In my experience it’s a lot less about where something is made and mostly about cost/demand. If bike companies were pushing Taiwan to meet quality control at the price point they wanted vs meeting quotas at the price point they wanted then Taiwan would adjust its processes. Simply the market wants a LOT of bikes at an “affordable” price. The good brands just warranty what they have to and the bad ones just pass the flops onto the customer.
if you buy an American made fender guitar vs a Mexican made fender guitar the quality control is very very similar on most models. Because the American fender chooses to produce a ton of guitars at an affordable price and has to make sacrifices to meet volume.
+ looks like a freakin e-bike with that massive bb & latch.
Its actually reverse psychology, make a bike to blur the line between normal bikes and ebikes, so when I was testing an eLumen and posted a picture to group chat, friends didnt even realize it was an ebike as it looked just like a normal scott bike. You can say thats pretty genius
Does anyone know if the DH22 will come as Enduro version soon? Front tire of Nukeproof Racer Kelan Grant....can hardly imagine they are racing the DH version. Pedals like wet clay...
Does anyone know if the DH22 will come as Enduro version soon? Front tire of Nukeproof Racer Kelan Grant....can hardly imagine they are racing the DH...
Does anyone know if the DH22 will come as Enduro version soon? Front tire of Nukeproof Racer Kelan Grant....can hardly imagine they are racing the DH version. Pedals like wet clay...
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to test these before they were released to the public, and he didn't mind pedalling around on them front and rear.
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to...
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to test these before they were released to the public, and he didn't mind pedalling around on them front and rear.
If sam hill said he didn't mind, it's probably because they are paying him ....
Does anyone know if the DH22 will come as Enduro version soon? Front tire of Nukeproof Racer Kelan Grant....can hardly imagine they are racing the DH...
Does anyone know if the DH22 will come as Enduro version soon? Front tire of Nukeproof Racer Kelan Grant....can hardly imagine they are racing the DH version. Pedals like wet clay...
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to...
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to test these before they were released to the public, and he didn't mind pedalling around on them front and rear.
Elliot Heap currently running it as a rear with Wild Enduro in the front so guess not.
I suspect the strategy of many of the big brands (this is especially egregious for Trek) is to fatten up the downtubes of their "natural" bikes...
I suspect the strategy of many of the big brands (this is especially egregious for Trek) is to fatten up the downtubes of their "natural" bikes so that their ebikes are harder to distinguish from the normal model.
I suspect you're right, but that's a shame from a structural standpoint. Oversized tubes need to have thin walls to stay reasonably light, which means they're...
I suspect you're right, but that's a shame from a structural standpoint. Oversized tubes need to have thin walls to stay reasonably light, which means they're more vulnerable to things like rock strikes and impacts, even if they're technically strong enough to handle the loads of normal riding. I was a huge fan of the gen.1 carbon V10 because the tubes were small in diamter and the walls were super thick, so the front triangle was basically invincible. Plus a smaller diameter tube cross-section is going to have more engineered flex in it (or "compliance" in marketing speak), which I think most companies are looking for anyway. I wonder if there's a different and more reasonable explanation for the inflatable downtubes we're seeing or if it really is a tinfoil hat ebike conspiracy.
I don't think its to disguise e-bikes, Scott in particular just love having ultra light bikes, look at the Spark (obviously needs to be ultra light)...
I don't think its to disguise e-bikes, Scott in particular just love having ultra light bikes, look at the Spark (obviously needs to be ultra light) their design is just carrying over, large tubes = light.
As AndehM also points out, it enables downtube storage.
The issue is rock strikes, and with thin walls you get a single error during layup and its an instant cracked frame. It would tolerable if the frames were made in the US or Europe, where quality control is much higher, but we all know the amount of duds being produced in Asia, it just makes it more likely customers will get unlucky and crack yet another frame.
You believe QC is better in the US than it is in Asia?
Big downtubes allow storage too. That's far more plausible to me than the tinfoil hat ebike conspiracy.
Absolutely. The downtube on my new 5010 is prob bigger than on my EXe. Pretty hard to imagine SC engaging in the silliness people are theorizing. The execution of the in frame storage is magnificent, btw. First frame with that feature and it’s pretty awesome.
Absolutely. The downtube on my new 5010 is prob bigger than on my EXe. Pretty hard to imagine SC engaging in the silliness people are theorizing...
Absolutely. The downtube on my new 5010 is prob bigger than on my EXe. Pretty hard to imagine SC engaging in the silliness people are theorizing. The execution of the in frame storage is magnificent, btw. First frame with that feature and it’s pretty awesome.
Both of these can be true at the same time, they aren't mutually exclusive concepts. Making the downtube larger for storage also makes the pedal bike look more similar to an e-bike, creating less of a visual difference between the two. It's a win-win for the bike brand.
