MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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8/1/2023 3:50pm Edited Date/Time 8/1/2023 3:52pm
sspomer wrote:

could be worse. santa cruz gen 2 super 8 with riders running 800, 900 and even 1000 pounds springs Wink

https://products.mtbr.com/product/older-categories-bikes/2002-full-susp…

older bikes often had very high spring rates, then we learnt that having spring and damper forces closer together is much better performance wise

The real problem with 55mm stroke shocks on enduro bikes is the lack of damping force, ive got a GT Force with a 55mm shock and its the one problem with it, spring force is fine. 

2
boozed
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8/1/2023 5:07pm

Well we can all calm down because measuring off that photo by scaling from the wheel rims indicates that it's a 205mm shock.

12
8/1/2023 7:19pm
thegromit wrote:
Has anyone graphed the kinematics of the supreme v5? I thought I had seen them on this thread but went back and couldn't find it. I...

Has anyone graphed the kinematics of the supreme v5? I thought I had seen them on this thread but went back and couldn't find it.

I rode the last generation this weekend and was blown away. I just wanted to compare the two.

The V4 and V5 are completely different bikes. The V5 is very close to the 23 Trek session with axle path. Goes back 10mm then forward...

The V4 and V5 are completely different bikes. The V5 is very close to the 23 Trek session with axle path. Goes back 10mm then forward to 0. The V5 is 40-45% progressive, the V4 was only like 20-25%.

I can’t find all the files, I found the axle path. There’s a few mock ups on Linkage Design program. 

IMG 9028

 

thegromit wrote:
I was curious what the anti rise is, it seemed like the old design had quite a bit compared to the new design and that is...

I was curious what the anti rise is, it seemed like the old design had quite a bit compared to the new design and that is what the main flaw was. I honestly didn't think it was all that bad under braking. That was the first bike I had ridden with anti squat number in the 150-170 range, I didn't know this at the time but when I would sprint or pedal I was surprised at how well it accelerated. 

I’ve heard the anti rise is about 90% at sag then goes lower, deeper in the travel. I can not confirm but it’s what I heard from someone who worked with Commencal. It does pedal better than the Trek Session, I can confirm that. And it’s a little less active under braking than the session.  

Onawalk
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8/1/2023 8:07pm
sspomer wrote:

could be worse. santa cruz gen 2 super 8 with riders running 800, 900 and even 1000 pounds springs Wink

https://products.mtbr.com/product/older-categories-bikes/2002-full-susp…

Deez kids jus don’t kno. pretty sure my 2001 RM7 came stock with a 900 pound spring. 2.25 stroke Vanilla RC for 7 inches of travel. 

Deez kids jus don’t kno.

pretty sure my 2001 RM7 came stock with a 900 pound spring. 2.25 stroke Vanilla RC for 7 inches of travel. Cool

Can confirm,

currently looking for a 1000lb spring for my RM-7 restoration project!

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metadave
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8/1/2023 9:11pm
dolface wrote:

Moving to a vertical shock orientation...?

probably high pivot with an idler, lower mounted shock? Rocky Mountain rarely comes out with "crazy" or radical, groundbreaking stuff so I'm curious haha

dolface wrote:

They also use the same frame for the Altitude and Instinct, curious to see if they continue w/ that. 

They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what I expected and a huge departure from the current model and the rest of the line as a whole.

No idea on the embargo date yet. 

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Onawalk
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8/1/2023 9:28pm

probably high pivot with an idler, lower mounted shock? Rocky Mountain rarely comes out with "crazy" or radical, groundbreaking stuff so I'm curious haha

dolface wrote:

They also use the same frame for the Altitude and Instinct, curious to see if they continue w/ that. 

metadave wrote:
They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what...

They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what I expected and a huge departure from the current model and the rest of the line as a whole.

No idea on the embargo date yet. 

The comment surprised me at first, so I went and took, looks way more than close.

Its definitively conceivable, with a slightly different link, and stroke shock, they could be the same frame.  Even the geo chart is pretty close honestly.

