MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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jonkranked
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2/8/2023 7:35am
Is that Pivot actually made with lugs and carbon tubes, or is it just a deceiving paint job? The lower tube seems to be curved near...

Is that Pivot actually made with lugs and carbon tubes, or is it just a deceiving paint job? The lower tube seems to be curved near the headtube junction.

kcy4130 wrote:
If it is just a deceptive paint job: that is some next level trolling! Pretty smart way to get us all talking about it. Also you...

If it is just a deceptive paint job: that is some next level trolling! Pretty smart way to get us all talking about it. Also you can use custom curved carbon tubes with lugs, even if it partly defeats the purpose. I was thinking maybe they're chopping tubes from an existing model and lugging them, but the shape doesn't seem to match anything in their lineup. That top tube looks pretty thin, like it might not be a round cross section. 

it would also be easier (and cheaper) to get protos made with lugs and carbon tubes before having to commit to a full tooling

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motomike
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2/8/2023 8:49am

ADC4D92D-D849-4FBB-B0D7-24042E308507.jpeg?VersionId=3LCeya4IqXF2sPKTiyo7Z.Z7z m

 Very interesting headtube zone if this is in fact lugged.  

15
2/8/2023 8:55am

Is that a gearbox on the pivot?

I don't think so, based on how wide the chain gets around the rear axle, looks like it's going through a derailleur. 

6
Zuestman
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2/8/2023 8:57am
motomike wrote:
 Very interesting headtube zone if this is in fact lugged.  

ADC4D92D-D849-4FBB-B0D7-24042E308507.jpeg?VersionId=3LCeya4IqXF2sPKTiyo7Z.Z7z m

 Very interesting headtube zone if this is in fact lugged.  

looks like the old Six-13 road bikes from Cdale.  They would put an uncured carbon tube into an alum lug that had cutouts.  then inflate the bladder to get the tube to mold into the cutout.  would create a mechanical bond as well as the chemical bond from the glue. very interesting way of doing it and worked great for those road bike 18 or so years ago.

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Primoz
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2/8/2023 11:57am Edited Date/Time 2/8/2023 11:59am
kcy4130 wrote:
Thinking about it a bit more, if designed smartly and only one end of a tube is curved, then a single mold for a given tube...

Thinking about it a bit more, if designed smartly and only one end of a tube is curved, then a single mold for a given tube could be used for all sizes (with the other end cut to length for smaller sizes) And a tube shape also allows for use of automated pre preg tape laying instead of hand laid.

And a bent tube will move the 'inline' forces (pulling the tube and thus joints apart) effectively off-axis, potentially making the bonded joint stronger.

Also, if I was a betting man, I would bet against this being a standard DW link bike. Maybe DW6. It looks kinda Horst link to me (thus the DW6 caveat).

Primoz
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2/8/2023 12:03pm
motomike wrote:
 Very interesting headtube zone if this is in fact lugged.  

ADC4D92D-D849-4FBB-B0D7-24042E308507.jpeg?VersionId=3LCeya4IqXF2sPKTiyo7Z.Z7z m

 Very interesting headtube zone if this is in fact lugged.  

Zuestman wrote:
looks like the old Six-13 road bikes from Cdale.  They would put an uncured carbon tube into an alum lug that had cutouts.  then inflate the...

looks like the old Six-13 road bikes from Cdale.  They would put an uncured carbon tube into an alum lug that had cutouts.  then inflate the bladder to get the tube to mold into the cutout.  would create a mechanical bond as well as the chemical bond from the glue. very interesting way of doing it and worked great for those road bike 18 or so years ago.

GT did something similar with the STS, LTS and the Lobo. And even used thermoplastic resin instead of the epoxy mostly used these days (thermoplastic composites have much better recyclability).

2/8/2023 12:16pm

Is that a gearbox on the pivot?

Poleczechy wrote:

I don't think so, based on how wide the chain gets around the rear axle, looks like it's going through a derailleur. 

I was mostly wondering because the bottom bracket/seat tube area looks massive, even compared to most high-pivot bikes

motomike
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2/8/2023 12:29pm

The more I look at it it sure looks like a fully aluminum frame with a sneaky paint job.  Check out how the top tube is tapered and shaped.

6
lickmycrinkle
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2/8/2023 1:00pm
motomike wrote:
The more I look at it it sure looks like a fully aluminum frame with a sneaky paint job.  Check out how the top tube is...

The more I look at it it sure looks like a fully aluminum frame with a sneaky paint job.  Check out how the top tube is tapered and shaped.

