kind of guiding for it in the system would probably aleviate alignment issues. Maybe a groove in the headtube and a pin in the headset cup to be guided into the groove or something along those lines (if you want to keep an easy to make round headtube).
Said grooves and/or pins could be executed by the use of standard steel pins pressed into a correctly placed hole on either the frame or the headset cup.
oh agreed there are "simple" ways to fix this... then getting then standardized, and correct tolerances around the industry is a different matter... as an industry we can't get a round hole done right... now add a precise pin location to that.....
Yeah I know... Someone somewhere (thoughts on forks thread maybe?) just recently commented that pressfit BBs are, theoretically, the most logical thing to do, but given how hard it seems for the industry to make two concentric holes it was an utter failure. And it's 100 % true.
There needs to be an SBE (Society of Bicycle Engineers, bike equivalent of automotive counterpart SAE) that would define the standards to all things important - interfaces, dimensions, load ratings and tests, etc.
Yeah I know... Someone somewhere (thoughts on forks thread maybe?) just recently commented that pressfit BBs are, theoretically, the most logical thing to do, but given...
Yeah I know... Someone somewhere (thoughts on forks thread maybe?) just recently commented that pressfit BBs are, theoretically, the most logical thing to do, but given how hard it seems for the industry to make two concentric holes it was an utter failure. And it's 100 % true.
There needs to be an SBE (Society of Bicycle Engineers, bike equivalent of automotive counterpart SAE) that would define the standards to all things important - interfaces, dimensions, load ratings and tests, etc.
oh the tolerances are there... it's just holding to them.
BB30: 40.96-40.985mm
PF30 (and all equivalents) 45.95-46
HT I have as well. only one that isnt consistently called out is BB86 (I am sure Shimano has the frame tolerance but never seen it posted). Its more as has been discussed ad nauseum.... the cost to hold those tolerances would make frames even more expensive than they already are....
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for...
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for ZS56/66 and a ZS56/56 for 1.125 steerers.
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for...
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for straight. The bigger issue for most users is getting the cups in straight (yes this really is an end user/shop issue that has to be heavily considered having dealt with other systems).
The better option is the RAS reach adjust. Luckily MTB companies I think want to go away from internal routing, so more open to this option. We are trying....
Maybe focus on making headsets that are not made of Swiss cheese with 30,000 different bearing options
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for...
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for straight. The bigger issue for most users is getting the cups in straight (yes this really is an end user/shop issue that has to be heavily considered having dealt with other systems).
The better option is the RAS reach adjust. Luckily MTB companies I think want to go away from internal routing, so more open to this option. We are trying....
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for...
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for straight. The bigger issue for most users is getting the cups in straight (yes this really is an end user/shop issue that has to be heavily considered having dealt with other systems).
The better option is the RAS reach adjust. Luckily MTB companies I think want to go away from internal routing, so more open to this option. We are trying....
>Bike manufacturers spec 30,000 different headset combinations on frames over the last four decades
>FSA makes something compatible
How dare they!
Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings. Not sure why FSA needs to have so many. Make finding replacements impossible.
Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings. Not sure why FSA needs to have so many. Make...
Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings. Not sure why FSA needs to have so many. Make finding replacements impossible.
We make them because the bike companies request them. and actually when you start digging into it, we dopnt make a ton of bearings, just combos with bearings for different uses. and we usually have decent stock for our HS. feel free to reach out to us directly and we can usually sort a bearing that works (many are cross compatible). If you have more questions directly related to a HS feel free to DM me.
Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings. Not sure why FSA needs to have so many. Make...
Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings. Not sure why FSA needs to have so many. Make finding replacements impossible.
We make them because the bike companies request them. and actually when you start digging into it, we dopnt make a ton of bearings, just combos...
We make them because the bike companies request them. and actually when you start digging into it, we dopnt make a ton of bearings, just combos with bearings for different uses. and we usually have decent stock for our HS. feel free to reach out to us directly and we can usually sort a bearing that works (many are cross compatible). If you have more questions directly related to a HS feel free to DM me.
