Hello Vital MTB Visitor,
We’re conducting a survey and would appreciate your input. Your answers will help Vital and the MTB industry better understand what riders like you want. Survey results will be used to recognize top brands. Make your voice heard!
Five lucky people will be selected at random to win a Vital MTB t-shirt.
Thanks in advance,
The Vital MTB Crew
That's super helpful. Never heard this but that makes a ton of sense. Thanks dude!
I just got a set of Cura 4s for my new enduro build. For background, I've ridden Dominions, TRP DH-Rs and Quadiems, Shimano XT, Codes, and done a parking lot test on the mavens.
I'm running 203 front/rear rotors (Formula Monolithic) with Galfer Standard pads. Stock levers. 150lb rider but quite aggressive.
Overall I'm just going to say that the Cura 4s are pretty good. They bleed quite easily, although they are brand new brakes, so time will tell if the bleed gets harder. They have EXTREMELY good modulation, dare I say the best of any brake I have tried (Dominions are close/similar). The lever pull is middle-of-the-road: not the lightest but not the firmest, and not the shortest dead stroke but also not the longest. The biggest thing I note about them is that they do not have quite as much power as I would like. Just today on my ride I was really pushing my braking points late, and I ended up overshooting some corners while pulling with almost everything I could muster. I felt like if I had my Dominions or TRPs back that I could have made the corners that I overshot. I am going to try some different pads (either Formula Sintered or Galfer Pro compound), as well as a 220 front rotor. I will not come to a final conclusion until I try the new pads/rotor, but for now if I were to buy new brakes I would not go with the Formulas. If money were no object I would definitely be getting Kahas or Intends, but realistically I would get Dominions. That's not to say the Formulas are bad, it's just that for my riding style I do want more power.
Stock Cura4 pads are not great. aliexpress Kingstop ones are much better.
That's good feedback, thanks.
I'd be curious what the FCS levers accomplish or if they make them more workable, it sounds like they improved leverage all around and may add more power, but the lack of power there is concerning.
I'd love to get your opinion on the Lewis brake performance as I think you'd be pleasantly surprised coming from those brakes. I certainly prefer mine over my DH-R Evos
Anyone happen to have info on has happened with TRP metallic pads going out of production? I asked them when more would be available and got this response:
"Unfortunately, we do not have an ETA at this time for a new metallic compound. We are working to make one as soon as possible."
Just got a follow up from TRP:
"Materials shortages so we have discontinued that metallic compound and are working on a new one."
In my experience the Monolithic rotors tend to loose bite and power after aggressive riding pretty fast. They started of great but all of a sudden they lost all power.
I now have Galfer pro pads with Galfer wave rotors 223/203 and can't say I have tried more powerful brakes.
Would recommend to get new rotors as it did wonders for me.
Does it have anything to do with bans on copper in brake pads?
i read your thoughts about 3 times already, new batch of Trinity is coming next week and i'm considering waking up at 5am and brake the bank,
currently on tuned MT7 with Oak lever, i love the radial levers and so Intend make heaps of sense, lighter feel, more power, better construction, seal and spare parts availability, twisting hose, mineral oil, easy af bleed, it sounds great on paper, although it means 1000$ expense and early wake trying to get them.
other option i feel is good for spare parts and such would be the Hope tech4 V4 that would cost me half the money literally, but come with a messy bleed and dot fluid that i'm not super convinced on, plus, not sure about the lever blade feel as many say it's sharp on your fingers which i believe intend is not.
What are you thoughts? Should i try pulling the trigger and braking the bank with Intends or go with Hopes whenever i can since they're easy to get anyway? i mean, is the performance and ease to live with of Intend worth double money vs Hope?
and i'll add, Intend uses Plutoline oil which seems to be the best one to bleed but the worst in terms of heat resistance, i'd go with Bionol if choosing, it seems to be the best one
https://www.radicperformance.com/brake-fluid-tech#:~:text=MAXIMA%20MINE…
Get the Intends. You won't regret it.