Does anyone know if the DH22 will come as Enduro version soon? Front tire of Nukeproof Racer Kelan Grant....can hardly imagine they are racing the DH...
Does anyone know if the DH22 will come as Enduro version soon? Front tire of Nukeproof Racer Kelan Grant....can hardly imagine they are racing the DH version. Pedals like wet clay...
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to...
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to test these before they were released to the public, and he didn't mind pedalling around on them front and rear.
Seems to me you are not Sam Hill and you haven't pedaled those tires (the dh version with wire bead). Also for front tires pedaling performance matters, especially for racers. And their fitness level is probably way above ours...
Absolutely. The downtube on my new 5010 is prob bigger than on my EXe. Pretty hard to imagine SC engaging in the silliness people are theorizing...
Absolutely. The downtube on my new 5010 is prob bigger than on my EXe. Pretty hard to imagine SC engaging in the silliness people are theorizing. The execution of the in frame storage is magnificent, btw. First frame with that feature and it’s pretty awesome.
You mean it's hard to imagine that the brand that just released an e-hybrid marketed towards urban commuters is trying to make e-bikes seem more ubiquitous and stand out less?
I think that's pretty easy to imagine. Don't let their 'mountain bike core' image fool you.
You mean it's hard to imagine that the brand that just released an e-hybrid marketed towards urban commuters is trying to make e-bikes seem more ubiquitous...
You mean it's hard to imagine that the brand that just released an e-hybrid marketed towards urban commuters is trying to make e-bikes seem more ubiquitous and stand out less?
I think that's pretty easy to imagine. Don't let their 'mountain bike core' image fool you.
From what I am seeing ebikes are becoming more of the rule than the exception on the trails. I would venture that companies will very soon be having strat meetings on how to distinguish and market non-ebikes.
on the big down tube discussion it could also be easier to manufacture and if you can utilize a similar mold for you e-bike it probably takes less design resources between frames.
Does anyone know if the DH22 will come as Enduro version soon? Front tire of Nukeproof Racer Kelan Grant....can hardly imagine they are racing the DH...
Does anyone know if the DH22 will come as Enduro version soon? Front tire of Nukeproof Racer Kelan Grant....can hardly imagine they are racing the DH version. Pedals like wet clay...
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to...
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to test these before they were released to the public, and he didn't mind pedalling around on them front and rear.
Seems to me you are not Sam Hill and you haven't pedaled those tires (the dh version with wire bead). Also for front tires pedaling performance...
Seems to me you are not Sam Hill and you haven't pedaled those tires (the dh version with wire bead). Also for front tires pedaling performance matters, especially for racers. And their fitness level is probably way above ours...
Dude, first of all, you posted picture of pro rider, who is A) Sam hill's teammate B ) in condition good enough to pedal on that tire with cushcore while having a flat. Second of all, get a clue. I'm not the one comparing myself to pro racers nor am I modeling my components choice after them. You obviously are and are making very silly conclusions as a result. If racing bikes was your job, I' m very sure you would pedal around the most sticky and durable tire you can find and adjust your training to allow that not the other way round.
True, hence no need for 1500g super soft tires for 99% of riding population. I ride semislick year around for anything that I have to pedal to get up a hill, grippy rear tire is bikepark only. Front tire changes very little for uphills or flatter trails.
But Guerrilla Gravity is closing up shop.....no more bikes
Sad to hear confirmation of this. I think it was the Team Rumors thread, but I said that when the new of Yohann leaving GG came out, that spelled the end of the company, or near end. Since they ended contract mid-year. Bummer since they had some cool tech with their carbon, albeit heavy.
Sad to hear confirmation of this. I think it was the Team Rumors thread, but I said that when the new of Yohann leaving GG came...
Sad to hear confirmation of this. I think it was the Team Rumors thread, but I said that when the new of Yohann leaving GG came out, that spelled the end of the company, or near end. Since they ended contract mid-year. Bummer since they had some cool tech with their carbon, albeit heavy.
I just looked thru the team rumors thread and I didn't see any mention. Say it ain't so!
Sad to hear confirmation of this. I think it was the Team Rumors thread, but I said that when the new of Yohann leaving GG came...
Sad to hear confirmation of this. I think it was the Team Rumors thread, but I said that when the new of Yohann leaving GG came out, that spelled the end of the company, or near end. Since they ended contract mid-year. Bummer since they had some cool tech with their carbon, albeit heavy.
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to...
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to test these before they were released to the public, and he didn't mind pedalling around on them front and rear.
Seems to me you are not Sam Hill and you haven't pedaled those tires (the dh version with wire bead). Also for front tires pedaling performance...
Seems to me you are not Sam Hill and you haven't pedaled those tires (the dh version with wire bead). Also for front tires pedaling performance matters, especially for racers. And their fitness level is probably way above ours...