Thanks I appreciate it but last time I called in somone said you make of 400 different bearings. I just had 3 oem FSA head sets blow up in weeks of use. Same with the crown race. Taken off this cane creek 40 lower about 6 times still is fine. Every time I take off a FSA lower it breaks or bends. Same with hope. Never had any issues. Back to rumors…
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for...
Who makes a tapered steerer compatible reach adjust ZS56/56? Work components only offers a ZS56 top, EC56 bottom for 1.125x1.5 tapered. They have reach adjusts for ZS56/66 and a ZS56/56 for 1.125 steerers.
Yeah I had a +5mm reach headset from Works like this (EC44/EC56) and while it technically did extend reach by 5mm, you effectively lose some of that with the added stack from going to EC cups from ZS cups. I guess what it really does is slacken headangle without losing reach (from baseline).
Re: upcoming Shimano updates—I’ll be very curious to see whether they follow SRAM’s lead on pushing the cassette outboard for a 55mm chainline. I wish SRAM hadn’t...
Re: upcoming Shimano updates—I’ll be very curious to see whether they follow SRAM’s lead on pushing the cassette outboard for a 55mm chainline.
I wish SRAM hadn’t done it to begin with, but now that the toothpaste is out of the tube, everyone else kind of needs to do it too, no?
I was speaking with some guys in the sram tent at a crankworx event shortly after transmission was released and they said that it was a request from frame manufacturers to go to 55mm chain line in order to accomodate a wider variety of suspension linkages and rear triangle layouts.
The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost.
I really want a Rocky because of the headset adjust meaning you can size it perfectly, just wish it was 6.5k aud and receives mediocre warranty standards in aus.
You're all missing the real solution when it comes to headsets and reach / angle adjust. We should just be making bikes that use an EC44/EC56 or EC56/EC56 headset. Simple and easy.
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to...
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.
Great idea, you can carry 2 extra forks with you in the event that one breaks on your ride too.
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to...
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.
Bring back the "spam can" headtube... (I forget which company had one on a test mule)
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to...
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.
Great idea, you can carry 2 extra forks with you in the event that one breaks on your ride too.
No shit, when I had my first gen stumpy evo (in my sig) I would take a spare shock in my car because chances are the side loading would kill one. I wore the head on the shock mount bolt out from removing it so much lol
Cane Creek still has a photo of me on their dartboard!
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66...
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets. Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise. The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown. The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove. Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.
What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard. FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust. I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.
/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes. It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets. Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory. It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing. I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500. I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes. But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.
I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability. I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66...
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in...
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets. Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise. The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown. The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove. Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.
What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard. FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust. I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.
/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes. It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets. Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory. It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing. I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500. I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes. But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.
I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability. I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.
Yes I have this exact bike with this issue. Horrible headset. Maybe the FSA guy will
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66...
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in...
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets. Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise. The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown. The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove. Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.
What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard. FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust. I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.
/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes. It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets. Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory. It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing. I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500. I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes. But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.
I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability. I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to...
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.
Bring back the "spam can" headtube... (I forget which company had one on a test mule)
Prototype aluminum norco range.
The oval headset from the Aurum HSP would be awesome in a tapered fit. Mine has been solid since 2019. No ability to run an angleset unless someone made a one-off for the frame.
EDIT: . For those not familiar with Norco's system, it's essentially two IS headsets in one bike (yes, yes, I know we hate those but hear me out). The first is an oval shaped IS headset in the carbon frame itself, and the second is comprised of aluminum cups made to fit in the oval recess which in turn have the actual IS bearing seat. The bike came with four cups: an upper and lower offset set, and an upper and lower inline set. Using the inline set, you got the reach the bike was designed for. Using the offset set, you could go +/- 5mm of reach by flipping the cups around. It's sort of a production version of the spam can but only works for 1 1/8 steerers, but could be adapted to work with tapered forks (check out the bike checks if you don't believe me).
