All this talk about bamboo has me wondering, does anyone know what the strength of hemp composite fiber is? Id be pretty interested in buying from a company that is pretty much Atherton frames but the tubes are hemp fiber tubes. I know a company used it in body panels for a race car. But Id assume those only need to be a little strong but more so specific in shape than anything.
All this talk about bamboo has me wondering, does anyone know what the strength of hemp composite fiber is? Id be pretty interested in buying from...
All this talk about bamboo has me wondering, does anyone know what the strength of hemp composite fiber is? Id be pretty interested in buying from a company that is pretty much Atherton frames but the tubes are hemp fiber tubes. I know a company used it in body panels for a race car. But Id assume those only need to be a little strong but more so specific in shape than anything.
It's flax not hemp that has been used as a carbon replacement in race car body panels. See bcomp amplitex.
I work in manufacturing with tons of CNC and I can certainly see the lugged approach becoming much more common. If you are getting the lugs cast in aluminum instead of the 3D printing they can be very cheap after the initial outlay in molds (still tons cheaper than carbon molds). A little bit of post mold machining which is very easy and efficient to have setup. Carbon tubes are very cheap as well.
Now comparing it to welding or carbon here is one thing but when you talk about these processes being perfected overseas the cost comparison becomes less convincing but all equal being made in the same place it would be more efficient.
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.
Not sure why the bike industry is so against castings… all these machined rear triangle parts could be cast cheaply. Could do sand castings off a machined piece to reduce tool cost?
Could also do magnesium castings for chainstay/seatstays- similar to a fork lower leg. Tooling for that is insane but part cost is very low.
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.
Not sure why the bike industry is...
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.
Not sure why the bike industry is so against castings… all these machined rear triangle parts could be cast cheaply. Could do sand castings off a machined piece to reduce tool cost?
Could also do magnesium castings for chainstay/seatstays- similar to a fork lower leg. Tooling for that is insane but part cost is very low.
FWIW, Polaris (and I think Ferrari) has done carbon to aluminum using LORD's adhesive. In the snowmobile world, the parts being bonded were critical load bearing parts of the chassis, so I *think* it can be done.
That said, Polaris said fuck it and went back to aluminum to aluminum because they realized nobody cares about the minimal weight savings of carbon fiber in this application.
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of casting ready aluminium alloys might be a bit on the lower side compared to 6000 and 7000 'aircraft grade' alloys, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary factor. That and the cost of investment.
Casting is very good for chunky parts. I'd say it'd be good for rocker links for example. Seatstays and chainstays I'm not so sure... Fork lowers are still tubes which gives them a lot of strength.
Also, yeah, flax fibres are widely used. Apparently damping properties of it are very very good.
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of...
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of casting ready aluminium alloys might be a bit on the lower side compared to 6000 and 7000 'aircraft grade' alloys, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary factor. That and the cost of investment.
Casting is very good for chunky parts. I'd say it'd be good for rocker links for example. Seatstays and chainstays I'm not so sure... Fork lowers are still tubes which gives them a lot of strength.
Also, yeah, flax fibres are widely used. Apparently damping properties of it are very very good.
Doesn’t need to be airtight 😂
Agree about the agriculture grade materials- we did some gravity cast aluminum bits- was close enough to 6061 to work.
Forks are die cast mag- as they do need to hold air/oil and get the good surface finish.
either way cool to see different manufacturing types coming, just seems everyone is focused on staying high end.
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.
Not sure why the bike industry is...
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.
Not sure why the bike industry is so against castings… all these machined rear triangle parts could be cast cheaply. Could do sand castings off a machined piece to reduce tool cost?
Could also do magnesium castings for chainstay/seatstays- similar to a fork lower leg. Tooling for that is insane but part cost is very low.
Experience from working in warranty at a carbon crank manufacturer years ago. The layer that forms on aluminum when air hits it prevents the bond from fully happening and over time they are prone to separating. Maybe I am not fully understanding what was going on, but that was essentially what happened each time cranks came in for warranty. Was extremely rare to see an actual carbon failure aside from impact on them.
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.
Not sure why the bike industry is...
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.
Not sure why the bike industry is so against castings… all these machined rear triangle parts could be cast cheaply. Could do sand castings off a machined piece to reduce tool cost?
Could also do magnesium castings for chainstay/seatstays- similar to a fork lower leg. Tooling for that is insane but part cost is very low.
FWIW, Polaris (and I think Ferrari) has done carbon to aluminum using LORD's adhesive. In the snowmobile world, the parts being bonded were critical load bearing...
FWIW, Polaris (and I think Ferrari) has done carbon to aluminum using LORD's adhesive. In the snowmobile world, the parts being bonded were critical load bearing parts of the chassis, so I *think* it can be done.
That said, Polaris said fuck it and went back to aluminum to aluminum because they realized nobody cares about the minimal weight savings of carbon fiber in this application.