The only circumstance where I'd recommend the Hope T4 V4 over the Intends is if you really want a light engagement point. Some do, some don't. I find it a bit on the vague side, although manageable. They are great brakes, but they lack the attention to detail and overall finish quality of the Intends.
** Ok, one more circumstance: If you run large grips like I mentioned before, the Hopes are more versatile in lever positioning. This is a minority of riders but worth noting.
i run esi grips so no problem with that, had any issues with the plutoline? it seems to have a really low flashpoint, no boiling point stated, it seems to be a suspension oil
I tried to fade them and couldn't. Consistent the entire time.
Shit. i guess i have to put the alarm at 5 am next wednesday, Refrigerator or not? i hope they're not rattly
Are you on the 1.8 or 2.0 Galfer rotors? I definitely like my 2.3 rotors, but if the thinner Galfer rotors are an overall improvement to the Curas then I'll definitely consider them.
I can't speak to the performance difference with or without Refrigerators, I ran them full time.
The Refrigerators don't work like normal pad fins, though, they seat into the area around the piston. No rattling or noise, but they do pop out at times when you are working on the brakes. They remained in place and quiet the entire time I ran them on the bike, it was only a minor nuisance when working on them. If I had to work the pistons, I got to where I just removed them then reinstalled. Non-issue either way.
I would get whatever you can. They are only dropping 50 sets, when I got mine all were gone in under 3 minutes and there was only one left for about 2 of those minutes.
As for my next dose of brake addiction/experimentation, I ended up ordering both Cura types: 2 and 4 piston. I'm going to use Trickstuff pads right away and see how they fare. I get a lot of mixed impressions on these, some say the 2 pistons are better, some say 4, some say they both are middling or mediocre. They were cheap enough to get and try. I also got the FCS levers, although they were somewhat hard to come by as they are sold out most places, but apparently they add leverage. We'll see.
If you are seriously considering them, you should prep before the drop. They do PayPal or bank transfer but PayPal is faster. Make sure you are logged in shortly before the drop so you don't have to fumble at checkout. Have your primary payment method is all sorted out. Also add your accessories like brake pads, extra oil etc beforehand so you don't have to waste time shopping. As Shinook mentioned, you have 3 minutes at best to complete the purchase.
Good luck! You will not regret them. Even if you do, the resale will be easy.
PS. There's someone over at MTBR selling a like-new pair if you want an easier way.
Since you’re getting other brakes as well, do you have any trickstuff or intends for sale?
Nice topic this, as someone who’s incredibly fussy about brake feel it’s been an interesting read. Would love to try the intends and Trickstuff one day. My setup is MT7s with the hc3 levers on hope 2.3mm rotors. Did try the oak levers and liked the bite point adjustment as I like a short lever throw but I like the leverage adjust on the hc3 to much so swapped back. Now I shim the pads as they wear to keep the pistons in and also put a block in between the the lever and master cylinder to shorten throw
I am on the 2.0 mm rotors at the moment. Can’t say they are any worse in heat management compared to the Monolithic rotors but they have way more power/bite.
I want to try 2.3 mm again but with my bad experience with the monolithic rotors I’m gonna try the Intend massive or the new TRP rotors when the current ones wear out.
I think half the reason that thick rotors feel better is that there is less gap between pad and rotor and therefore less chance for sticky Pistons to impact performance, and also less rotor warp under load making the S shape from the pad force.
Obviously the heat management is billed as the main benefit, but because you are forced to align your pistons and pads properly because of the tighter tolerances you unknowingly get a much better product.
Can we petition Hope to release the custom levers Joe Barnes is using.....I really want tech4's but I hate the lever shape so much when I've tried them (not the length....just the shape).