I'm sure the system isn't flawless but it's worked well in my experience and I don't recall ever hearing someone complain about it in real life or online, but the Aurum HSP was never a high volume bike, and because it fit kinda small when it was brand-spanking, probably sees nearly 100% of people run it in the longest setting.
For a visual, here's a photo from the other site with the cups in the longest setting:
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in...
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets. Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise. The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown. The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove. Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.
What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard. FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust. I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.
/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes. It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets. Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory. It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing. I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500. I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes. But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.
I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability. I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.
Whatever ZS56/66 headset that you have in your Transition is not the one that comes in Rocky Mountains. The cups are our own design that use standard 36x45 bearings, the bearings we spec are high end sealed stainless, and the crown race is not split. I'm not sure the comparison is valid here.
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in...
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets. Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise. The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown. The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove. Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.
What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard. FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust. I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.
/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes. It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets. Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory. It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing. I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500. I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes. But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.
I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability. I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.
Whatever ZS56/66 headset that you have in your Transition is not the one that comes in Rocky Mountains. The cups are our own design that use...
Whatever ZS56/66 headset that you have in your Transition is not the one that comes in Rocky Mountains. The cups are our own design that use standard 36x45 bearings, the bearings we spec are high end sealed stainless, and the crown race is not split. I'm not sure the comparison is valid here.
You're right, I wrote that like it was a comparison, didn't mean it to sound that way... And even if I did, you're right it's not valid. I haven't been able to find photos of the system you guys were using. I did assume here it was zs56/66.
Transition always has a handful of frame details that seem to be finished with an "eh, good enough" type of mentality. That for sure hasn't been my experience with rocky mountains. I assume you guys chose better then transition did.
Still, I'm a little bummed to have ended up with a bike that has a standard that basically isn't supported and all of the products on the market sorta suck. I definitely want to be able to adjust reach by +/-5, and have the option for +/- 1 degree of hta. I've had a few bikes with integrated headsets that I very likely would still have if I could. Have adjusted that. Seems like a really good value proposition for consumers. To date, my experience with zs56/66 is not that, at least not yet.
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66...
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in...
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets. Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise. The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown. The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove. Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.
What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard. FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust. I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.
/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes. It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets. Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory. It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing. I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500. I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes. But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.
I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability. I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.
You need to run a Works components lower split race, that has a rubber seal built in. Been running one on my Patrol for years and have cleaned the headset twice. Those FSA headsets that come with bikes are junk. The one on my Stumpy Evo would get dirt in it after 2 rides and the Works crown race totally solved the problem on that bike too.
You are correct! As soon as I read your post the memory flashed back into my head.
FSA has a system called the RAS. not a full +/- 10mm (20mm overall) but about +/-5mm. Being shopped to companies right now with an open design so that it can become a standard. Discussions on angle as well (though gets into a MULTITUDE of cup options if you combo it all). We are trying... just need bike companies to buy in. But the designs are out there and being shopped.
Working for FSA I can 100% confirm that there is NO room in a ZS 56 HT to run a reach adjust for tapered. some for straight. The bigger issue for most users is getting the cups in straight (yes this really is an end user/shop issue that has to be heavily considered having dealt with other systems).
The better option is the RAS reach adjust. Luckily MTB companies I think want to go away from internal routing, so more open to this option. We are trying....
Some kind of guiding for it in the system would probably aleviate alignment issues. Maybe a groove in the headtube and a pin in the headset cup to be guided into the groove or something along those lines (if you want to keep an easy to make round headtube).
Said grooves and/or pins could be executed by the use of standard steel pins pressed into a correctly placed hole on either the frame or the headset cup.
oh agreed there are "simple" ways to fix this... then getting then standardized, and correct tolerances around the industry is a different matter... as an industry we can't get a round hole done right... now add a precise pin location to that.....
Yeah I know... Someone somewhere (thoughts on forks thread maybe?) just recently commented that pressfit BBs are, theoretically, the most logical thing to do, but given how hard it seems for the industry to make two concentric holes it was an utter failure. And it's 100 % true.
