Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest. It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH...
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest.
It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH, and has a much lighter weight for its size. Granted the bike that it comes with has a major design change to the frame, but they’re claiming a whopping 10 pounds lighter weight over the 2024 model…
We have definitely NOT reached a plateau let alone a peak. Look at the smaller core brands: there is a new progressive geo in town. The...
We have definitely NOT reached a plateau let alone a peak. Look at the smaller core brands: there is a new progressive geo in town. The big brands are watering down their bikes super hard to try to not make waves/keep market share/not offend anyone. I don’t know what it will take to make the big brands budge but I do know that at some point they will.
I think maybe what we’re experiencing is a Power Nap after a decade of intense progression and change. Consumers are not really demanding big changes from the big brands so they have time to work on weird stuff (genie shock, etc) We’re at a good resting place for now, but we will all get itchy soon enough…
What is the new progressive geo that small brands are doing?There’s a lot of interesting stuff small brands make but geo genuinely seems to have found...
What is the new progressive geo that small brands are doing?
There’s a lot of interesting stuff small brands make but geo genuinely seems to have found a relative figured out equilibrium.
Definitely not the bike I was talking about. But… Bosch systems are a system, and it’s probable the Rail will come with it. The bike I was looking at is due in the spring.
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest. It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH...
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest.
It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH, and has a much lighter weight for its size. Granted the bike that it comes with has a major design change to the frame, but they’re claiming a whopping 10 pounds lighter weight over the 2024 model…
New Bosch gen5 motor and components due out at the end of sept.
New 800w and 600w batteries and top tube integrated screen.
The 800w battery is lighter than the current 750w by about a pound with more advanced cells.
The motor is roughly the same weight as the gen4 with the same 85nm and 600w peak power and 2 bolt attachment rather than 3.
A slight evolution, not the leap DJI and ZF are bringing to the game .
There will however be many bikes with new/updated frames due to this change.
We have definitely NOT reached a plateau let alone a peak. Look at the smaller core brands: there is a new progressive geo in town. The...
We have definitely NOT reached a plateau let alone a peak. Look at the smaller core brands: there is a new progressive geo in town. The big brands are watering down their bikes super hard to try to not make waves/keep market share/not offend anyone. I don’t know what it will take to make the big brands budge but I do know that at some point they will.
I think maybe what we’re experiencing is a Power Nap after a decade of intense progression and change. Consumers are not really demanding big changes from the big brands so they have time to work on weird stuff (genie shock, etc) We’re at a good resting place for now, but we will all get itchy soon enough…
What is the new progressive geo that small brands are doing?There’s a lot of interesting stuff small brands make but geo genuinely seems to have found...
What is the new progressive geo that small brands are doing?
There’s a lot of interesting stuff small brands make but geo genuinely seems to have found a relative figured out equilibrium.
Can we say that trail geo is finally converging with what we've been seeing in DH?
I don't think so, as they are and were always shorter than equivalent Enduro bikes in reach while typically longer in cs. Stack was more or less similar despite running a lot more travel in forks. So only thing that is about the same is HA and maybe BB height.
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest. It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH...
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest.
It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH, and has a much lighter weight for its size. Granted the bike that it comes with has a major design change to the frame, but they’re claiming a whopping 10 pounds lighter weight over the 2024 model…
New Bosch gen5 motor and components due out at the end of sept.New 800w and 600w batteries and top tube integrated screen.The 800w battery is lighter...
New Bosch gen5 motor and components due out at the end of sept.
New 800w and 600w batteries and top tube integrated screen.
The 800w battery is lighter than the current 750w by about a pound with more advanced cells.
The motor is roughly the same weight as the gen4 with the same 85nm and 600w peak power and 2 bolt attachment rather than 3.
A slight evolution, not the leap DJI and ZF are bringing to the game .
There will however be many bikes with new/updated frames due to this change.
Is there a reason to go 2 bolt over 3 other than securing profit margins?