Technically, if the system is designed to take anything from a 2,3 mm to a 1,8 mm rotor (so there is enough oil in the reservoir and the bladder is flexible enough to compensate for the change in volume AND the caliper has the space and the pistons are long enough to compensate the 0,5 mm in difference besides pad wear), the pad gap should be the same regardless of rotor thickness.
indeed, we can argue that a thicker rotor makes the pistons work more inside the caliper but even when i put trp rotors 2.3mm with purple galfer ( way thicker than the trickstuff power that i use ) on my mt7 the gap between pads and rotor was the exact same as 2mm rotor and trick pads
I've got Dominions on the E-bike and Cura 4's on the DH bike. The Cura 4's don't do anything wrong to me, and while it's all personal, I find the lever feel decent. The power ramps up in a linear fashion, more pull, more stop. They just don't stop as hard as the Dominions in my opinion. Which engage quicker and seem to provide more power for a given amount of finger pressure. Despite the bike weight more, I can ride longer before finger fatigue sets in with them.
I've got a set of Direttissima's where the rear caliper has been giving me issues and I'm kinda over them. So my thought is I'm finally going to get around to fitting the Cura 4 calipers to the DT levers in an attempt to get the power equal to or greater than what I feel with the Dominions.
The Dominions installed on the ebike have MTX pads on them now, the Cura 4's have Trickstuff Power+ pads.
That being said, YMMV as it seems brakes are very personal and one man's meat is another man's poison.
That's good feedback, thanks. I ordered both the 2 and 4s to try out with Trickstuff pads. I'll offer some impressions when I get them on. Ironically, getting the oil shipped from CO is taking longer to get here than the brakes coming from Germany.
They seem somewhat polarizing. Like you said it's hard to define what "power" is because everyone sees it differently, is on different bikes and terrain, and likes a different feel. Both the 2 and 4 have pretty wildly different impressions out there. I'm going to be running a Selva C soon and figured I'd give their brakes a shot also, but I do understand the stock pads aren't powerful by today's standards. The Enduro MTB test showed something similar, with the Sinter Green pads the performance was respectable although not comparable to Trickstuff or Hope, not far off, but the stock organic pads weren't great. They didn't test the 2 and the data from the 2018 test is a bit hard to compare. There isn't a lot of data on pad contact, some saying the four requires a longer stroke than the two, but I can't really get a feel for how much deadstroke there is. One of my main beefs with the Dominions is the long deadstroke in the lever throw, it's not awful and I've had worse, but I'd prefer it shorter even if it means a more fickle setup.
I also have a set of FCS levers coming in, which supposedly changes the leverage, these were in the recent PB review for the four and the Enduro MTB test, but no prior tests with the 2. The stock leverage on these is pretty middling based on #s alone, so this might help some. The guys at Geometron had good things to say about them, but they recommended the lever upgrade and using different pads for me at my weight. Paul Aston had good things to say about the 2s when he reviewed them also, but comparisons against Code, Guide, etc elsewhere give me pause. I'd prefer something on the grabbier side.
I'll report in after I've had some time on them, but would be curious to hear what others say as well.
https://p.vitalmtb.com/styles/full_size_1600/s3/photos/users/94/photos/…
wondering what the changes are on these compared to the dhr evo lever, i tried them once ( the current ones ) and i loved the modulation but lacked power compared to my mt7
Looks like an effort to get the lever closer to the bar?
Most people running DH-R Evos seem to run the lever further out for whatever reason, this looks like you can bring it in closer. No personal experience though, just an observation.
The lever reach adjustment is limited on the DHR evos and most TRP brakes i've used.
Some people cut extra threads into the adjustment bolt that allows the lever to get closer to the bar before bottoming out... the world cup teams have had access to longer reach adjustment screws for years, but that does also look like a new lever.
It must be a safety or durability thing that keeps them from shipping with adjustment that allows you to get the lever properly close to the grip.
All the newer TRP DHR EVOs come with longer push rods now and the longer push rods are available to purchase for older DHRs. They allow the lever to be adjusted all the way to the grip if desired. I believe it was a quiet running change and is part #6 below
https://trpcycling.com/products/dh-r-evo-lever-small-parts
Post a reply to: Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment