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Looks like they're adopting a polymer ring that fits between the spring and collar, similar to what Push does? Hopefully that ring will fit on existing shocks, mine sometimes develops a creak from that interface after particularly muddy rides. Small and low cost detail that I think all coil shocks would benefit from.
Looks like a Carbonda FM1003. I had one. It rode alright, but was (quite) a bit too soft off the top for me. Even as a chonky lad (~105kg at the time, less now), having to use a 650lb spring and still being slightly undersprung was annoying. Frame "feel" definitely prioritized compliance over stiffness, which I liked but those that want a really stiff frame probably wouldn't.
Sadly the linkage bearings died in a very short order though (as in, 3 or so moderate trail rides). There just wasn't any weather sealing on the inside of the links so one reasonably wet ride ended in a pretty sad (gritty, lightly binding) linkage bearings.
The FM936 I had prior was excellent though (seriously lively "downcountry" whippet), and the FM1001 was good too (135mm trail bike. Bit doughy uphill but heaps of fun on descents to the point you'd take it above it travel-bracket pay-grade pretty quickly). FM1001 was ridiculous fun when overforked and mulleted too.
Rumor I heard is Loic running a coil, along with rock shox internals paired with top caps that are Ohlins in appearance only.
Is someone pulling your leg or are you pulling ours?
Edit: Not a lot surprises me any more, but RS internals? That seems pretty out there, especially considering the general praise for Öhlins's forks. Which internals specifically, though?
Seems unlikely (they would likely be able to whip up a custom tune with whatever they would want given the level of support offered to the Specialized team), but on the other hand years ago MS Mondraker did run a Fox damper in a Marzocchi fork on Brooks bike (well before the acquisition, 26" days). The image was fairly quickly pulled from the Vital slideshow though.
It’s a rumor for sure…so there’s that. It came from a pretty knowledgeable source. Same weekend I heard the rumor, I personally saw the demo prototype (whatever it’s being called), so I know one of the protos had been around the area…I’m not sure who was riding it.
Yep, V4.
Blister podcast (Bikes & Big ideas) had an interview with EXT founder Franco Fratton in which they talked about the updates.
Last year at Snowshoe he was running air, not to say he couldn’t have changed. Or some type of hybrid system coil/air.
Makes sense. If I was at that level, I would have a fist full of ideal setups for changing courses/conditions.
Update on steel Frameworks:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8Eq5WRtOMf/
EDIT: I can't get the embed to work
Oh its working now.
Interesting analysis on compliance vs precision. For trail and enduro applications, I'm convinced most aluminum and carbon frames are too stiff. I'd wager that most DH bikes are too stiff for us mere mortals, but I've never ridden a DH bike marketed as "compliant".
Part of me wonders if the longer axle to crown of 200mm travel DH forks give the same practical compliance as a stiffer enduro/trail frame despite being stiffer from an absolute perspective. Or it could be that world cup caliber racers are riding so much faster/harder that a stiffer chassis ends up flexing the same distance as when I ride, going a lot slower. Or it could just be that professionals require handling precision (stiffness) that I can't even feel given my mortal riding skills.
They are coming. We were hoping to have them in stock before the season got rolling, but there were some delays.
I'd say you're right about flex relative to skill/speed on a DH bike. The pros run their suspension WAY stiffer than I would, so I imagine frame flex would also need be different.
Ya, I've always been curious if pros run really harsh compression or if they run super high pressures/springs, since that would effect sag. For the rear they typically run custom links to get insane progression, but I wonder about forks. I suppose since RS and Fox both run air springs, they just cram all the tokens in there.
For what it's worth, I bought Dean Lucas' 2014 worlds Devinci Wilson off him, had a spring converted Boxxer world cup (NSR racing), Factory linkage part and a custom valved Vivid coil. I have approx 20kg on Dean and it was way too soft for me, I think they would run in the 15% sag range up front and 20-25% up back if I was to guess.
This was before bikes had good cable management, chainstay protectors etc, but that bike amazed me with how quiet a bike can be, that factory velcro treatment!
Fork stiffness- I do think that the longer DH forks flex a bit more because of the length and as you lower them in the clamps that can offer more comfort, but to me if I rode a Boxxer (38) or Ohlins (38) it still more comfortable than a fox 40 in the flex character.
Frame Flex- I 100% agree that the pros are pushing the frames harder so a bike that I might feel is rigid, the pro could think that is on the edge of soft. I’ve rode a frameworks a few times and compared to other bikes, it’s on the edge of being rigid for me, so I can imagine if Neko at his size and speed thinks it’s right, I can’t totally imagine that. Where as I love the flex of a steel frame that’s similar to his, but him and Asa think it’s too soft.
Shaft speeds- I’ve done a bunch of suspension data and talked with a few of the technicians who test with the pros and they say comp and Reb speeds are similar, it’s more spring rate that will change. Your body can only handle so much impact or frequency if your pro or amateur.
"...a 3D printed elbow for the bend..."
So that explains the appearance, it looked like they'd used steam pipe
Axle to Crown on dual crown forks is effectively lower compared to single crown forks at same travel. Or vice versa, a 38 mm single crown fork is about as tall as a 200 mm dual crown fork. And the two crowns do add quite a bit of stiffness to it. There might be a thread about it on the forums
New XC whip from Scott, or just new paint?
True! So maybe a 36mm Boxxer dual crown would feel closer to a 38 single crown like a fox or Zeb. But then you have the lowers construction that add or reduce stiffness.
I had a frame made by Prosise. Here is the 3d steel part that was used on my frame.
Don't know the exact values, it's all in the thread. The title is something along the lines of How stiff are dual crown forks. I opened the thread, so I guess you could find it through my profile.
Yes, but few people run more than 170mm single crown, and no one runs less than 200mm dual crown. Also, the stiffness of the dual crown vs single means that even more flex is transferred to the frame.
Quite a few people run 180 and 190 dual crowns on trail bikes.
Hey look, a whole thread about fork stiffness! https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/How-stiff-are-dual-crown-fork…
that thread is about fork stiffness, not how axle to crown length affects given frame designs.
So maybe derail that thread instead of this one?
LBS just posted this, new to me, anyone else heard of it? (The MTB version; I know about the moto kind)
I’ve heard of a few guys in So Cal testing them. They could have potential if they can get the feel of the “air pressure” to feel normal. I believe they are super light weight.
New ZEB is gonna arrive TODAY lads.