There needs to be an SBE (Society of Bicycle Engineers, bike equivalent of automotive counterpart SAE) that would define the standards to all things important - interfaces, dimensions, load ratings and tests, etc.
oh the tolerances are there... it's just holding to them.
BB30: 40.96-40.985mm
PF30 (and all equivalents) 45.95-46
HT I have as well. only one that isnt consistently called out is BB86 (I am sure Shimano has the frame tolerance but never seen it posted). Its more as has been discussed ad nauseum.... the cost to hold those tolerances would make frames even more expensive than they already are....
Just going to leave this here...Rocky Mountain Bicycles is using the FSA system on the carbon Altitude and Instincts, and our own designed (FSA made) ZS56|66 round headsets for the alloy models. 10mm of reach adjust possible. The headset guts are just standard components: bearings, races, top caps, etc.
Maybe focus on making headsets that are not made of Swiss cheese with 30,000 different bearing options
>Bike manufacturers spec 30,000 different headset combinations on frames over the last four decades
>FSA makes something compatible
How dare they!
Havnt owned any mtb that hope doesn’t make a headset for and they make 2 bearings. Not sure why FSA needs to have so many. Make finding replacements impossible.
We make them because the bike companies request them. and actually when you start digging into it, we dopnt make a ton of bearings, just combos with bearings for different uses. and we usually have decent stock for our HS. feel free to reach out to us directly and we can usually sort a bearing that works (many are cross compatible). If you have more questions directly related to a HS feel free to DM me.
Thanks I appreciate it but last time I called in somone said you make of 400 different bearings. I just had 3 oem FSA head sets blow up in weeks of use. Same with the crown race. Taken off this cane creek 40 lower about 6 times still is fine. Every time I take off a FSA lower it breaks or bends. Same with hope. Never had any issues. Back to rumors…
Yeah I had a +5mm reach headset from Works like this (EC44/EC56) and while it technically did extend reach by 5mm, you effectively lose some of that with the added stack from going to EC cups from ZS cups. I guess what it really does is slacken headangle without losing reach (from baseline).
I was speaking with some guys in the sram tent at a crankworx event shortly after transmission was released and they said that it was a request from frame manufacturers to go to 55mm chain line in order to accomodate a wider variety of suspension linkages and rear triangle layouts.
The Marin Alpine trail XR has a nifty +- angle cups for a budget frame. So it's totally doable even at low cost.
I really want a Rocky because of the headset adjust meaning you can size it perfectly, just wish it was 6.5k aud and receives mediocre warranty standards in aus.
You're all missing the real solution when it comes to headsets and reach / angle adjust. We should just be making bikes that use an EC44/EC56 or EC56/EC56 headset. Simple and easy.
Million dollar idea: every frame comes with three headtubes welded in a neat row to the front of it. Users can play around with reach to their heart's content, then use an angle grinder to cut off whichever ones they don't end up using. Or save them all for resale value. Choose your own adventure.
Great idea, you can carry 2 extra forks with you in the event that one breaks on your ride too.
Bring back the "spam can" headtube... (I forget which company had one on a test mule)
No shit, when I had my first gen stumpy evo (in my sig) I would take a spare shock in my car because chances are the side loading would kill one. I wore the head on the shock mount bolt out from removing it so much lol
Cane Creek still has a photo of me on their dartboard!
I hate being that guy... but my experience with zs56|zs66 headset standards on my transition relay has been horrible. The FSA 55r headset that came in the bike is bar none, the worst headset I have dealt with since my days dealing with threaded headsets. Both crown races are terrible designs and are a constant source for noise. The lower split race is a terrible idea, it lets dirt get under it, which causes creaking between the crown race and the crown. The upper race has some terrible tolerances and is both hard to get onto the steer tube and somehow also difficult to remove. Like a dummy... I just figured I got a bad sample of my first FSA 55r and bought another one... both sucked and are now in the trash.
