MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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matmattmatthew
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365
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Location
Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
1/30/2024 7:08pm

All this robot talk...I'm gonna go in my garage and build a bamboo bike.  

9
fluider
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37
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1/7/2021
Location
SK
1/30/2024 9:47pm

Wau! That is interesting video with Banshee frame. I'm sure, for this time it was human force who very cautiously put all frame tubes and fixed into welding jig. But in 10 years maybe robots will do that as well :-). Imagine, if small brand like Banshee can use this method which in my opinion isn't cheap, then for bigger brands it must be cheaper. 

Primoz
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1/30/2024 10:56pm

All this robot talk...I'm gonna go in my garage and build a bamboo bike.  

Carbon lugs?

monarchmason
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299
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5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
1/31/2024 6:52am

All this robot talk...I'm gonna go in my garage and build a bamboo bike.  

Primoz wrote:

Carbon lugs?

Even better, bamboo lugs, oversized titanium tubing. 

9
Primoz
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1/31/2024 7:46am

Even better, just make bamboo grow in frame shapes.

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matmattmatthew
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Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
1/31/2024 8:42am

All this robot talk...I'm gonna go in my garage and build a bamboo bike.  

Primoz wrote:

Carbon lugs?

A buddy of mine actually has a half bamboo, half carbon hardtail.  

2
jonkranked
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Norristown, PA US
1/31/2024 8:55am

A buddy of mine actually has a half bamboo, half carbon hardtail.  

back in college some friends of mine were making steel hardtails with lugged carbon tube seat stays and top tubes. the guys that ran Draco if anyone remembers that from that PB era, i wanna say 06-08ish?  they were very cool frames and i regret not being able to afford one at the time. 

monarchmason
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Nevada City, CA US
1/31/2024 9:24am

All this talk about bamboo has me wondering, does anyone know what the strength of hemp composite fiber is? Id be pretty interested in buying from a company that is pretty much Atherton frames but the tubes are hemp fiber tubes. I know a company used it in body panels for a race car. But Id assume those only need to be a little strong but more so specific in shape than anything. 

2
earleb
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North Vancouver, BC CA
Fantasy
1/31/2024 10:23am
All this talk about bamboo has me wondering, does anyone know what the strength of hemp composite fiber is? Id be pretty interested in buying from...

All this talk about bamboo has me wondering, does anyone know what the strength of hemp composite fiber is? Id be pretty interested in buying from a company that is pretty much Atherton frames but the tubes are hemp fiber tubes. I know a company used it in body panels for a race car. But Id assume those only need to be a little strong but more so specific in shape than anything. 

It's flax not hemp that has been used as a carbon replacement in race car body panels. See bcomp amplitex.

3
austin-NC
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Location
Lincolnton , NC US
1/31/2024 10:43am

I work in manufacturing with tons of CNC and I can certainly see the lugged approach becoming much more common. If you are getting the lugs cast in aluminum instead of the 3D printing they can be very cheap after the initial outlay in molds (still tons cheaper than carbon molds). A little bit of post mold machining which is very easy and efficient to have setup. Carbon tubes are very cheap as well.

Now comparing it to welding or carbon here is one thing but when you talk about these processes being perfected overseas the cost comparison becomes less convincing but all equal being made in the same place it would be more efficient. 

6
Dave_Camp
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CO US
1/31/2024 11:24am

I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.

Not sure why the bike industry is so against castings… all these machined rear triangle parts could be cast cheaply.  Could do sand castings off a machined piece to reduce tool cost? 

Could also do magnesium castings for chainstay/seatstays- similar to a fork lower leg.  Tooling for that is insane but part cost is very low.  

 

7
3
jeff.brines
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Grand Junction, CO US
1/31/2024 11:43am
Dave_Camp wrote:
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti. Not sure why the bike industry is...

I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.

Not sure why the bike industry is so against castings… all these machined rear triangle parts could be cast cheaply.  Could do sand castings off a machined piece to reduce tool cost? 

Could also do magnesium castings for chainstay/seatstays- similar to a fork lower leg.  Tooling for that is insane but part cost is very low.  

 

FWIW, Polaris (and I think Ferrari) has done carbon to aluminum using LORD's adhesive. In the snowmobile world, the parts being bonded were critical load bearing parts of the chassis, so I *think* it can be done. 