Weights are real similar as well....

2
8/1/2023 11:45pm Edited Date/Time 8/1/2023 11:48pm
dolface wrote:

They also use the same frame for the Altitude and Instinct, curious to see if they continue w/ that. 

metadave wrote:
They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what...

They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what I expected and a huge departure from the current model and the rest of the line as a whole.

No idea on the embargo date yet. 

Onawalk wrote:
The comment surprised me at first, so I went and took, looks way more than close. Its definitively conceivable, with a slightly different link, and stroke...

The comment surprised me at first, so I went and took, looks way more than close.

Its definitively conceivable, with a slightly different link, and stroke shock, they could be the same frame.  Even the geo chart is pretty close honestly.

Weights are real similar as well....

Isn’t he refering to the new, unreleased model that he can’t talk about? May be RM decided to separate the 2 models further apart for the new gen. Smile

My guess is they’re going HP for the enduro model and non-HP for the trail/AM model, kinda like Norco. More and more HP enduro bikes show up, with not so extreme high pivots, so may be that’s the golden point. I keep wondering what the HP Slash will be like detail-wise, cause i’m getting a lot of Chainsaw vibes from its pics till now. 

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krabo83
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8/2/2023 2:55am

underwhelming IMO

IMG 9075

3
8/2/2023 3:33am

So what’s so state-of-the-art that they kept it under wraps for so much time? 
 

5
8/2/2023 3:40am

So what’s so state-of-the-art that they kept it under wraps for so much time? 
 

I think it is probably more a case of hiding it while they go through multiple iterations of the design before they reach a point where they are happy to release it and show the public? And while it may not look like a significant change to the average person, kinematics wise, the changes they have done to the linkages can make a significant difference to the ride feel.

8/2/2023 3:54am

IMG 7967

11
8/2/2023 4:10am

These kind of covers are widespread now and they are eye-catching, and I think that's what their purpose is. Any thoughts on the shock being mounted on the rear triangle and side-loads? 

4
8/2/2023 4:35am

So what’s so state-of-the-art that they kept it under wraps for so much time? 
 

According to the seatstay, it's still a ''wrap''...

 

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C-LION
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8/2/2023 5:28am

Dear community, any info on when the new Trek Slash will be released? It looked very production-ready to me in the latest spy shots…

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Onawalk
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8/2/2023 6:32am
metadave wrote:
They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what...

They are not using the same frame, it's not even close. I don't think it's ground breaking, others are doing it, but it's certainly not what I expected and a huge departure from the current model and the rest of the line as a whole.

No idea on the embargo date yet. 

Onawalk wrote:
The comment surprised me at first, so I went and took, looks way more than close. Its definitively conceivable, with a slightly different link, and stroke...

The comment surprised me at first, so I went and took, looks way more than close.

Its definitively conceivable, with a slightly different link, and stroke shock, they could be the same frame.  Even the geo chart is pretty close honestly.

Weights are real similar as well....

Isn’t he refering to the new, unreleased model that he can’t talk about? May be RM decided to separate the 2 models further apart for the...

Isn’t he refering to the new, unreleased model that he can’t talk about? May be RM decided to separate the 2 models further apart for the new gen. Smile

My guess is they’re going HP for the enduro model and non-HP for the trail/AM model, kinda like Norco. More and more HP enduro bikes show up, with not so extreme high pivots, so may be that’s the golden point. I keep wondering what the HP Slash will be like detail-wise, cause i’m getting a lot of Chainsaw vibes from its pics till now. 

It’s all speculation really, so who knows.

the comment on the Altitude and Instinct being the same frame I figured was referencing the current models, and I’ll be damned if I could pick out any real differences other than link and rear shock.

Norcos bikes are a strange one to me, that Range is a beast, and I think racers are still leaning towards the Sight as the race bike.  The new carbon Fluid makes me think the new Optic is a HP, idler affair, similar to the V2 Druid, and I’m stoked to see it!