I think this new trend on longer chainstays will end up shortening reach a little, and even bringing back seat tube angles a little as well (keeping ETT while moving the bb forward a bit), in order to keep adecuate front-rear bias, at least from the most extreme numbers seen on some bikes. Head angles will normallize around 63.5°
BB height, taken as a static meassurement is of little interest, the shape of 160mm enduro bike and a 200mm dh bike is very different while riding, even if they share the same bb height while stationary
All this is a biassed reasoning from myself of course, as a flat pedal rider I tend to ride from the back of the bike more, so this makes sense for me at least
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest. It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH...
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest.
It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH, and has a much lighter weight for its size. Granted the bike that it comes with has a major design change to the frame, but they’re claiming a whopping 10 pounds lighter weight over the 2024 model…
New Bosch gen5 motor and components due out at the end of sept.New 800w and 600w batteries and top tube integrated screen.The 800w battery is lighter...
New Bosch gen5 motor and components due out at the end of sept.
New 800w and 600w batteries and top tube integrated screen.
The 800w battery is lighter than the current 750w by about a pound with more advanced cells.
The motor is roughly the same weight as the gen4 with the same 85nm and 600w peak power and 2 bolt attachment rather than 3.
A slight evolution, not the leap DJI and ZF are bringing to the game .
There will however be many bikes with new/updated frames due to this change.
I can see them being attracted to this solution because it seems like one of the few ways left to up the ante: run the hose...
I can see them being attracted to this solution because it seems like one of the few ways left to up the ante: run the hose connecting the shock and reservoir through a port in the downtube.
Has anyone noticed that the Pivot DH prototype now has a full carbon rear triangle instead of lugs? Kerr and Walker new rears before Crankworx Whistler.
Has anyone noticed that the Pivot DH prototype now has a full carbon rear triangle instead of lugs? Kerr and Walker new rears before Crankworx Whistler.
Has anyone noticed that the Pivot DH prototype now has a full carbon rear triangle instead of lugs? Kerr and Walker new rears before Crankworx Whistler.
Couple of leaks here and there, it's ready and the production frame will be shown very soon
Has anyone noticed that the Pivot DH prototype now has a full carbon rear triangle instead of lugs? Kerr and Walker new rears before Crankworx Whistler.
Has anyone noticed that the Pivot DH prototype now has a full carbon rear triangle instead of lugs? Kerr and Walker new rears before Crankworx Whistler.
This rear triangle was on Dane Jewetts bike back in Leogang.
What is the new progressive geo that small brands are doing?There’s a lot of interesting stuff small brands make but geo genuinely seems to have found...
What is the new progressive geo that small brands are doing?
There’s a lot of interesting stuff small brands make but geo genuinely seems to have found a relative figured out equilibrium.
Can we say that trail geo is finally converging with what we've been seeing in DH?
My feeling is that we were all a little too obsessed with how a bike pedals, it’s uphill performance, etc. downcountry created a category that freed up trail bikes to be a bit more descent-focused. New stumpy and Bronson dropped a lot of anti-squat, and I think there is still a lot of AS on the table.
I think bike lurker is right about hta, sta, and reach. I also think DH bikes are borrowing a bit from enduro and getting longer and lower, but most riders don’t want or need that.
I personally want my enduro bike to be a DH bike that I can pedal. I don’t even care how “well” it pedals, I just want a regular drivetrain on it and a decent geo/dropper. I’m starting to see that idea come through in new bikes and it will be interesting to see how far we take it. There is a ton of space to explore!
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest. It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH...
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest.
It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH, and has a much lighter weight for its size. Granted the bike that it comes with has a major design change to the frame, but they’re claiming a whopping 10 pounds lighter weight over the 2024 model…
If they can make the battery out of air and cut the frame weight in half, that might be possible. LOL
The excitement over the ZF & other promised products is over the top. It's not even in production and people are acting like advert copy is proof the other products are no longer competitive at all.
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest. It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH...
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest.
It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH, and has a much lighter weight for its size. Granted the bike that it comes with has a major design change to the frame, but they’re claiming a whopping 10 pounds lighter weight over the 2024 model…
If they can make the battery out of air and cut the frame weight in half, that might be possible. LOLThe excitement over the ZF &...
If they can make the battery out of air and cut the frame weight in half, that might be possible. LOL
The excitement over the ZF & other promised products is over the top. It's not even in production and people are acting like advert copy is proof the other products are no longer competitive at all.
You'd be surprise to see some of the current frame weights of ebikes.
Going away from battery covers (integrated batteries) and investing in better design/engineering could help lose 6 lbs easy
from some of the frames currently on the market.
Add to that 1lbs in the new battery (3.9kg vs 4.4kg), some wiser spec choice and you can see almost 10lbs reduced just like that.
For DJI and ZF, the fact that these specific huge a$$ brands showed the systems makes it pretty credible and exciting.
I'm sure most brands currently making e systems are doing some rethinking about their future product line.
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest. It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH...
Saw a 2025 catalog this weekend that peaked my interest.
It looks like Bosch might have a new generation CX level battery coming out. Size 800 maH, and has a much lighter weight for its size. Granted the bike that it comes with has a major design change to the frame, but they’re claiming a whopping 10 pounds lighter weight over the 2024 model…
If they can make the battery out of air and cut the frame weight in half, that might be possible. LOLThe excitement over the ZF &...
If they can make the battery out of air and cut the frame weight in half, that might be possible. LOL
The excitement over the ZF & other promised products is over the top. It's not even in production and people are acting like advert copy is proof the other products are no longer competitive at all.
You'd be surprise to see some of the current frame weights of ebikes.Going away from battery covers (integrated batteries) and investing in better design/engineering could help...
You'd be surprise to see some of the current frame weights of ebikes.
Going away from battery covers (integrated batteries) and investing in better design/engineering could help lose 6 lbs easy
from some of the frames currently on the market.
Add to that 1lbs in the new battery (3.9kg vs 4.4kg), some wiser spec choice and you can see almost 10lbs reduced just like that.
For DJI and ZF, the fact that these specific huge a$$ brands showed the systems makes it pretty credible and exciting.
I'm sure most brands currently making e systems are doing some rethinking about their future product line.
Most CF e-bike frames weigh LESS than their bike counterparts once you remove the electronics/ shock. About 5-6#s for nearly all of them.
This is pretty obvious because you have a huge gap where the BB would be located.
Has there been a "total system weight" for the ZF drive unit? The unit itself is light...but it requires the aluminum lower shell to clamp it to the frame and act as a heatsink. So that needs to be included in any weight comparison.
My feeling is that we were all a little too obsessed with how a bike pedals, it’s uphill performance, etc. downcountry created a category that freed...
My feeling is that we were all a little too obsessed with how a bike pedals, it’s uphill performance, etc. downcountry created a category that freed up trail bikes to be a bit more descent-focused. New stumpy and Bronson dropped a lot of anti-squat, and I think there is still a lot of AS on the table.
I think bike lurker is right about hta, sta, and reach. I also think DH bikes are borrowing a bit from enduro and getting longer and lower, but most riders don’t want or need that.
I personally want my enduro bike to be a DH bike that I can pedal. I don’t even care how “well” it pedals, I just want a regular drivetrain on it and a decent geo/dropper. I’m starting to see that idea come through in new bikes and it will be interesting to see how far we take it. There is a ton of space to explore!
I think the “enduro” bike as we know it is dying. We keep seeing enduro bikes creeping towards DH bike territory with longer travel and dual crown compatibility, while trail bikes are creeping up on enduro bikes from the other side.
I can see the classic 160mm enduro bike going away and being replaced by 170-190mm descent focused bikes with dual crown compatibility like the Spire and Spindrift. Then riders with more mixed trails will gravitate to slightly shorter travel “all mountain” bikes like the Ripmo, Stumpy, and Bronson.