That said, Polaris said fuck it and went back to aluminum to aluminum because they realized nobody cares about the minimal weight savings of carbon fiber in this application. 

 

6
samdaman1
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12/18/2016
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GB
1/31/2024 11:44am Edited Date/Time 1/31/2024 11:44am

If Brendog's instagram story is anything to go by, it seems the new ransom might be out tomorrow

8
Primoz
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SI
1/31/2024 11:48am

I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of casting ready aluminium alloys might be a bit on the lower side compared to 6000 and 7000 'aircraft grade' alloys, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary factor. That and the cost of investment.

Casting is very good for chunky parts. I'd say it'd be good for rocker links for example. Seatstays and chainstays I'm not so sure... Fork lowers are still tubes which gives them a lot of strength.

Also, yeah, flax fibres are widely used. Apparently damping properties of it are very very good.

5
Dave_Camp
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Location
CO US
1/31/2024 11:59am
Primoz wrote:
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of...

I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of casting ready aluminium alloys might be a bit on the lower side compared to 6000 and 7000 'aircraft grade' alloys, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary factor. That and the cost of investment.

Casting is very good for chunky parts. I'd say it'd be good for rocker links for example. Seatstays and chainstays I'm not so sure... Fork lowers are still tubes which gives them a lot of strength.

Also, yeah, flax fibres are widely used. Apparently damping properties of it are very very good.

Doesn’t need to be airtight 😂

Agree about the agriculture grade materials- we did some gravity cast aluminum bits- was close enough to 6061 to work.  

Forks are die cast mag- as they do need to hold air/oil and get the good surface finish. 
 

either way cool to see different manufacturing types coming, just seems everyone is focused on staying high end. 

2
1
Simcik
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442
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Location
Loma, CO US
1/31/2024 12:14pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti. Not sure why the bike industry is...

I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.

Not sure why the bike industry is so against castings… all these machined rear triangle parts could be cast cheaply.  Could do sand castings off a machined piece to reduce tool cost? 

Could also do magnesium castings for chainstay/seatstays- similar to a fork lower leg.  Tooling for that is insane but part cost is very low.  

 

Experience from working in warranty at a carbon crank manufacturer years ago. The layer that forms on aluminum when air hits it prevents the bond from fully happening and over time they are prone to separating. Maybe I am not fully understanding what was going on, but that was essentially what happened each time cranks came in for warranty. Was extremely rare to see an actual carbon failure aside from impact on them.

2
1/31/2024 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 2/1/2024 1:02pm
Primoz wrote:

Even better, just make bamboo grow in frame shapes.

Fezzari brings out Monoform bamboo manufacturing to replace the carbon on their road bikes.

1
Primoz
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4586
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8/1/2009
Location
SI
1/31/2024 12:35pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti. Not sure why the bike industry is...

I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.

Not sure why the bike industry is so against castings… all these machined rear triangle parts could be cast cheaply.  Could do sand castings off a machined piece to reduce tool cost? 

Could also do magnesium castings for chainstay/seatstays- similar to a fork lower leg.  Tooling for that is insane but part cost is very low.  

 

FWIW, Polaris (and I think Ferrari) has done carbon to aluminum using LORD's adhesive. In the snowmobile world, the parts being bonded were critical load bearing...

FWIW, Polaris (and I think Ferrari) has done carbon to aluminum using LORD's adhesive. In the snowmobile world, the parts being bonded were critical load bearing parts of the chassis, so I *think* it can be done. 

That said, Polaris said fuck it and went back to aluminum to aluminum because they realized nobody cares about the minimal weight savings of carbon fiber in this application. 

 

I was told (friend of a friend kinda deal, so far from first hand experience) that anything not aerospace in regards to aluminium to carbon bonding will likely corrode in ~5 years. The guy, apparently an aerospace engineer, said he wouldn't ride a carbon bike or wheels, or a car or a racecar with a carbon tub with aluminium inserts if over 5 years old. You also have different temperature expansion coefficient problem with the two materials acting on the bonded joint.