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sspomer
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8/2/2023 8:57am

pit bits from world champs. has mondraker in there

 

 

8/2/2023 10:07am
krabo83 wrote:
underwhelming IMO

underwhelming IMO

IMG 9075

As seen in pit bits video.

Mondraker now mounts to rear triangle, not lower link. It has adjustable rear triangle plates for stiffness and bolt in BB bracket. Even though it looks like the old frame, I bet it ride’s completely different!

IMG 1892IMG 1896.jpeg?VersionId=0J 4Qjr11yIMG 1897.jpeg?VersionId=6CiVkY8MJ8MDobvzbDGL6PJMIDrfZ

10
8/2/2023 1:58pm
krabo83 wrote:
underwhelming IMO

underwhelming IMO

IMG 9075

As seen in pit bits video. Mondraker now mounts to rear triangle, not lower link. It has adjustable rear triangle plates for stiffness and bolt in...

As seen in pit bits video.

Mondraker now mounts to rear triangle, not lower link. It has adjustable rear triangle plates for stiffness and bolt in BB bracket. Even though it looks like the old frame, I bet it ride’s completely different!

IMG 1892IMG 1896.jpeg?VersionId=0J 4Qjr11yIMG 1897.jpeg?VersionId=6CiVkY8MJ8MDobvzbDGL6PJMIDrfZ

Bolt on BB is a great way to manipulate your Front/Rear center ratio while not changing much else and really isolate the effect of said ratio and basically CS length. Great for a test mule but could also be nice to see on a commercially available bike.

1
Kadester
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8/2/2023 2:50pm

IMG 2695
new fox 32??

7
TayRob
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8/2/2023 3:12pm
Kadester wrote:
new fox 32??

IMG 2695
new fox 32??

Sure does look like it. They obviously learned something and drew a lot of inspiration from their gravel fork.

1
One Ghost
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8/2/2023 3:43pm
sspomer wrote:
worlds pit bits 1 - https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/pit-bits-1-world-champs-2023/frameworks-nekos-steel-and-carbon-build

I've done this. Expando foam in the frame to make is dead silent. Just use sparingly as too much will actually crack a frame. 

TEAMROBOT
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8/2/2023 4:20pm
Kadester wrote:
new fox 32??

IMG 2695
new fox 32??

TayRob wrote:

Sure does look like it. They obviously learned something and drew a lot of inspiration from their gravel fork.

lol they obviously drew a lot of inspiration from Manitou!

20
TayRob
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8/2/2023 4:35pm
Kadester wrote:
new fox 32??

IMG 2695
new fox 32??

TayRob wrote:

Sure does look like it. They obviously learned something and drew a lot of inspiration from their gravel fork.

TEAMROBOT wrote:

lol they obviously drew a lot of inspiration from Manitou!

Laughing At least they drew it from there and not those miserable dual arch Magura forks.

3
1
8/2/2023 4:42pm
krabo83 wrote:
underwhelming IMO

underwhelming IMO

IMG 9075

As seen in pit bits video. Mondraker now mounts to rear triangle, not lower link. It has adjustable rear triangle plates for stiffness and bolt in...

As seen in pit bits video.

Mondraker now mounts to rear triangle, not lower link. It has adjustable rear triangle plates for stiffness and bolt in BB bracket. Even though it looks like the old frame, I bet it ride’s completely different!

IMG 1892IMG 1896.jpeg?VersionId=0J 4Qjr11yIMG 1897.jpeg?VersionId=6CiVkY8MJ8MDobvzbDGL6PJMIDrfZ

Bolt on BB is a great way to manipulate your Front/Rear center ratio while not changing much else and really isolate the effect of said ratio...

Bolt on BB is a great way to manipulate your Front/Rear center ratio while not changing much else and really isolate the effect of said ratio and basically CS length. Great for a test mule but could also be nice to see on a commercially available bike.

unfortunately its very unlikely to release a bike with that, its simply way too heavy and too costly to manufacture. The best we could hope for is an oversized BB fitted with eccentric cups that can be used to adjust, much simply, lighter and cheaper at mass production

1
8/2/2023 6:19pm
As seen in pit bits video. Mondraker now mounts to rear triangle, not lower link. It has adjustable rear triangle plates for stiffness and bolt in...

As seen in pit bits video.

Mondraker now mounts to rear triangle, not lower link. It has adjustable rear triangle plates for stiffness and bolt in BB bracket. Even though it looks like the old frame, I bet it ride’s completely different!

IMG 1892IMG 1896.jpeg?VersionId=0J 4Qjr11yIMG 1897.jpeg?VersionId=6CiVkY8MJ8MDobvzbDGL6PJMIDrfZ

Bolt on BB is a great way to manipulate your Front/Rear center ratio while not changing much else and really isolate the effect of said ratio...

Bolt on BB is a great way to manipulate your Front/Rear center ratio while not changing much else and really isolate the effect of said ratio and basically CS length. Great for a test mule but could also be nice to see on a commercially available bike.

unfortunately its very unlikely to release a bike with that, its simply way too heavy and too costly to manufacture. The best we could hope for...

unfortunately its very unlikely to release a bike with that, its simply way too heavy and too costly to manufacture. The best we could hope for is an oversized BB fitted with eccentric cups that can be used to adjust, much simply, lighter and cheaper at mass production

That would be really fun to play with. Bb cups, chainstay flip chip for short and long, headset adjustable cups.  
 

But what % of buyers would actually try different settings?

3
8/2/2023 6:33pm
Bolt on BB is a great way to manipulate your Front/Rear center ratio while not changing much else and really isolate the effect of said ratio...

Bolt on BB is a great way to manipulate your Front/Rear center ratio while not changing much else and really isolate the effect of said ratio and basically CS length. Great for a test mule but could also be nice to see on a commercially available bike.

unfortunately its very unlikely to release a bike with that, its simply way too heavy and too costly to manufacture. The best we could hope for...

unfortunately its very unlikely to release a bike with that, its simply way too heavy and too costly to manufacture. The best we could hope for is an oversized BB fitted with eccentric cups that can be used to adjust, much simply, lighter and cheaper at mass production

That would be really fun to play with. Bb cups, chainstay flip chip for short and long, headset adjustable cups.     But what % of...

That would be really fun to play with. Bb cups, chainstay flip chip for short and long, headset adjustable cups.  
 

But what % of buyers would actually try different settings?

At the very least you can try an eccentric bottom bracket like they’re using on the specialized prototype dh bike. There are BSA/24mm spindle ones that provided +-3mm of chainstay/reach. Velo orange makes one. 

8/2/2023 10:32pm
unfortunately its very unlikely to release a bike with that, its simply way too heavy and too costly to manufacture. The best we could hope for...

unfortunately its very unlikely to release a bike with that, its simply way too heavy and too costly to manufacture. The best we could hope for is an oversized BB fitted with eccentric cups that can be used to adjust, much simply, lighter and cheaper at mass production

That would be really fun to play with. Bb cups, chainstay flip chip for short and long, headset adjustable cups.     But what % of...

That would be really fun to play with. Bb cups, chainstay flip chip for short and long, headset adjustable cups.  
 

But what % of buyers would actually try different settings?

At the very least you can try an eccentric bottom bracket like they’re using on the specialized prototype dh bike. There are BSA/24mm spindle ones that...

At the very least you can try an eccentric bottom bracket like they’re using on the specialized prototype dh bike. There are BSA/24mm spindle ones that provided +-3mm of chainstay/reach. Velo orange makes one. 

Yeah quite a few prototype frames use eccentric BB cups and a smaller spindle during test to fine tune, in fact Bruni ran one on the production Demo for a couple years.

I don't imagine anyone will make a bike with an oversize BB and press in eccentric cups that you can then mount standard BBs into anytime soon, but one can dream. 

Plus DH bikes can already tune fore/aft balance by extending the fork stanchions out and rear centre flip chips I guess.

1
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