My feeling is that we were all a little too obsessed with how a bike pedals, it’s uphill performance, etc. downcountry created a category that freed...
My feeling is that we were all a little too obsessed with how a bike pedals, it’s uphill performance, etc. downcountry created a category that freed up trail bikes to be a bit more descent-focused. New stumpy and Bronson dropped a lot of anti-squat, and I think there is still a lot of AS on the table.
I think bike lurker is right about hta, sta, and reach. I also think DH bikes are borrowing a bit from enduro and getting longer and lower, but most riders don’t want or need that.
I personally want my enduro bike to be a DH bike that I can pedal. I don’t even care how “well” it pedals, I just want a regular drivetrain on it and a decent geo/dropper. I’m starting to see that idea come through in new bikes and it will be interesting to see how far we take it. There is a ton of space to explore!
I think the “enduro” bike as we know it is dying. We keep seeing enduro bikes creeping towards DH bike territory with longer travel and dual...
I think the “enduro” bike as we know it is dying. We keep seeing enduro bikes creeping towards DH bike territory with longer travel and dual crown compatibility, while trail bikes are creeping up on enduro bikes from the other side.
I can see the classic 160mm enduro bike going away and being replaced by 170-190mm descent focused bikes with dual crown compatibility like the Spire and Spindrift. Then riders with more mixed trails will gravitate to slightly shorter travel “all mountain” bikes like the Ripmo, Stumpy, and Bronson.
I’m with you. Progressive geo has really opened the doors to a re-categorization of bikes and how we can ride them. Bikes are fun enough now that we don’t even have to race them. The rise of the winch-and-plummet approach to riding (which has been more fun with these more capable stable bikes) means that less and less of us care about uphill performance.
Neo-progressive bikes will move back in some ways to pre-progressive traits, but balanced out with features that speak to the ways that the riding itself is changing. It’s a cycle of riding changing and bikes adapting, and the new bikes leading to new ways of riding, starting the process over again.
The cycle will stall on the big brands side until they can catch up with pre-Covid numbers and reassess where the market is and will go. Smaller core brands are going to keep killing it by making the bikes they (and we) want to ride.
If they can make the battery out of air and cut the frame weight in half, that might be possible. LOLThe excitement over the ZF &...
If they can make the battery out of air and cut the frame weight in half, that might be possible. LOL
The excitement over the ZF & other promised products is over the top. It's not even in production and people are acting like advert copy is proof the other products are no longer competitive at all.
To be fair, they weren’t boasting in the information I saw. They had a claimed weight for the complete bike, and it was 10 pounds less than a bike I’ve actually ridden. Again, a completely different frame design, but they did claim that the battery was also “significantly” lighter.
If they can make the battery out of air and cut the frame weight in half, that might be possible. LOLThe excitement over the ZF &...
If they can make the battery out of air and cut the frame weight in half, that might be possible. LOL
The excitement over the ZF & other promised products is over the top. It's not even in production and people are acting like advert copy is proof the other products are no longer competitive at all.
To be fair, they weren’t boasting in the information I saw. They had a claimed weight for the complete bike, and it was 10 pounds less...
To be fair, they weren’t boasting in the information I saw. They had a claimed weight for the complete bike, and it was 10 pounds less than a bike I’ve actually ridden. Again, a completely different frame design, but they did claim that the battery was also “significantly” lighter.
Unfortunately, these manufacturers REALLY exaggerate their weights. Size Small or medium, no tubes or sealant, no bottle cage, etc. It might not sound like much but that's 2-4#s right there alone. If you rode a L with proper tires, well there is your weight difference.
My feeling is that we were all a little too obsessed with how a bike pedals, it’s uphill performance, etc. downcountry created a category that freed...
My feeling is that we were all a little too obsessed with how a bike pedals, it’s uphill performance, etc. downcountry created a category that freed up trail bikes to be a bit more descent-focused. New stumpy and Bronson dropped a lot of anti-squat, and I think there is still a lot of AS on the table.