On the other hand aluminium cars are bonded, not welded, partly because of the reasons that were outlined in the last few posts - energy intensity, warpage, surface finish, etc. That and parts tend to be extruded and/or cast (Tesla megacasting). Also, Lotus Elise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-TiFKr2yb0

As for Lord, they are part of the Parker conglomerate, the biggest motion control company in the world, a Fortune 500 company, etc. They are very legit Smile

2
1/31/2024 1:39pm

Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?! Wink Now lets speculate what Specialized are waiting for to be thoroughly tested and refined before they release the next Kenevo! 😜😁 

4
1/31/2024 1:41pm

dar-mav

It appears Dario (Pinkbike tech editor) was testing the SRAM Maven brakes yesterday.. Maybe launch is finally around the corner.

12
metadave
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1249
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2/15/2016
Location
Revelstoke, BC CA
Fantasy
1/31/2024 3:16pm
Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?! ;) Now...

Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?! Wink Now lets speculate what Specialized are waiting for to be thoroughly tested and refined before they release the next Kenevo! 😜😁 

Searched quick but couldn't find anything, got a link?? That sounds very interesting

monarchmason
Posts
299
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Location
Nevada City, CA US
1/31/2024 4:48pm
Primoz wrote:
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of...

I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of casting ready aluminium alloys might be a bit on the lower side compared to 6000 and 7000 'aircraft grade' alloys, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary factor. That and the cost of investment.

Casting is very good for chunky parts. I'd say it'd be good for rocker links for example. Seatstays and chainstays I'm not so sure... Fork lowers are still tubes which gives them a lot of strength.

Also, yeah, flax fibres are widely used. Apparently damping properties of it are very very good.

I just read into flax fiber a little, unfortunately its not as strong under performance use in comparison to standard carbon fiber. Probably why we do not have it for bikes. Sad. 

1/31/2024 6:02pm
Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?! ;) Now...

Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?! Wink Now lets speculate what Specialized are waiting for to be thoroughly tested and refined before they release the next Kenevo! 😜😁 

metadave wrote:

Searched quick but couldn't find anything, got a link?? That sounds very interesting

Also there’s an instagram account about it - “brose.ebike” or something. Smile

TomJones
Posts
28
Joined
9/22/2015
Location
San Jose, CA US
1/31/2024 8:23pm

A buddy of mine actually has a half bamboo, half carbon hardtail.  

jonkranked wrote:
back in college some friends of mine were making steel hardtails with lugged carbon tube seat stays and top tubes. the guys that ran Draco if...

back in college some friends of mine were making steel hardtails with lugged carbon tube seat stays and top tubes. the guys that ran Draco if anyone remembers that from that PB era, i wanna say 06-08ish?  they were very cool frames and i regret not being able to afford one at the time. 

Damn that brings back some memories! I had a Draco, the only Tonka yellow one as far as I know. I would love to know where that frame is now

 

2
Primoz
Posts
4586
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
1/31/2024 8:53pm
Primoz wrote:
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of...

I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of casting ready aluminium alloys might be a bit on the lower side compared to 6000 and 7000 'aircraft grade' alloys, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary factor. That and the cost of investment.

Casting is very good for chunky parts. I'd say it'd be good for rocker links for example. Seatstays and chainstays I'm not so sure... Fork lowers are still tubes which gives them a lot of strength.

Also, yeah, flax fibres are widely used. Apparently damping properties of it are very very good.

I just read into flax fiber a little, unfortunately its not as strong under performance use in comparison to standard carbon fiber. Probably why we do...

I just read into flax fiber a little, unfortunately its not as strong under performance use in comparison to standard carbon fiber. Probably why we do not have it for bikes. Sad. 

I think it's also a bit harder to work with. And it's a bit oily so epoxy doesn't stick to it as well and tends to crack over time... 

It is used in ski construction quite a bit though. 

2
Karabuka
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434
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12/1/2011
Location
SI
2/1/2024 12:06am

Screenshot 20240201 090218 Instagram 1.jpg?VersionId= fdNew banshee also seems imminent. Darkside as super enduro considering the sc fork?

12
dolface
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1679
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10/26/2015
Location
CA US
2/1/2024 6:38am
Onawalk wrote:
New Chilcotin Medium is 483mm reach, thats a stretch.... I love this bike! https://knollybikes.com/en-ca/products/chilcotin-170

New Chilcotin

Medium is 483mm reach, thats a stretch....

I love this bike!

https://knollybikes.com/en-ca/products/chilcotin-170

Knolly Chilcotin .original.jpg?VersionId=HRVA41oZR5dttdABBI1hd7RrQMn7P

That's a good looking bike but yeah, the reach numbers are up in Canyon territory and Superboost Silly

9
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