What makes matters worse... is that there are 4 headsets available industry wide for this standard. FSA 55r, a nukeproof one with a built in knock block, an acros pile of garbage and a works components 5mm reach adjust. I ended up buying a 5mm reach adjust works headset (even though I am not interested in altering the reach of my xl frame) so I could finally ditch the fsa disaster.
/end rant (sorta)... When I got this bike, I was stoked because for years I've been ranting about why we still have integrated headsets not that we've woken up and realized that we need more stack across nearly all sizes. It seems like being able to put an angle adjust headset is a value add for end users and at least a start, would be for all brands to go to press in headsets. Bonus points for just selling the bike with an angle adjust, and reach adjust headset design from the factory. It also feels like the overall cost of adding this to the design would easily be made back up by the extra sales you would grab because now you have less people that are in between sizes and are turned off by your particular take for sizing. I know for me at 6'2", I do like a reach number between 485-500. I like 485ish on my trail and XC bikes where I do more seated pedaling/turning, I like 490-500 on my mullet enduro bikes and I like around a 490 on my ebikes. But now the industry is pushing XLs larger, in the 500-505 range, and I struggle to feel at home on a 470.
I digress... I thought this zs56/zs66 standard on the relay was going to be rad and answering a rant that I have had for years... I never once stopped to do some research and think through headset availability. I guess I would have still bought the bike... but now that I know that there basically are only trash headsets for this standard... I'm pretty pissed/annoyed.
Yes I have this exact bike with this issue. Horrible headset. Maybe the FSA guy will
Chime in and give us a better solution
got this headset on a 2022 norco range vlt and its never been silent always creaking real bad.
Prototype aluminum norco range.
The oval headset from the Aurum HSP would be awesome in a tapered fit. Mine has been solid since 2019. No ability to run an angleset unless someone made a one-off for the frame.
EDIT: . For those not familiar with Norco's system, it's essentially two IS headsets in one bike (yes, yes, I know we hate those but hear me out). The first is an oval shaped IS headset in the carbon frame itself, and the second is comprised of aluminum cups made to fit in the oval recess which in turn have the actual IS bearing seat. The bike came with four cups: an upper and lower offset set, and an upper and lower inline set. Using the inline set, you got the reach the bike was designed for. Using the offset set, you could go +/- 5mm of reach by flipping the cups around. It's sort of a production version of the spam can but only works for 1 1/8 steerers, but could be adapted to work with tapered forks (check out the bike checks if you don't believe me).
I'm sure the system isn't flawless but it's worked well in my experience and I don't recall ever hearing someone complain about it in real life or online, but the Aurum HSP was never a high volume bike, and because it fit kinda small when it was brand-spanking, probably sees nearly 100% of people run it in the longest setting.
For a visual, here's a photo from the other site with the cups in the longest setting:
Whatever ZS56/66 headset that you have in your Transition is not the one that comes in Rocky Mountains. The cups are our own design that use standard 36x45 bearings, the bearings we spec are high end sealed stainless, and the crown race is not split. I'm not sure the comparison is valid here.
You're right, I wrote that like it was a comparison, didn't mean it to sound that way... And even if I did, you're right it's not valid. I haven't been able to find photos of the system you guys were using. I did assume here it was zs56/66.
Transition always has a handful of frame details that seem to be finished with an "eh, good enough" type of mentality. That for sure hasn't been my experience with rocky mountains. I assume you guys chose better then transition did.
Still, I'm a little bummed to have ended up with a bike that has a standard that basically isn't supported and all of the products on the market sorta suck. I definitely want to be able to adjust reach by +/-5, and have the option for +/- 1 degree of hta. I've had a few bikes with integrated headsets that I very likely would still have if I could. Have adjusted that. Seems like a really good value proposition for consumers. To date, my experience with zs56/66 is not that, at least not yet.
can we get back to rumors and please keep the headset standard discussion seperated (again)?!
thx
You need to run a Works components lower split race, that has a rubber seal built in. Been running one on my Patrol for years and have cleaned the headset twice. Those FSA headsets that come with bikes are junk. The one on my Stumpy Evo would get dirt in it after 2 rides and the Works crown race totally solved the problem on that bike too.