I think bike lurker is right about hta, sta, and reach. I also think DH bikes are borrowing a bit from enduro and getting longer and lower, but most riders don’t want or need that.
I personally want my enduro bike to be a DH bike that I can pedal. I don’t even care how “well” it pedals, I just want a regular drivetrain on it and a decent geo/dropper. I’m starting to see that idea come through in new bikes and it will be interesting to see how far we take it. There is a ton of space to explore!
I think the “enduro” bike as we know it is dying. We keep seeing enduro bikes creeping towards DH bike territory with longer travel and dual...
I think the “enduro” bike as we know it is dying. We keep seeing enduro bikes creeping towards DH bike territory with longer travel and dual crown compatibility, while trail bikes are creeping up on enduro bikes from the other side.
I can see the classic 160mm enduro bike going away and being replaced by 170-190mm descent focused bikes with dual crown compatibility like the Spire and Spindrift. Then riders with more mixed trails will gravitate to slightly shorter travel “all mountain” bikes like the Ripmo, Stumpy, and Bronson.
My position is that with the mid-power e-bikes that are coming out, those are going to replace 'Enduro' bikes.
Did you see the O'chain test that TeamRobot did? Pushing his Santa Cruz up that hill every time, while enjoying the improvement that the O-Chain brought.
Wouldn't the E-Slash fix both of those issues? Don't tell me that a mid-power e-bike is cheating. How is riding your e-bike uphill cheating, yet walking or shuttling is somehow considered real biking? Give me a break.
I think this new trend on longer chainstays will end up shortening reach a little, and even bringing back seat tube angles a little as well...
I think this new trend on longer chainstays will end up shortening reach a little, and even bringing back seat tube angles a little as well (keeping ETT while moving the bb forward a bit), in order to keep adecuate front-rear bias, at least from the most extreme numbers seen on some bikes. Head angles will normallize around 63.5°
BB height, taken as a static meassurement is of little interest, the shape of 160mm enduro bike and a 200mm dh bike is very different while riding, even if they share the same bb height while stationary
All this is a biassed reasoning from myself of course, as a flat pedal rider I tend to ride from the back of the bike more, so this makes sense for me at least
The bb part is not necessarily correct, as a lot of people run less sag on dh bike than they do on enduro bike to prevent it from feeling like complete pig. More travel is there only in reserve for those oh shit moments. So I would bet that dynamic ride height if you will is going to be very similar. Oh, pedal strikes are not nice regardless of the type of bike 🙂
Has anyone noticed that the Pivot DH prototype now has a full carbon rear triangle instead of lugs? Kerr and Walker new rears before Crankworx Whistler.
Has anyone noticed that the Pivot DH prototype now has a full carbon rear triangle instead of lugs? Kerr and Walker new rears before Crankworx Whistler.
A couple of weeks ago I saw the a frame with a carbon front triangle, it had the same massive pulley above the chainring as the prototype. Looked production ready to me
I think this new trend on longer chainstays will end up shortening reach a little, and even bringing back seat tube angles a little as well...
I think this new trend on longer chainstays will end up shortening reach a little, and even bringing back seat tube angles a little as well (keeping ETT while moving the bb forward a bit), in order to keep adecuate front-rear bias, at least from the most extreme numbers seen on some bikes. Head angles will normallize around 63.5°
BB height, taken as a static meassurement is of little interest, the shape of 160mm enduro bike and a 200mm dh bike is very different while riding, even if they share the same bb height while stationary
All this is a biassed reasoning from myself of course, as a flat pedal rider I tend to ride from the back of the bike more, so this makes sense for me at least
The bb part is not necessarily correct, as a lot of people run less sag on dh bike than they do on enduro bike to prevent...
