MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
4/30/2023 6:29am

IMG 0565.png?VersionId=

 New GX cranks on Ben Cathros story - being built up onto Santa Cruz’s going for sale, meaning we can’t be far off the GX launch 

13
nskerb
Posts
335
Joined
3/3/2020
Location
Kelso, WA US
4/30/2023 8:01am

I really hope a cable actuated GX gets made. 

13
18LifeToGo
Posts
44
Joined
3/3/2023
Location
Sacremento, CA US
4/30/2023 9:31am
jakeowens wrote:
 New GX cranks on Ben Cathros story - being built up onto Santa Cruz’s going for sale, meaning we can’t be far off the GX launch 

IMG 0565.png?VersionId=

 New GX cranks on Ben Cathros story - being built up onto Santa Cruz’s going for sale, meaning we can’t be far off the GX launch 

So XO's without the holes and a matte silver color, probably 600 - 650g's with ring. Main issue with GX is the length coming in at 170 or 175. Wonder if they were smart enough to offer shorter sizes? Probably not anything shorter than 165.  

3
4/30/2023 10:03am Edited Date/Time 4/30/2023 10:09am
nskerb wrote:

I really hope a cable actuated GX gets made. 

I wish it would, but it looks unlikely. The frame is a normal bike without an engine, but there is a big sticker, that says UN3481, with is a shipping regulation for dangerous goods. So this build will end up with at least one Li-Ion Battery on it. Maybe it's just a reverb axs dropper post, but my guess is GX Transmission AXS. The whole direct mount standard, without limit screws etc. is build around the wireless derailleur. Therefore I don't see a cable accurated version coming any time soon.

9
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
4/30/2023 11:13am

That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No cable actuation would mean a big chunk of the market would be left to Shimano, TRP, Box, upcoming Chinese manufacturers?

1
sethimus
Posts
870
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
4/30/2023 11:46am
Primoz wrote:
That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No...

That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No cable actuation would mean a big chunk of the market would be left to Shimano, TRP, Box, upcoming Chinese manufacturers?

there are no cheap 12x road groups either

3
4/30/2023 12:01pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2023 12:13pm
Primoz wrote:
That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No...

That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No cable actuation would mean a big chunk of the market would be left to Shimano, TRP, Box, upcoming Chinese manufacturers?

I don't think sram will be able to ignore the mass market, most of the money is made there. But I don't see all of the features of transmission trickle down to nx or sx. I don't think the bike manufacturers are willing to change all their bikes to UDH and therefore 12mm through axel. If you compare what shimano did with linkglide, offering really good shift performance and durability at the cost of weight. I think sram can still improve their lower priced groupsets alot without going "full transmission", by offering cable operated shifting,  only with improvements in chain /cassette design and better quality control. I don't think lower tier bikes will profit much from direct mount dérailleurs, which is the main selling point of transmission at the moment. I own a bike with the first generation gx Eagle and from day one, I was unable to make all gears work perfectly due to poor quality. So I doubt that a direct mount dérailleur would fix this issue.

4
4/30/2023 1:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2023 1:48pm

Seems like the production Meta V5 will use headset routing (from Camille Balanche's Instagram):

Screenshot 20230430 134344 Instagram.jpg?VersionId=ZVxVLyRyyIN5

Screenshot 20230430 134814 Instagram

 

1
1
dolface
Posts
1656
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
4/30/2023 2:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2023 2:10pm

Another shot of the Meta V5 w/ headset routing:

Edit: sniped by @TheShortestCharles Smile

Screenshot 2023-04-30 at 1.45.45 PM

 

2
1
4/30/2023 4:09pm

Personally don’t think SRAM’s current cable actuated group sets really need an update.  Would much rather have them invest in reducing prices for it than a 1 percent increase in shift quality.

14
grahamanator
Posts
4
Joined
12/27/2022
Location
Dartmouth, NS CA
4/30/2023 4:10pm
Primoz wrote:
That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No...

That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No cable actuation would mean a big chunk of the market would be left to Shimano, TRP, Box, upcoming Chinese manufacturers?

I am pretty sure we aren’t far off the AXS stuff actually being cheaper to manufacture than the legacy stuff. I am sure the shifter is already without needing any of the small mechanical parts. It’s not a complicated system and the components wouldn’t be expensive if the trickle down goes right. 

5
xy9ine
Posts
28
Joined
5/1/2019
Location
ZW
4/30/2023 9:36pm

looks like a dt cable port on weitien ho's new meta, so there's still hope? *crosses digits*

https://www.instagram.com/p/CroC9Yfrskh/

2
4/30/2023 11:56pm
Personally don’t think SRAM’s current cable actuated group sets really need an update.  Would much rather have them invest in reducing prices for it than a...