My guess would just be vinyl wrapped alu. Didn't the Trek team in 2021 black out their top tubes on those candy metallic frames after the first few races? Top tube reflections could be a real problem on raw alu.

Primoz
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2/8/2023 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 2/8/2023 1:26pm

Top tube reflections might be a problem on a highly polished raw alu bike. Anything else will look as dull as a foggy morning when it comes to raw alu. Look at Neko's frames for example.

Plus, if you see your top tube, aren't you doing something wrong. Holding back too much or riding a bike 3 sizes too big? (not to mention the flashes from the photographers...) 

2
swadd1er
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2/8/2023 2:01pm

Do we know who's riding it or where its being ridden? 

Any other photos of it? 

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dylanjp006
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2/8/2023 2:19pm
swadd1er wrote:

Do we know who's riding it or where its being ridden? 

Any other photos of it? 

Being ridden in Queenstown nz

2/8/2023 3:07pm Edited Date/Time 2/8/2023 3:09pm

I was mostly wondering because the bottom bracket/seat tube area looks massive, even compared to most high-pivot bikes

Given the chain angle coming from the chain-ring area...

I think they are not using that upper sprocket as an idler pulley, but rather as a drive sprocket.  Thus, either is IS a gearbox (unlikely due to chain angle towards rear wheel) or some sort of one-to-one gearbox (a drive-extender?).

What I WANT it to be is a gearbox bike with a redundant cassette on the rear wheel to throw people off. 

 

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Uncle Cliffy
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2/8/2023 3:16pm

I was mostly wondering because the bottom bracket/seat tube area looks massive, even compared to most high-pivot bikes

Given the chain angle coming from the chain-ring area... I think they are not using that upper sprocket as an idler pulley, but rather as a...

Given the chain angle coming from the chain-ring area...

I think they are not using that upper sprocket as an idler pulley, but rather as a drive sprocket.  Thus, either is IS a gearbox (unlikely due to chain angle towards rear wheel) or some sort of one-to-one gearbox (a drive-extender?).

What I WANT it to be is a gearbox bike with a redundant cassette on the rear wheel to throw people off. 

 

39F7B607-2BE7-4182-8537-128E08B4169E

Here’s a photo of DW’s high pivot patent design. Not a gearbox…

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2/8/2023 3:32pm Edited Date/Time 2/8/2023 4:10pm
Here’s a photo of DW’s high pivot patent design. Not a gearbox…

39F7B607-2BE7-4182-8537-128E08B4169E

Here’s a photo of DW’s high pivot patent design. Not a gearbox…

It is definitely exactly that, thanks for including the image

I am the example of someone who should have read the last page or two of the thread before posting

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TEAMROBOT
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2/8/2023 3:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/8/2023 3:55pm

One of the benefits of the new DW patent that I haven't heard mentioned yet is the super small front chain ring. Because the gearing steps down twice (from the first drivetrain to the second), the bike can get away with a really small chainring and a ton of ground clearance while still having the same final drive ratio.

I was on a ride on Friday where I dragged my bashguard 4-5 different times. Would not mind more ground clearance.

9
brash
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2/8/2023 3:57pm

taking bets on when that photo will be ripped and used on the other site..... 1 day, 2 days....

 

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Big Bird
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2/8/2023 4:02pm

My first suspension bike was an XL polished Heckler and top tube glare was NEVER an issue.

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krabo83
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2/9/2023 12:05am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2023 12:14am
brash wrote:

taking bets on when that photo will be ripped and used on the other site..... 1 day, 2 days....

 

since some in here love to sh* on pinkbike that all they do is steal from this thread, check out their newest post, new ibis enduro proto.

haven‘t seen it in here yet Wink

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7
FullSend
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2/9/2023 3:19am
brash wrote:

taking bets on when that photo will be ripped and used on the other site..... 1 day, 2 days....

 

Funny, how it's totally ok when people post stuff in here that has first been reported by PB (or posted on the PB forums), but if PB reports something that was here first it's them "stealing" content. It's not like it's yours anyways, so why would you even care...

10
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FullSend
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2/9/2023 3:21am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2023 3:23am

https://raawmtb.com/de/pages/yalla

cover

New RAAW DH Bike!

Edit: damn. iceman2058 beat me to it.

 

7
Primoz
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2/9/2023 3:37am
brash wrote:

taking bets on when that photo will be ripped and used on the other site..... 1 day, 2 days....