I was told (friend of a friend kinda deal, so far from first hand experience) that anything not aerospace in regards to aluminium to carbon bonding will likely corrode in ~5 years. The guy, apparently an aerospace engineer, said he wouldn't ride a carbon bike or wheels, or a car or a racecar with a carbon tub with aluminium inserts if over 5 years old. You also have different temperature expansion coefficient problem with the two materials acting on the bonded joint.
On the other hand aluminium cars are bonded, not welded, partly because of the reasons that were outlined in the last few posts - energy intensity, warpage, surface finish, etc. That and parts tend to be extruded and/or cast (Tesla megacasting). Also, Lotus Elise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-TiFKr2yb0
As for Lord, they are part of the Parker conglomerate, the biggest motion control company in the world, a Fortune 500 company, etc. They are very legit
Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?!
Now lets speculate what Specialized are waiting for to be thoroughly tested and refined before they release the next Kenevo! 😜😁
Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?! ;) Now...
Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?!
Now lets speculate what Specialized are waiting for to be thoroughly tested and refined before they release the next Kenevo! 😜😁
Searched quick but couldn't find anything, got a link?? That sounds very interesting
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of...
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of casting ready aluminium alloys might be a bit on the lower side compared to 6000 and 7000 'aircraft grade' alloys, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary factor. That and the cost of investment.
Casting is very good for chunky parts. I'd say it'd be good for rocker links for example. Seatstays and chainstays I'm not so sure... Fork lowers are still tubes which gives them a lot of strength.
Also, yeah, flax fibres are widely used. Apparently damping properties of it are very very good.
I just read into flax fiber a little, unfortunately its not as strong under performance use in comparison to standard carbon fiber. Probably why we do not have it for bikes. Sad.
Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?! ;) Now...
Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?!
Now lets speculate what Specialized are waiting for to be thoroughly tested and refined before they release the next Kenevo! 😜😁
back in college some friends of mine were making steel hardtails with lugged carbon tube seat stays and top tubes. the guys that ran Draco if...
back in college some friends of mine were making steel hardtails with lugged carbon tube seat stays and top tubes. the guys that ran Draco if anyone remembers that from that PB era, i wanna say 06-08ish? they were very cool frames and i regret not being able to afford one at the time.
Damn that brings back some memories! I had a Draco, the only Tonka yellow one as far as I know. I would love to know where that frame is now
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of...
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of casting ready aluminium alloys might be a bit on the lower side compared to 6000 and 7000 'aircraft grade' alloys, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary factor. That and the cost of investment.
Casting is very good for chunky parts. I'd say it'd be good for rocker links for example. Seatstays and chainstays I'm not so sure... Fork lowers are still tubes which gives them a lot of strength.
Also, yeah, flax fibres are widely used. Apparently damping properties of it are very very good.
I just read into flax fiber a little, unfortunately its not as strong under performance use in comparison to standard carbon fiber. Probably why we do...
I just read into flax fiber a little, unfortunately its not as strong under performance use in comparison to standard carbon fiber. Probably why we do not have it for bikes. Sad.
I think it's also a bit harder to work with. And it's a bit oily so epoxy doesn't stick to it as well and tends to crack over time...
It is used in ski construction quite a bit though.
Properly great looking bike, but its too big for a lot of people, is super boost, and has no official mullet option, which rules out quite a few potential customers
Edit: been beaten to it regarding super boost, but its still very annoying that they seemed to have made one step forward and two steps back
That's a good looking bike but yeah, the reach numbers are up in Canyon territory and Superboost
That's a good looking bike but yeah, the reach numbers are up in Canyon territory and Superboost
The sizing is just different, the small is what would normally be classed as a medium and then it goes from there, the last iteration of the chilcotin was a 464mm reach on the medium and no small option available. a bit off topic but why does everyone hate on superboost? most hubs nowadays can go 148 and 157 just by changing out the hub spacers. Maybe it doesn't bother me because i have superboost on my enduro and dh bike so the rims are interchangale
All this talk about bamboo has me wondering, does anyone know what the strength of hemp composite fiber is? Id be pretty interested in buying from a company that is pretty much Atherton frames but the tubes are hemp fiber tubes. I know a company used it in body panels for a race car. But Id assume those only need to be a little strong but more so specific in shape than anything.
It's flax not hemp that has been used as a carbon replacement in race car body panels. See bcomp amplitex.
I work in manufacturing with tons of CNC and I can certainly see the lugged approach becoming much more common. If you are getting the lugs cast in aluminum instead of the 3D printing they can be very cheap after the initial outlay in molds (still tons cheaper than carbon molds). A little bit of post mold machining which is very easy and efficient to have setup. Carbon tubes are very cheap as well.
Now comparing it to welding or carbon here is one thing but when you talk about these processes being perfected overseas the cost comparison becomes less convincing but all equal being made in the same place it would be more efficient.
I thought there was some corrosion issue with aluminum to carbon. Atherton is doing all aluminum or carbon ti.
Not sure why the bike industry is so against castings… all these machined rear triangle parts could be cast cheaply. Could do sand castings off a machined piece to reduce tool cost?
Could also do magnesium castings for chainstay/seatstays- similar to a fork lower leg. Tooling for that is insane but part cost is very low.
FWIW, Polaris (and I think Ferrari) has done carbon to aluminum using LORD's adhesive. In the snowmobile world, the parts being bonded were critical load bearing parts of the chassis, so I *think* it can be done.
That said, Polaris said fuck it and went back to aluminum to aluminum because they realized nobody cares about the minimal weight savings of carbon fiber in this application.
If Brendog's instagram story is anything to go by, it seems the new ransom might be out tomorrow
I'd say sand casting will have a big issue with porosity. You'd need high pressure die casting to achieve compactness. Also, I'd say mechanical properties of casting ready aluminium alloys might be a bit on the lower side compared to 6000 and 7000 'aircraft grade' alloys, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary factor. That and the cost of investment.
Casting is very good for chunky parts. I'd say it'd be good for rocker links for example. Seatstays and chainstays I'm not so sure... Fork lowers are still tubes which gives them a lot of strength.
Also, yeah, flax fibres are widely used. Apparently damping properties of it are very very good.
Doesn’t need to be airtight 😂
Agree about the agriculture grade materials- we did some gravity cast aluminum bits- was close enough to 6061 to work.
Forks are die cast mag- as they do need to hold air/oil and get the good surface finish.
either way cool to see different manufacturing types coming, just seems everyone is focused on staying high end.
Experience from working in warranty at a carbon crank manufacturer years ago. The layer that forms on aluminum when air hits it prevents the bond from fully happening and over time they are prone to separating. Maybe I am not fully understanding what was going on, but that was essentially what happened each time cranks came in for warranty. Was extremely rare to see an actual carbon failure aside from impact on them.
Fezzari brings out Monoform bamboo manufacturing to replace the carbon on their road bikes.
I was told (friend of a friend kinda deal, so far from first hand experience) that anything not aerospace in regards to aluminium to carbon bonding will likely corrode in ~5 years. The guy, apparently an aerospace engineer, said he wouldn't ride a carbon bike or wheels, or a car or a racecar with a carbon tub with aluminium inserts if over 5 years old. You also have different temperature expansion coefficient problem with the two materials acting on the bonded joint.
On the other hand aluminium cars are bonded, not welded, partly because of the reasons that were outlined in the last few posts - energy intensity, warpage, surface finish, etc. That and parts tend to be extruded and/or cast (Tesla megacasting). Also, Lotus Elise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-TiFKr2yb0
As for Lord, they are part of the Parker conglomerate, the biggest motion control company in the world, a Fortune 500 company, etc. They are very legit
Hey rumor dwellers, anyone paid some attention to Brose’s concept bike? Which has a new motor with an integrated gearbox a la Pinion MGU?!?!
Now lets speculate what Specialized are waiting for to be thoroughly tested and refined before they release the next Kenevo! 😜😁
It appears Dario (Pinkbike tech editor) was testing the SRAM Maven brakes yesterday.. Maybe launch is finally around the corner.
Searched quick but couldn't find anything, got a link?? That sounds very interesting
I just read into flax fiber a little, unfortunately its not as strong under performance use in comparison to standard carbon fiber. Probably why we do not have it for bikes. Sad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlcuXjeiHjY
Also there’s an instagram account about it - “brose.ebike” or something.
Damn that brings back some memories! I had a Draco, the only Tonka yellow one as far as I know. I would love to know where that frame is now
I think it's also a bit harder to work with. And it's a bit oily so epoxy doesn't stick to it as well and tends to crack over time...
It is used in ski construction quite a bit though.
New Chilcotin
Medium is 483mm reach, thats a stretch....
I love this bike!
https://knollybikes.com/en-ca/products/chilcotin-170
Martin Soederstroem just leaked the new Ramson
https://www.instagram.com/p/C2ztsBLilkZ/?igsh=amJxdmt4cW80bWJ4
That's a good looking bike but yeah, the reach numbers are up in Canyon territory and Superboost
Properly great looking bike, but its too big for a lot of people, is super boost, and has no official mullet option, which rules out quite a few potential customers
Edit: been beaten to it regarding super boost, but its still very annoying that they seemed to have made one step forward and two steps back
More about the new Ransom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvzyDNuQeXY
My thought on Darkside as well, despite the single crown fork - just look at those huge rotors! 😁
The sizing is just different, the small is what would normally be classed as a medium and then it goes from there, the last iteration of the chilcotin was a 464mm reach on the medium and no small option available. a bit off topic but why does everyone hate on superboost? most hubs nowadays can go 148 and 157 just by changing out the hub spacers. Maybe it doesn't bother me because i have superboost on my enduro and dh bike so the rims are interchangale
All the details on the new Ransom: https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/scott-introduces-all-new-ra….
Looks like your mechanic will definitely hate you if you get this
It's a 6-bar! Was not expecting that.
damn that thing’s ugly!!! imagine paying 10+k just to look like your riding an e-bike.