Personally don’t think SRAM’s current cable actuated group sets really need an update.  Would much rather have them invest in reducing prices for it than a 1 percent increase in shift quality.

Maybe not the top end, but SX/NX Eagle really aren't remotely competitive with even Deore, much less SLX. As far as I know people generally only go for those if they don't have a HG+ hub body or if they prefer the Sram 'feel'. GX could at least use a refresh; I haven't heard of anything particularly 'wrong' with it but it's also been essentially the same for over five years.

5
Jimmyboy401
Posts
3
Joined
4/30/2023
Location
Wellington NZ
5/1/2023 12:40am

Soooo Does anyone have an ETA on the New Commencal meta? Or what ever it shall be named.

Spoken to Commencal Nz and they don’t know a date, but possibly end of the year… hope there’re wrong and it’s earlier!

meloncat
Posts
19
Joined
4/21/2022
Location
IT
5/1/2023 1:56am

20230430 172445

 Seen at the bike festival in riva del garda: nicolai nucleon 16 with classic derailleur, sadly with hadset cable routing...but given the huge customization possibilities of nicolai may an external or internal cable routing will be possible

6
sethimus
Posts
870
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
5/1/2023 2:34am
Primoz wrote:
That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No...

That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No cable actuation would mean a big chunk of the market would be left to Shimano, TRP, Box, upcoming Chinese manufacturers?

I don't think sram will be able to ignore the mass market, most of the money is made there. But I don't see all of the...

I don't think sram will be able to ignore the mass market, most of the money is made there. But I don't see all of the features of transmission trickle down to nx or sx. I don't think the bike manufacturers are willing to change all their bikes to UDH and therefore 12mm through axel. If you compare what shimano did with linkglide, offering really good shift performance and durability at the cost of weight. I think sram can still improve their lower priced groupsets alot without going "full transmission", by offering cable operated shifting,  only with improvements in chain /cassette design and better quality control. I don't think lower tier bikes will profit much from direct mount dérailleurs, which is the main selling point of transmission at the moment. I own a bike with the first generation gx Eagle and from day one, I was unable to make all gears work perfectly due to poor quality. So I doubt that a direct mount dérailleur would fix this issue.

how’s that gonna work with bikes with headset routed cables?

Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
5/1/2023 2:40am
Primoz wrote:
That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No...

That would mean a completely different set of price ranges offered by Sram. And would destroy their complete bike offerings in the lower price ranges. No cable actuation would mean a big chunk of the market would be left to Shimano, TRP, Box, upcoming Chinese manufacturers?

I don't think sram will be able to ignore the mass market, most of the money is made there. But I don't see all of the...

I don't think sram will be able to ignore the mass market, most of the money is made there. But I don't see all of the features of transmission trickle down to nx or sx. I don't think the bike manufacturers are willing to change all their bikes to UDH and therefore 12mm through axel. If you compare what shimano did with linkglide, offering really good shift performance and durability at the cost of weight. I think sram can still improve their lower priced groupsets alot without going "full transmission", by offering cable operated shifting,  only with improvements in chain /cassette design and better quality control. I don't think lower tier bikes will profit much from direct mount dérailleurs, which is the main selling point of transmission at the moment. I own a bike with the first generation gx Eagle and from day one, I was unable to make all gears work perfectly due to poor quality. So I doubt that a direct mount dérailleur would fix this issue.

Have you checked the straightness of the derailleur hanger? 

1
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
5/1/2023 2:45am Edited Date/Time 5/1/2023 2:48am
Personally don’t think SRAM’s current cable actuated group sets really need an update.  Would much rather have them invest in reducing prices for it than a...

Personally don’t think SRAM’s current cable actuated group sets really need an update.  Would much rather have them invest in reducing prices for it than a 1 percent increase in shift quality.

Maybe not the top end, but SX/NX Eagle really aren't remotely competitive with even Deore, much less SLX. As far as I know people generally only...

Maybe not the top end, but SX/NX Eagle really aren't remotely competitive with even Deore, much less SLX. As far as I know people generally only go for those if they don't have a HG+ hub body or if they prefer the Sram 'feel'. GX could at least use a refresh; I haven't heard of anything particularly 'wrong' with it but it's also been essentially the same for over five years.

While I don't have much experience with NX or SX (or even GX for that matter), comparing the X01 shifter to an XT shifter is a day and night difference. To me the ergonomics of a Shimano shifter can't get close to what Sram has in this comparison. It's jarring how different the XT shifter feels and shifts.

The cage lock feature is also something I miss every time when I need to take the rear wheel off a shimano equipped bike. 

But yeah, shifting performance & Co wise, you can't beat Shimano at the low end. 

6
jonkranked
Posts
1175
Joined
5/5/2016
Location
Norristown, PA US
5/1/2023 6:41am
meloncat wrote:
 Seen at the bike festival in riva del garda: nicolai nucleon 16 with classic derailleur, sadly with hadset cable routing...but given the huge customization possibilities of...

20230430 172445

 Seen at the bike festival in riva del garda: nicolai nucleon 16 with classic derailleur, sadly with hadset cable routing...but given the huge customization possibilities of nicolai may an external or internal cable routing will be possible

aside from trade shows and press, have any of their LAL bikes made it into the wild? 

1
5/1/2023 6:53am
jakeowens wrote:
 New GX cranks on Ben Cathros story - being built up onto Santa Cruz’s going for sale, meaning we can’t be far off the GX launch 

IMG 0565.png?VersionId=

 New GX cranks on Ben Cathros story - being built up onto Santa Cruz’s going for sale, meaning we can’t be far off the GX launch 

18LifeToGo wrote:
So XO's without the holes and a matte silver color, probably 600 - 650g's with ring. Main issue with GX is the length coming in at...

So XO's without the holes and a matte silver color, probably 600 - 650g's with ring. Main issue with GX is the length coming in at 170 or 175. Wonder if they were smart enough to offer shorter sizes? Probably not anything shorter than 165.  

GX cranks are currently offered in 165, would be nice to see shorter on the new ones though 

Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
5/1/2023 7:10am

Shorter than 165??

5/1/2023 7:59am

I don't see Transmission going below a GX level, I guess that goes without saying given that NX has been neglected for 5 odd years now? If SRAM can deliver current GX quality at an NX/SX price point they pose a serious threat to Shimano's Deore dominance at the lower end.

4
lloyd506
Posts
249
Joined
7/10/2016
Location
CA
5/1/2023 8:03am

Xo transmission derailleur had a clutch that actually works. Hopefully sram transfers that to the gx transmission unlike the non existent clutch on the gx axs 

3
5/1/2023 8:52am
lloyd506 wrote:

Xo transmission derailleur had a clutch that actually works. Hopefully sram transfers that to the gx transmission unlike the non existent clutch on the gx axs 

Assuming you can unscrew the cage just like X0/XX, even if the clutch is.. sub-optimal you could just replace it with something better, $100ish later.

BlazersDad89
Posts
18
Joined
3/5/2021
Location
San Diego, CA US
5/1/2023 6:04pm
kcy4130 wrote:
Interesting idea to try out lots of crank lengths. Crank strike potential only a bit worse than normal 175 arms. Idea is to rent them to...

Interesting idea to try out lots of crank lengths. Crank strike potential only a bit worse than normal 175 arms. Idea is to rent them to figure out what you like. 

image-20230501110522-1

https://www.applemanbicycles.com/shop/2xr-fit-crankset-rental/

 

These are really just meant for Bike Fitters who fit customers on stationary bikes. You won't see these or similar designs out in the wild under normal circumstances. 

2
1
5/1/2023 10:34pm
meloncat wrote:
 Seen at the bike festival in riva del garda: nicolai nucleon 16 with classic derailleur, sadly with hadset cable routing...but given the huge customization possibilities of...

20230430 172445

 Seen at the bike festival in riva del garda: nicolai nucleon 16 with classic derailleur, sadly with hadset cable routing...but given the huge customization possibilities of nicolai may an external or internal cable routing will be possible

jonkranked wrote:

aside from trade shows and press, have any of their LAL bikes made it into the wild? 

I've met their Enduro Team on the weekend. The bike is heavy but pedals better than anything I've ridden with similar weight (~ 18kg). Had no trail time, only uphill but no more chain drag than my Claymore. Really good pedal platform, even with the sloppy lockout from the DHX2. 

1
Primoz
Posts
4519
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
5/1/2023 11:16pm
kcy4130 wrote:
Interesting idea to try out lots of crank lengths. Crank strike potential only a bit worse than normal 175 arms. Idea is to rent them to...

Interesting idea to try out lots of crank lengths. Crank strike potential only a bit worse than normal 175 arms. Idea is to rent them to figure out what you like. 

image-20230501110522-1

https://www.applemanbicycles.com/shop/2xr-fit-crankset-rental/

 

These are really just meant for Bike Fitters who fit customers on stationary bikes. You won't see these or similar designs out in the wild under...

These are really just meant for Bike Fitters who fit customers on stationary bikes. You won't see these or similar designs out in the wild under normal circumstances. 

https://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewContent_nohf.asp?idpage=120

I'm sure these are made this way to only have one crank cover three lengths. Mold costs and all.

2
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

This forum thread has been locked.

The Latest