 

krabo83 wrote:
since some in here love to sh* on pinkbike that all they do is steal from this thread, check out their newest post, new ibis enduro...

since some in here love to sh* on pinkbike that all they do is steal from this thread, check out their newest post, new ibis enduro proto.

haven‘t seen it in here yet Wink

Not important apparently 😜

2
sspomer
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2/9/2023 6:57am

here's 30 mins of details about the RAAW yalla

 

 

8
2/9/2023 7:51am

Full 29 only even for the M sized frame is a bit questionable IMO, but I guess their shorter riders did not have any troubles with it. Nothing crazy going on geometry wise with competitive modern numbers, although I'd like for brands to go with a 460 mm base reach for M frame (based on my experience as a medium sized person at 175 cm tall on a M Canyon sender which feels like it was tailored made reach-wise). 

1
2/9/2023 8:36am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
One of the benefits of the new DW patent that I haven't heard mentioned yet is the super small front chain ring. Because the gearing steps...

One of the benefits of the new DW patent that I haven't heard mentioned yet is the super small front chain ring. Because the gearing steps down twice (from the first drivetrain to the second), the bike can get away with a really small chainring and a ton of ground clearance while still having the same final drive ratio.

I was on a ride on Friday where I dragged my bashguard 4-5 different times. Would not mind more ground clearance.

Cannondale had the non-high pivot version back in 1998.

p4pb7828054

 Supposedly the main advantages and design goals for the new DW patent is for the dreaded e-bike. Seeing how Pivot has a huge boner for e-bikes these days, this is likely just testing the concept and it will be plugged into a bike with a motor, not a DH bike....Sad

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2
FullSend
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2/9/2023 9:39am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2023 9:40am
Full 29 only even for the M sized frame is a bit questionable IMO, but I guess their shorter riders did not have any troubles with...

Full 29 only even for the M sized frame is a bit questionable IMO, but I guess their shorter riders did not have any troubles with it. Nothing crazy going on geometry wise with competitive modern numbers, although I'd like for brands to go with a 460 mm base reach for M frame (based on my experience as a medium sized person at 175 cm tall on a M Canyon sender which feels like it was tailored made reach-wise). 

At least it's very adjustable.

But I'm glad the geometry is the way it is. There's surprisingly little choice for tall people like me, who wants 500 mm of reach at the very least.

1
FullSend
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2/9/2023 9:42am
sspomer wrote:
here's 30 mins of details about the RAAW yalla    

here's 30 mins of details about the RAAW yalla

 

 

Fantastic. I could listen to Dan Roberts talking nerdy all day.

4
2/9/2023 10:06am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
One of the benefits of the new DW patent that I haven't heard mentioned yet is the super small front chain ring. Because the gearing steps...

One of the benefits of the new DW patent that I haven't heard mentioned yet is the super small front chain ring. Because the gearing steps down twice (from the first drivetrain to the second), the bike can get away with a really small chainring and a ton of ground clearance while still having the same final drive ratio.

I was on a ride on Friday where I dragged my bashguard 4-5 different times. Would not mind more ground clearance.

More ground clearance? Sounds like a perfect job for IMBA, not bike engineers.

filtering-soil

16
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PisgahGnar
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2/9/2023 10:07am
Full 29 only even for the M sized frame is a bit questionable IMO, but I guess their shorter riders did not have any troubles with...

Full 29 only even for the M sized frame is a bit questionable IMO, but I guess their shorter riders did not have any troubles with it. Nothing crazy going on geometry wise with competitive modern numbers, although I'd like for brands to go with a 460 mm base reach for M frame (based on my experience as a medium sized person at 175 cm tall on a M Canyon sender which feels like it was tailored made reach-wise). 

It is the same size as my medium Madonna, and I would say the full 29 is excellent. I'm not a small person, I am decidedly "medium" at 177cm which is the low end of the large, high end of the medium Madonna recommendations. I feel like it is very well balanced, I don't buzz myself except on the steepest drop ins, and it turns incredibly well. 

PisgahGnar
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2/9/2023 10:14am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2023 10:15am
brash wrote:

taking bets on when that photo will be ripped and used on the other site..... 1 day, 2 days....

 

krabo83 wrote:
since some in here love to sh* on pinkbike that all they do is steal from this thread, check out their newest post, new ibis enduro...

since some in here love to sh* on pinkbike that all they do is steal from this thread, check out their newest post, new ibis enduro proto.

haven‘t seen it in here yet Wink

Because Ibis sent them the photo after the DV9 release flopped. 

 

Take a look at their newest newest post. Two week old spy video of Jack Moir riding the new rockshox vivid air. 

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