The bb part is not necessarily correct, as a lot of people run less sag on dh bike than they do on enduro bike to prevent it from feeling like complete pig. More travel is there only in reserve for those oh shit moments. So I would bet that dynamic ride height if you will is going to be very similar. Oh, pedal strikes are not nice regardless of the type of bike 🙂
I get your point. I am not into dh bikes. People tend to ride with too soft suspension, and too little "dampening"🙂, they should keep some travel in reserve too, just in case.
About ebikes replacing enduro bikes... Does it make sense to pedal uphill a 25kg ebike instead of a 17kg regular mtb? Yes, kinda.
When is the new Trek Rail due?
https://www.propain-bikes.com/us/product/test-3ed05bd6-67f2-49ae-8a16-2cbe099d4a1d/frameset-spindrift-5-al/?srsltid=AfmBOopDV-vIFemhaEW0XAUVoRBaSraRKAt1dGq8fLKSfvOZeUM34GHV love the ohlins shock, there seem to be no proper routing on the cf frames, but on the video they have it, same on Remy bikes, so i guess in a few hours we'll find out, finger crossed! if it's anything like the spindrift 4 it's the best climbing 180mm bike on the market, even for 150mm standard
Longer chainstays more stack.
Definitely not the bike I was talking about. But… Bosch systems are a system, and it’s probable the Rail will come with it. The bike I was looking at is due in the spring.
New Bosch gen5 motor and components due out at the end of sept.
New 800w and 600w batteries and top tube integrated screen.
The 800w battery is lighter than the current 750w by about a pound with more advanced cells.
The motor is roughly the same weight as the gen4 with the same 85nm and 600w peak power and 2 bolt attachment rather than 3.
A slight evolution, not the leap DJI and ZF are bringing to the game .
There will however be many bikes with new/updated frames due to this change.
https://youtu.be/kPheR-8xsSs?si=kG55teSMUqcppsOX
I still have to find all the info but chapeau Propain,
Proper routing, sick looking frame, and frame storage too
Can we say that trail geo is finally converging with what we've been seeing in DH?
I don't think so, as they are and were always shorter than equivalent Enduro bikes in reach while typically longer in cs. Stack was more or less similar despite running a lot more travel in forks. So only thing that is about the same is HA and maybe BB height.
Is there a reason to go 2 bolt over 3 other than securing profit margins?
I think this new trend on longer chainstays will end up shortening reach a little, and even bringing back seat tube angles a little as well (keeping ETT while moving the bb forward a bit), in order to keep adecuate front-rear bias, at least from the most extreme numbers seen on some bikes. Head angles will normallize around 63.5°
BB height, taken as a static meassurement is of little interest, the shape of 160mm enduro bike and a 200mm dh bike is very different while riding, even if they share the same bb height while stationary
All this is a biassed reasoning from myself of course, as a flat pedal rider I tend to ride from the back of the bike more, so this makes sense for me at least
More space for wire management / less chance of damaging them during assembly and service of the bike?
*through a port in the headset
Just saw this from Wheel Based. New caliper from Shimano.
Has anyone noticed that the Pivot DH prototype now has a full carbon rear triangle instead of lugs? Kerr and Walker new rears before Crankworx Whistler.
Couple of leaks here and there, it's ready and the production frame will be shown very soon
This rear triangle was on Dane Jewetts bike back in Leogang.
My feeling is that we were all a little too obsessed with how a bike pedals, it’s uphill performance, etc. downcountry created a category that freed up trail bikes to be a bit more descent-focused. New stumpy and Bronson dropped a lot of anti-squat, and I think there is still a lot of AS on the table.
I think bike lurker is right about hta, sta, and reach. I also think DH bikes are borrowing a bit from enduro and getting longer and lower, but most riders don’t want or need that.
I personally want my enduro bike to be a DH bike that I can pedal. I don’t even care how “well” it pedals, I just want a regular drivetrain on it and a decent geo/dropper. I’m starting to see that idea come through in new bikes and it will be interesting to see how far we take it. There is a ton of space to explore!
If they can make the battery out of air and cut the frame weight in half, that might be possible. LOL
The excitement over the ZF & other promised products is over the top. It's not even in production and people are acting like advert copy is proof the other products are no longer competitive at all.
Wheelbased having a good old dig at Dario there!!!!!!
You'd be surprise to see some of the current frame weights of ebikes.
Going away from battery covers (integrated batteries) and investing in better design/engineering could help lose 6 lbs easy
from some of the frames currently on the market.
Add to that 1lbs in the new battery (3.9kg vs 4.4kg), some wiser spec choice and you can see almost 10lbs reduced just like that.
For DJI and ZF, the fact that these specific huge a$$ brands showed the systems makes it pretty credible and exciting.
I'm sure most brands currently making e systems are doing some rethinking about their future product line.
Most CF e-bike frames weigh LESS than their bike counterparts once you remove the electronics/ shock. About 5-6#s for nearly all of them.
This is pretty obvious because you have a huge gap where the BB would be located.
Has there been a "total system weight" for the ZF drive unit? The unit itself is light...but it requires the aluminum lower shell to clamp it to the frame and act as a heatsink. So that needs to be included in any weight comparison.
I think the “enduro” bike as we know it is dying. We keep seeing enduro bikes creeping towards DH bike territory with longer travel and dual crown compatibility, while trail bikes are creeping up on enduro bikes from the other side.
I can see the classic 160mm enduro bike going away and being replaced by 170-190mm descent focused bikes with dual crown compatibility like the Spire and Spindrift. Then riders with more mixed trails will gravitate to slightly shorter travel “all mountain” bikes like the Ripmo, Stumpy, and Bronson.
I’m with you. Progressive geo has really opened the doors to a re-categorization of bikes and how we can ride them. Bikes are fun enough now that we don’t even have to race them. The rise of the winch-and-plummet approach to riding (which has been more fun with these more capable stable bikes) means that less and less of us care about uphill performance.
Neo-progressive bikes will move back in some ways to pre-progressive traits, but balanced out with features that speak to the ways that the riding itself is changing. It’s a cycle of riding changing and bikes adapting, and the new bikes leading to new ways of riding, starting the process over again.
The cycle will stall on the big brands side until they can catch up with pre-Covid numbers and reassess where the market is and will go. Smaller core brands are going to keep killing it by making the bikes they (and we) want to ride.
To be fair, they weren’t boasting in the information I saw. They had a claimed weight for the complete bike, and it was 10 pounds less than a bike I’ve actually ridden. Again, a completely different frame design, but they did claim that the battery was also “significantly” lighter.
Unfortunately, these manufacturers REALLY exaggerate their weights. Size Small or medium, no tubes or sealant, no bottle cage, etc. It might not sound like much but that's 2-4#s right there alone. If you rode a L with proper tires, well there is your weight difference.
My position is that with the mid-power e-bikes that are coming out, those are going to replace 'Enduro' bikes.
Did you see the O'chain test that TeamRobot did? Pushing his Santa Cruz up that hill every time, while enjoying the improvement that the O-Chain brought.
Wouldn't the E-Slash fix both of those issues? Don't tell me that a mid-power e-bike is cheating. How is riding your e-bike uphill cheating, yet walking or shuttling is somehow considered real biking? Give me a break.
The bb part is not necessarily correct, as a lot of people run less sag on dh bike than they do on enduro bike to prevent it from feeling like complete pig. More travel is there only in reserve for those oh shit moments. So I would bet that dynamic ride height if you will is going to be very similar. Oh, pedal strikes are not nice regardless of the type of bike 🙂
A couple of weeks ago I saw the a frame with a carbon front triangle, it had the same massive pulley above the chainring as the prototype. Looked production ready to me
I get your point. I am not into dh bikes. People tend to ride with too soft suspension, and too little "dampening"🙂, they should keep some travel in reserve too, just in case.
About ebikes replacing enduro bikes... Does it make sense to pedal uphill a 25kg ebike instead of a 17kg regular mtb? Yes, kinda.