Dude, first of all, you posted picture of pro rider, who is A) Sam hill's teammate B ) in condition good enough to pedal on that...
Dude, first of all, you posted picture of pro rider, who is A) Sam hill's teammate B ) in condition good enough to pedal on that tire with cushcore while having a flat. Second of all, get a clue. I'm not the one comparing myself to pro racers nor am I modeling my components choice after them. You obviously are and are making very silly conclusions as a result. If racing bikes was your job, I' m very sure you would pedal around the most sticky and durable tire you can find and adjust your training to allow that not the other way round.
Don't be offended mate. Yeah, probably because racing is not my job I was hoping they would come around with a lighter version of it, you guessed that almost right. Because I don't want to pedal 1500g tires with wire bead. There is a difference between the DH22 (which profile we see more or less on Kelan Grants bike) in DH casing and the wild Enduro racing line casing, which the nukeproof team has used mostly as I am aware (not the DH casing!). Until now (?) a tire with this profile and a lighter casing hasn't existed so far. So the lower weight with kind of the same grip would be interesting.
The one that spoke about Sam Hill being able to pedal those without problems was you (which doesn't help us mere mortals at all, as we probably can't on big days).
I always ran a 3C Maxx Terra in the front and a dual compound in the rear and managed it, but I'm coming around to softer compounds to deal with moist and wet conditions around here. Limestone is a bitch when it's wet, there's NO grip. So much so that after coming from Finale Ligure my confidence was completely shaken when there was no grip at home, then that was compounded by an Aosta trip (granite) where everything you did made the bike react the way you wanted it because of all the grip. Now every time there are a few drops of rain I'm back to feeling like I'm a giraffe on ice.
I don't see a need for a DH casing (running EXO casings front and back and an insert in the rear I flat once every one or two years) but the softer rubber is something I could get behind.
I always ran a 3C Maxx Terra in the front and a dual compound in the rear and managed it, but I'm coming around to softer...
I always ran a 3C Maxx Terra in the front and a dual compound in the rear and managed it, but I'm coming around to softer compounds to deal with moist and wet conditions around here. Limestone is a bitch when it's wet, there's NO grip. So much so that after coming from Finale Ligure my confidence was completely shaken when there was no grip at home, then that was compounded by an Aosta trip (granite) where everything you did made the bike react the way you wanted it because of all the grip. Now every time there are a few drops of rain I'm back to feeling like I'm a giraffe on ice.
I don't see a need for a DH casing (running EXO casings front and back and an insert in the rear I flat once every one or two years) but the softer rubber is something I could get behind.
I get it, and I really do. I'm riding local trails on lightest casing t9 butcher in the front and middle weight casing e13 SS in the rear no matter the conditions, if it's slippery at least the rear slides first and not the other way around. But even on my bikepark set of wheels I don't see any reason to ride anything even remotely close to the dh22 in the rear, maybe if I was only riding wc dh tracks mostly in the wet and never even thought about riding jump lines or simply any non black routes I could see a hint of benefit to it. Would I like to try 1200g dh22 for a front tire, sure, why not, but I would also guess part of the reason why that tire in it's porky variant gets great reviews is that heavy casing doing good job at damping a lot of chatter, take 300g of rubber from it and it will be gone (or at least noticeably reduced). I wonder how hard would it be for them to use existing bikepark casing as a base for said 1200g tire...
In my experience it’s a lot less about where something is made and mostly about cost/demand. If bike companies were pushing Taiwan to meet quality control at the price point they wanted vs meeting quotas at the price point they wanted then Taiwan would adjust its processes. Simply the market wants a LOT of bikes at an “affordable” price. The good brands just warranty what they have to and the bad ones just pass the flops onto the customer.
if you buy an American made fender guitar vs a Mexican made fender guitar the quality control is very very similar on most models. Because the American fender chooses to produce a ton of guitars at an affordable price and has to make sacrifices to meet volume.
Its actually reverse psychology, make a bike to blur the line between normal bikes and ebikes, so when I was testing an eLumen and posted a picture to group chat, friends didnt even realize it was an ebike as it looked just like a normal scott bike. You can say thats pretty genius
Does anyone know if the DH22 will come as Enduro version soon? Front tire of Nukeproof Racer Kelan Grant....can hardly imagine they are racing the DH version. Pedals like wet clay...
What I would like to see is an enduro casing Michelin but with the racing line rubber...
Anyone has any info about the Marin DH/FR proto ? I want a bikeparks bike and this one could be great
And without the weight of the DH.
Therein lies the point.
It s a front tire, so how it pedals is not that relevant, but if I remember, Sam hill was one of the first racers to test these before they were released to the public, and he didn't mind pedalling around on them front and rear.
Not everybody is Sam Hill...
If sam hill said he didn't mind, it's probably because they are paying him ....
Elliot Heap currently running it as a rear with Wild Enduro in the front so guess not.
You believe QC is better in the US than it is in Asia?
sheesh
Absolutely. The downtube on my new 5010 is prob bigger than on my EXe. Pretty hard to imagine SC engaging in the silliness people are theorizing. The execution of the in frame storage is magnificent, btw. First frame with that feature and it’s pretty awesome.
Both of these can be true at the same time, they aren't mutually exclusive concepts. Making the downtube larger for storage also makes the pedal bike look more similar to an e-bike, creating less of a visual difference between the two. It's a win-win for the bike brand.
Seems to me you are not Sam Hill and you haven't pedaled those tires (the dh version with wire bead). Also for front tires pedaling performance matters, especially for racers. And their fitness level is probably way above ours...
You mean it's hard to imagine that the brand that just released an e-hybrid marketed towards urban commuters is trying to make e-bikes seem more ubiquitous and stand out less?
I think that's pretty easy to imagine. Don't let their 'mountain bike core' image fool you.
From what I am seeing ebikes are becoming more of the rule than the exception on the trails. I would venture that companies will very soon be having strat meetings on how to distinguish and market non-ebikes.
Not really innovation....
But Guerrilla Gravity is closing up shop.....no more bikes
That sucks for GG
on the big down tube discussion it could also be easier to manufacture and if you can utilize a similar mold for you e-bike it probably takes less design resources between frames.
Where are you getting that from? That's very disappointing to hear.
Dude, first of all, you posted picture of pro rider, who is A) Sam hill's teammate B ) in condition good enough to pedal on that tire with cushcore while having a flat. Second of all, get a clue. I'm not the one comparing myself to pro racers nor am I modeling my components choice after them. You obviously are and are making very silly conclusions as a result. If racing bikes was your job, I' m very sure you would pedal around the most sticky and durable tire you can find and adjust your training to allow that not the other way round.
I've heard the same thing from some guys in Squamish that ride with Yoann.
Wait a second...You're telling me that Scott isn't an e-bike? I guess that Tin-foil hat marketing strategy worked on me...
True, hence no need for 1500g super soft tires for 99% of riding population. I ride semislick year around for anything that I have to pedal to get up a hill, grippy rear tire is bikepark only. Front tire changes very little for uphills or flatter trails.
Sad to hear confirmation of this. I think it was the Team Rumors thread, but I said that when the new of Yohann leaving GG came out, that spelled the end of the company, or near end. Since they ended contract mid-year. Bummer since they had some cool tech with their carbon, albeit heavy.
I just looked thru the team rumors thread and I didn't see any mention. Say it ain't so!
I don't want to say anything w/o the official press release of it, but, Matt Giaraffa posted a "farewell" on his Linkedin. So there is that.
Don't be offended mate. Yeah, probably because racing is not my job I was hoping they would come around with a lighter version of it, you guessed that almost right. Because I don't want to pedal 1500g tires with wire bead. There is a difference between the DH22 (which profile we see more or less on Kelan Grants bike) in DH casing and the wild Enduro racing line casing, which the nukeproof team has used mostly as I am aware (not the DH casing!). Until now (?) a tire with this profile and a lighter casing hasn't existed so far. So the lower weight with kind of the same grip would be interesting.
The one that spoke about Sam Hill being able to pedal those without problems was you (which doesn't help us mere mortals at all, as we probably can't on big days).
I always ran a 3C Maxx Terra in the front and a dual compound in the rear and managed it, but I'm coming around to softer compounds to deal with moist and wet conditions around here. Limestone is a bitch when it's wet, there's NO grip. So much so that after coming from Finale Ligure my confidence was completely shaken when there was no grip at home, then that was compounded by an Aosta trip (granite) where everything you did made the bike react the way you wanted it because of all the grip. Now every time there are a few drops of rain I'm back to feeling like I'm a giraffe on ice.
I don't see a need for a DH casing (running EXO casings front and back and an insert in the rear I flat once every one or two years) but the softer rubber is something I could get behind.
I get it, and I really do. I'm riding local trails on lightest casing t9 butcher in the front and middle weight casing e13 SS in the rear no matter the conditions, if it's slippery at least the rear slides first and not the other way around. But even on my bikepark set of wheels I don't see any reason to ride anything even remotely close to the dh22 in the rear, maybe if I was only riding wc dh tracks mostly in the wet and never even thought about riding jump lines or simply any non black routes I could see a hint of benefit to it. Would I like to try 1200g dh22 for a front tire, sure, why not, but I would also guess part of the reason why that tire in it's porky variant gets great reviews is that heavy casing doing good job at damping a lot of chatter, take 300g of rubber from it and it will be gone (or at least noticeably reduced). I wonder how hard would it be for them to use existing bikepark casing as a base for said 1200g tire...